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Are Other Breeders Ripping Off RSC?

brickweeder

Well-known member
I've been noticing an increasing number of breeders that are offering landrace seeds that sound exactly like the RSC offerings. Not only are the names the same, even the sources are the same. It looks to me like breeders are buying RSC packs, doing a bit of selective pollen chucking, then offering up those seeds.

If you have noticed this too, or if you have had discussions with breeders on this topic, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Personally, I think breeders are ripping off RSC by taking their genetics and doing their own reproductions, but I have nothing to base this on except what seems to be obvious to me. I hope to have better information come out on this than just what I think at the moment. Appreciate any input you have to offer.
 

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
Until Somebody genetically modifies a plant, then everybody found their mums somewhere. Nobody actually made them. It's just lots of selective breeding, or non at all, depending on your goals. When breeders move from camp to camp, they often take their creations but might not be able to keep the name. Sometimes joint creations are made, then sold by quite different companies. It's really quite common to buy the same beans sold under completely different names, not just similar one's. On some levels, it's real tax paying business, that operates as such. But it's also a black market economy, where criminals are drawn. Everyone knows their beans will be pirated. The trick is finding the new thing. Then letting us all know.
 

Sign

Member
It's nice when they mention the lineage, especially for mazar I Sharif since the name covers multiple distinctly difference strains with vastly different growth habits. But meh, I don't really care otherwise.

The world's getting too crazy with copyright, intellectual content etc laws. And besides, I don't think there are actually many breeders that do more than take two great plants or even one great clone cross em and bag up the seeds.

And does it even matter? As long as they are truthful in the pictures and general description it's going to be weed and it's going to be good.

99% of the retail market is hype imo, people that have something soooo special. They're right of course but I doubt it's objectively any better than anything else with similar attributes.
 

axle2u

Member
I've been noticing an increasing number of breeders that are offering landrace seeds that sound exactly like the RSC offerings. Not only are the names the same, even the sources are the same. It looks to me like breeders are buying RSC packs, doing a bit of selective pollen chucking, then offering up those seeds.

If you have noticed this too, or if you have had discussions with breeders on this topic, what are your thoughts on the matter?

Personally, I think breeders are ripping off RSC by taking their genetics and doing their own reproductions, but I have nothing to base this on except what seems to be obvious to me. I hope to have better information come out on this than just what I think at the moment. Appreciate any input you have to offer.



hey good for you bro.....good points
and definatley good questions to put forth...


good call...


-axle
 

herbgreen

Active member
Veteran
It would be hard to really 'rip off' or 'knock off' Real Seed Company varieties

Because they are most often point of origin straight from farmers

Angus encourages reproduction in pure form

As far as taking that and selling it? Would be hard to compete with RSC point of origin seeds

Angus can weigh in and express how he feels about it

I know exactly what you mean about the knock offs but anyone who as any awareness what so ever can see the difference :biggrin:




.
 

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
RSC are not breeding the seed dont they just collect seed from set farmers in set locations and act as the middle man as the retailer ?.


Their are a few company's now offering heirloom / land races from Farmers from set country's acting as middle men there should be more doing it from more locations as that is how these strains get preserved.
 

MD84

Active member
Is there any variety in the RSC catalogue that they've worked/bred themselves? As others have said, these guys don't own the 'Nepalese' landrace or Mazar strains. These are owned by the farmers that preserve them in those areas so you can't rip them off in that sense. They're also out of stock everytime i look so anyone else providing similar varieties is welcome in my book. Especially if they work the line properly and take it in another direction...
 

Cvh

Well-known member
Supermod
Copying seeds is been the norm ever since. I can still remember some strains getting released and then a few years later every seedbank offering their version of it. Just take White Widow for example.

RSC doesn't own any of these strains they offer, these are either landraces/heirlooms and/or reproduction done by third party western persons.

As also posted before, I also think it's a good thing that more companies are doing there own decent selection in pure form and offering them for sale. It gives these strains a backup.

To many pure genetics are already lost, it's not acceptable that some kind of Western company would be the only one allowed to sell these landrace/heirloom seeds.

We all know RSC doesn't do their shopping from other seed companies their catalogues. So RSC will be considered authentic, while other seed companies not. But it's also good to have a backup for seed orders when RSC is sold out.

I would really like to see more companies doing seedhunting expeditions and bringing back more pure genetics to the general public.
 

mr.brunch

Well-known member
Veteran
Maybe the other companies are buying wholesale from rsc and repacking/reselling?
Just a thought
 

mexcurandero420

See the world through a puff of smoke
Veteran
As long as the actual farmers get a fair price for the landrace varieties, there is nothing wrong with it.

You always get when a company starts something totally new, in this case offering landrace varieties, that other companies follow and do the same thing.A bit of competition is nothing wrong with it.
 

imakandi

Member
hoarding genes is monsanto construction evil

genetic work is paid
with money
afterwork cannot be forbidden
is monsanto way
 

SUPER_HAZE

Active member
People have been interested in local varieties for some years.

This attracts many people for the money. I also believe that many varieties for sale are reproductions of trsc. Others are from the same source in origin. And others will be collected by themselves.
You never know why people are not usually sincere in this business.

I only knew trsc before, now this cocogenes, khalifa, Afghan selection, Indian landrace, team landrace and many others, also on instagram.
Personally trsc is the one that gives me the most confidence. For the knowledge of history and plants, antiquity selling seeds, sincerity and fair price.

If I am interested in a variety and trsc has it, I prefer to buy it there. If others have a variety that interests me and seems authentic, I buy it.

I have about 30 pure varieties in the freezer.:tiphat:
 

brickweeder

Well-known member
Lots of good points to consider. I saw the siberian rudi being offered by a prominent non-rsc breeder with the same source as RSC, so it may be very well that the farmers and OG seed collectors are using numerous avenues to distribute their genetics. I just haven't seen any evidence of this, but I am willing to give other breeders the benefit of the doubt, especially if what they are offering are non-selected open pollination seeds.

Personally, I'd rather purchase seeds as close to the original farmer/landrace as possible, rather than a worked or preselected line, because I'd like the opportunity to experience a high as close to the native condition as possible and to do my own selections form a diverse base rather than working from someone else's selections. That's why I'd now choose RSC over any other breeder if RSC has what I want.

I still suspect that other breeders, in jumping on the landrace band wagon, are reproducing RCS genetics to increase their market share, but hey, that's business.
 
I myself was beginning to grow suspicious of this, I personally believe that sometimes it's totally cool to do this. But I also believe in credit due to the source.

When it comes to making your own hybrids and crosses using basically raw genetics and un-earthing phenotypes to your own preference to reproduce with, I also believe this is acceptable.

The bottom line is, it's nice to give credit where credit is due, especially in the landrace scene.

You aren't going to see people going around giving credit to whoever the fuck made sour diesel or OG kush or fucking Gelato lol.. but yeah, I do think there could be someone ripping RSC genetics and being kind of shady. I actually mentioned this to Angus recently with someone I have become suspicious of. But hey, fuck em all! The Real Seed Company is pretty much one of few places I trust to source reliable, and honest seeds, he always says the source, and always let's you know if there's a chance of modern hybrid contamination or not. The Real Seed Company is THE REAL DEAL!
 

MD84

Active member
I myself was beginning to grow suspicious of this, I personally believe that sometimes it's totally cool to do this. But I also believe in credit due to the source.

When it comes to making your own hybrids and crosses using basically raw genetics and un-earthing phenotypes to your own preference to reproduce with, I also believe this is acceptable.

The bottom line is, it's nice to give credit where credit is due, especially in the landrace scene.

You aren't going to see people going around giving credit to whoever the fuck made sour diesel or OG kush or fucking Gelato lol.. but yeah, I do think there could be someone ripping RSC genetics and being kind of shady. I actually mentioned this to Angus recently with someone I have become suspicious of. But hey, fuck em all! The Real Seed Company is pretty much one of few places I trust to source reliable, and honest seeds, he always says the source, and always let's you know if there's a chance of modern hybrid contamination or not. The Real Seed Company is THE REAL DEAL!


I'd have to disagree. Working 'unstable' lines like Sour D into stable seed varieties is alot of work and people like Karma and Rez always got alot of love for doing it iirc.
 

White Beard

Active member
Until Somebody genetically modifies a plant, then everybody found their mums somewhere. Nobody actually made them. It's just lots of selective breeding, or non at all, depending on your goals. When breeders move from camp to camp, they often take their creations but might not be able to keep the name. Sometimes joint creations are made, then sold by quite different companies. It's really quite common to buy the same beans sold under completely different names, not just similar one's. On some levels, it's real tax paying business, that operates as such. But it's also a black market economy, where criminals are drawn. Everyone knows their beans will be pirated. The trick is finding the new thing. Then letting us all know.
It’s as common and ordinary as any other “business practice” in a capitalist economy: reselling others’ work, often for a higher price - and often with self-important marketing. It is, as they say, what it is.

I'd have to disagree. Working 'unstable' lines like Sour D into stable seed varieties is alot of work and people like Karma and Rez always got alot of love for doing it iirc.

The difference is between fieldwork and lab work: more people doing lab work, and those who do it well get credit. Fewer people doing real fieldwork = less credit to go around, and the difference between good work and lazy work may or may not be more apparent.
 

Hammerhead

Disabled Farmer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
If a breeder is just copying others work I don't see how this would be good for any breeder. If they are just trying to make $$ only you as the consumer can put a dent in those plans. IMO whats sets us apart is the work we do on our own lines and the quality our seeds produce. Everything should be 100% exclusive that no one could re produce without using a breeders selected breeding stock. IMO all breeders should use this method. There is nothing wrong with using other breeders seeds, we all do. None should be making copies or reproduce same crosses made by another. Most if not all of us OG would ever do that. If you are reproducing/Copying others work I don't support that. The only way to stop practices like this is with your wallet. It will never stop while the money keeps flowing in to these people. Spend your money with someone that respects the hard work some of use put into our lines.
 
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Guys please don't be hypocrites! RSC is doing the same thing! Nobody is innocent in this dirty canna business!

Check here if you don't believe me:
You are beating around the bush... but it's good that you admitting publicly that you are commercializing with "smuggled" genetic material from such an institution without consentment or their aproval. From collecting local landraces to pure biopiracy in order to get the bussiness going... that's a big change indeed.

Are you really conscious of what a Standard Material Transfer Agreement is and implies? Because the IPK, just like any gene bank, makes sure everyone signs one before they receive any material from them. I know from first hand because I've received vegetable seeds from the Gatersleben in the past and had correspondence with other gene bank curators because of some research. This is how true genetic preservation institutions work and operate on a legal basis.

The funny thing is that I know the biologist who was a member here and originally applied to order the seeds, allegedly for a research, and ended sharing them out without much control and realizing about the fact that, once you accept material, there is a contract to attend and legal implications involved, as well as making sure any other recipients accept those too. Ignoring it doesn't mean it doesn't exist:

https://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/file...pk-ressourcen/Download/Gene_Bank_SMTA_IPK.pdf

Biopiracy isn't definitely something to be proud of, cashing on the work of genuine plant institutions and researchers who devote their careers to that, knowing how often the gene banks lack the resources and support for the important job they are doing. I wonder if you are planning to support them financially with your benefits? Because anyone commercializing with material obtained from them will be attained to give a monetary compensation as stated on the SMTA.

Even Monsanto was accused about this when they wanted to patent and sell a tomato accession they’ve obtained from the Gatersleben illegitimatelly as well:

https://sustainablepulse.com/2014/06/02/monsanto-slammed-fraudulent-eu-patent-non-gmo-tomatoes/

https://www.no-patents-on-seeds.org/en/node/298

Last but not least, people should realize that this kind of practices is nothing but just detrimental for the researchers or breeders who may want to have legitimate access to material from gene banks in the future. Such practices just show a huge lack of ethics and respect for such institutions and professionals.

I think some people are going too far nowadays with their lack of principles…to be honest I don't even know if it's just mere ignorance, irresponsability or pure greedyness. As I've said, It's quite sad to see how people are just using preservation as a marketing gimmick to get a seed bussiness going.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=8590046#post8590046
 
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