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Old 10-08-2010, 09:52 PM #41
redspaghetti
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I do believe Vertical is the way to go if you're not growing out door

Everyday i try and try to convince people to give vert a go but it seem like majority still love them hoods, think like you about to start all over again but this time your yield will increase in a shorter time vs using the hood.

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Old 10-08-2010, 10:00 PM #42
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Thanks Red! I'm always trying to convert folks! Vertical is the way.


I just edited the V-SCROG section to be more relevant to how folks are doing things now. I believe I have rewritten every section now, except the commercial unit section. It's next.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:17 PM #43
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here's something i noticed , from my 6k vert thread..

when stacking cooltubes:


"i have been having issues with the stacked suntubes falling. the heat from the lights melted some of the glue and they slipped a bit, plus the neoprene collars that hold the tubes together have slipped a couple times. i rigged everything with twine so it is secure but the rooms are too overgrown to re-do the lights at this point. lesson learned."
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Old 10-10-2010, 04:57 AM #44
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Schrews:
The folks at Octagon Hydroponics offer their own made for verticals cooltube system that should be superior to using regular cooltubes. Check it out:

Here's the link:
https://www.octagonhydroponics.com/gr...l-systems.html
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Old 10-10-2010, 11:21 PM #45
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Those veritubes are nice and have been around for a while MGT.......They were more expensive when they came out than their prices now , but still.......$1000 for 3 or 4 light setup`s insane IMO.....without bulbs and ballasts as well........PLUS the equipment to vent/cool em with......So......with decent ballasts , bulbs , and exhaust fans with ducting , you`re lookin at in the neighborhood of 2250-2500 bucks before startup just for lights...again.....insane..... ..but....... I`m a tightass and a DIY`er....These things are perfect for guys with deep pockets and lil grow knowledge........or they would`nt exist......

The 3 light 1000 watter is $765 , and the 4 light`s 899 PLUS shipping and comes with the socket boxes inside the tubes and that`s it.......You`re still gonna have all 3 cordsets hangin out of the units on 3 or 4 levels for something to be done with em ta get em out of the plants/lights way ......

I had 3 outlet boxes with blank covers and mogul sockets for the cordsets , and had jackchain from ceiling to floor on 2 sides of the bare bulbs mounted to the outlet boxes on top of each other ta hold em up and in place with the cordset wires ziptied to the jackchain on 1 side , run up and across the ceilings then out of the rooms with ballasts on the outsides ......

Muffin fan directly underneath the 3-600`s creating a "column of air" with exhaust scrubber combo above suckin heat and stank outta the rooms twice per minute.......A/C`s did kick on a lil bit in deep summer ,but not much.......

Bare bulbs rule .......with wall fans blowin in all opposite corners above and below the plants creating a vortex of circulating air , ambient temps rarely got over 78-82 degrees lights on..........A/C`s were set ta come on at 85 ........

Lumenloss in cooltubes(or for that matter ANY air-cooled reflector) has been documented for yrs , and try and clean them bitches on a regular cycle basis to keep as much light as possible gettin thru to the plants......

If you can`t keep bare bulbs cool with a dialed environment , you`re doin somethin wrong.........Fuckabuncha glass enclosures IME......

Never understood why Doubled`s used them thangs hangin all down and across his rooms in the first place other than not runnin adequate A/C......Cheapin out on controlled environment and losin light from cooltubes even if yas live in Canada where it`s cool most of the yr is wrong IMO ..........

All that shit hangin down and around all the plants connected with ductwork just absorbed and stole light that should`ve been intended for the plants.........

Seen Krusty run warehouses full of bare bulbs in Canada , CO2 with adequate A/C and air circulation for the win and every plant 3 lbs and over....btw .Big plants like Doubled`s G-13 and Krusty`s BC Big Bud are genetic for the most part......some will get that big in reasonable time.........most won`t without major vegtime.....

50/50 hybrids are best cuz it takes more indica dominant plants longer to get to the same size vegwise , and then once the lights are flipped there`s little to no stretch as to where our krusty plants always doubled and tripled in height as well as width through 4th week in flower.........then they backed up , stopped buildin rootmass and foliage and started the swellage process........

Small plants with increased plant numbers is the way for yield , butchas gotta be a criminal ta do it......Lotta tradeoffs and reasons for growin big plants and only a few of em , or growin buncha budsicles in the same sq/cu ftg with intolerable plant numbers for legal grows.......

Heathie`s setups run over 2gpw`s cuz of increased plant numbers around minimal light.......ain`t rocket science.....Plant numbers dictate yield.......period.........

No veg straight from rooted cut and flipped will win the race every time , butchas gotta pack em in as tight as yas can without em competin for light or environment.......

His first vertical rack setup did 1.53 gpw`s with 2-600s and well over 80 plants in a 4 x 6 area with 6.5' ceilings........

Many waysta skin a mule........cooltubes not required......Use em if yas got more light and heat than your a/c and airflow can control , but IME the environment should take care of itself without addin more equipment and power draw on the panel , but that`s just me......I live in Hell........

Peace......DHF.......... ..

Last edited by DHF; 05-24-2011 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:38 AM #46
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DHF I feel you. I don't understand why DoubleD's took what was a simple efficient system(Heath's tree setup), and made it into an overly expensive way overbuilt thing with cooltubes, CO2, chillers and air pumps as mandatory. Maybe he owns a hydro shop lol.

I fully agree people should be running these vertical bulbs bare. I plan to run my bulbs bare, but I understand some folks just won't do it, or can't in really tight spaces. Cooltubes work, but if someone is having problems with the standard cooltubes they could just get the individual meant for vertical cooltube section from octagon, and build the rest themselves. They are certainly charging way too much for that vertical cooltube system, but the component price for one tube isn't too bad. Excellent point about cleaning. If you want your tube to rob you of the least lumens possible, you better keep it sparkling clean! Inside and out! Or just don't run them.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:45 AM #47
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DHF:
How did you go about implementing the AC and normal ventilation side by side. At 2 exchanges per minute, it seems like any work an AC unit did would be out the door as quick as it was made. I have been thinking alot about this, since in my climate the AC is only necessary 3 moths of the year, so long as I can utilize outside air the rest of the time. I'm just interested how you made the two systems work together without fighting each other. I want to go growtronix with my rooms eventually(which will make this really easy to implement), but I wont be able to do that until after my 2nd tree harvest. Interested in hearing your ideas for the meantime...
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:18 AM #48
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MGT..........I always said that Doubled`s setup was an accident waiting to happen over at HG , but it could be done with dialage.....He learned from Heath and hounded his ass for months till it was dialed and then HG went down......... but......

Outta nowhere at the farm awhile later here comes Doubled`s with a "new setup" and his own "sub-forum" after Heath gettin banned .......Smelled like Heath`s Aquafarm "high flow" RDWC in bigger bottom containers with larger drainpipe but I digress.....

It was still a high maintenance setup like krusty buckets , just different with bigger bottom containers with quick disconnect fittings Doubled`s said needed to be impemented for fast takedown and re-install to the next location for mobility and re-setup ........then.........all of a sudden outta nowhere........He`s a medical caregiver and provider with all the expensive equipment needed for the previous setups seeming redundant......

Where is he as we speak , and why ain`t the souped up setup on the market 6 months ago as was told last yr .........

Ya`ll don`t take no wooden nickels here on the interwebs , but rather learn howta build yer own shit............

Peace.....DHF.......

Edit: MGT.......I had lung rooms where all the air got recirculated back into the grow areas........IOW.......built a 32 ' wall across the basement walls and then put the flip rooms inside/behind that......2 rooms around 8 x8 inside an area of like 12 by 32 +/-.......easier to control the climate in the lung rooms without heat from the lights affecting the air and let it be constantly circulated into and out of the rooms .......major extraction twice per minute took care of the environment.....Just a clone/mom/pre-veg cab in the rest of the area outside the flip rooms........

Sorry I didn`t make that clear since exhausting conditioned air would seem to defeat the purpose huh ?........still had dehuey`s on humidistat`s , and a/c`s on thermostats with auto restart should power outages occur inside the rooms for guaranteed dialed conditions in deep summer when power consumption`s so high and brownouts occur out of nowhere..................
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:41 AM #49
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Very informative. A+ for this thread.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:38 AM #50
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Nice thread. Never done vert, but I do have a question..

While looking at this pattern of a 4 plant grow:

xox
oxo
xox

the thought came to mind.. If you drew lines through this (like a tic tac toe board)..

x I 0 I x
--I--I--
0 I x I 0
--I--I--
x I 0 I x

and then counted the the sides of the plant on each line that was in contact with direct light the sum would be 12..

If you used this configuration:

0 I x I 0
--I--I--
x I 0 I x
--I--I--
0 I x I 0

the sum would also be 12. I am completely non-vert-savvy, but is there any reason to think the outcome would not be the same using four lights instead of five?
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