Should more attention be paid to quality drivers?

-MeanWell
-Recom
-Qualtek
-Cincon
-Dialight
-TDK Λ
-CUI
-Excelsys
-PhihongUSA
-Thomas Research
-Triad Magnetics
-TE Connectivity
-Rohm Semiconductor
-Panduit
-Condor
-Magniflood
-Artesyn

..... some of the high quality led driver manufacturers ...

Yes ,of course ...
And
-Harvard Engineering ...
(truly one of the best

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I always end up choosing inventronics. They have the wattages, currents, volt ranges...huge selection. Havent had a hiccup

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in the design of the lamp and control box ... should be taken into account not only the temperature of the LEDs but also the control box too.. and other things...temp and working condition...hours of continuous operation...etc...for my pov

on finished products... modify or tune...be carefull

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Regarding the topic of driver quality, I use dozens of cheapo drivers and so far they have given me no reason to pay more for meanwell. They match the efficiency and performance of the meanwells, but you do have to check to see what current they actually put out once they are warmed up. I got a batch of 900mA drivers that were all putting out 700mA, must be mislabeled. I have a few 1.6A drivers that put out 1.2A.

I have got a few bad drivers over the years, but the seller replaced them. In my experience they either work or they dont and you know it right away, no nasty surprises down the road.

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About 'nasty suprises' and cheap led drivers' ....
I'll tell you a short story about ...
(Believe it or not ......)

It came to my understanding that except for the extra bucks that a 'brand' label probably costs..
Also in quality/branded electronic equip ,some extra bucks are paid for the certifications ...
(And of course the extra circuitry needed to have those certifications) *
Now...
How's this has any importance / relevance ?

Well...
As we growers evolve our equipment and tech ..
( HPS=> LED ) ...
So does the 'other side' ...
For example...(In fact a real-life example...)

A grow-pal of mine was 'raided' ,not long ago ...
He was not using HPS/ MH but leds ...
Driven by cheap Constant Current drivers ...
Which by the way ,they are all 'Switching power supplies "..
Now..
It might seem weird or even may sound as BS ...
Well ain't (from what it seems,at least )...

He asked his arrestors ,how they discover his grow-op ....

Get ready ,now ....

-"We were notified by the electricity company ..."

!!!!

-'In what way you're notified ? I just had 400 W of leds going on ! "

Only to get the astonishing answer :

"They said that the EMI or something like that,coming from your house was causing trouble in their systems ..
So ,they called us to have it checked ... "

(The el.company actually had personel ,to trace back the EMI that was 'kicking back' in the AC line and they traced the 'EMI signature' all the way to my pal's home ...)

Are those cheap drivers EMI certified ?

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Advantages and disadvantages

The main advantage of the switching power supply is greater efficiency because the switching transistor dissipates little power when acting as a switch. Other advantages include smaller size and lighter weight from the elimination of heavy line-frequency transformers, and lower heat generation due to higher efficiency. Disadvantages include greater complexity, the generation of high-amplitude, high-frequency energy that the low-pass filter must block to avoid electromagnetic interference (EMI), a ripple voltage at the switching frequency and the harmonic frequencies thereof.

Very low cost SMPSs may couple electrical switching noise back onto the mains power line, causing interference with A/V equipment connected to the same phase. Non-power-factor-corrected SMPSs also cause harmonic distortion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply

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..And that ,I guess ,explains my latest 'EMI obsession '...
From the moment I was told that thing I can't sleep...

I mean ....

From now on ,all my DIY led designs will be incorporating EMI filtered AC sockets,
HPF / EMI certified CC or CV switching psu's ..
Even my custom Switching voltage regulators have EMI LC filters ...

Maybe I'm overreacting ..
You never know ...

Except electricity providers ,others might 'notify ' for EMI also...
Cable/Sat TV providers,Radio/TV stations,RF amateurs /enthousiasts,all-day-TV-watching neighbours ,audio -hi-end freaks (also neighbours ) ,etc

Maybe it's just an obsession and nothing more than that ...
But...
Better safe than sorry ...

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If there is radio spectrum pollution there is a chance that it will be investigated, especially if it's in the aircraft band or if ppl complain about it. The cheapo drivers I have interfer like mad on FM radio. Even a battery operated radio, so with no AC coupling. I'm sure that with a directional antenna this can be picked up and traced from miles away. Likely these cheapos are not even allowed on the European market. What the Ebay sellers do is to put fake CE stickers everywhere just to get it through customs.

I noticed that the cheapos from Supra have an induction coil near the output so perhaps those are better behaving.

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Usually the LC output 'ripple' filters are close to the output ,no mattter if an AC/DC or a DC/DC driver...
And they are relatively small in size ...
But it would be wrong to judge by it's physical size ....

As it could be a 'series' of LC filters to cover (filter out ) a wider 'band' of ripple noise ..
And the last could be kinda 'bulky'....

But in case of DC/DC drivers then a kinda sized inductor/coil at the output ,could be actually the switching inductor itself ...

( In AC/DC drivers the swithing is done at the AC side ..There you've plenty of EMI 'kicking back ' in the AC line ...
There the filtering has to be in the AC input ,if any ....)

In case of a DC/DC without filtering at the output ....
Specially if Vo of the drivers if high ....
( And if case is made of aluminium,things will get (way)worse ...)
And if long output wires are used even worse ...
And if you live on top floors ,even worse ..
And ..
And ...
Then except from EMI ..You might have plenty of RFI...
(from couple of KHz only -if you're lucky....Till harmonic distortions that reach the MHz or even the GHz range ..(<=Then you're probably ....F ....ed .... )
(generated from switching DC voltages/ current ....)
Which is WORSE !!!
( for all the reasons you-correctly- mentioned ...You might be 'trespassing' in 'fields' that you shouldn't (by any means ! )

Yes,usually (99%) of the 'certifications' coming from 'non-trusted/no-name/whoknows brands ,are
imaginary ...Just for the 'show' ....
(Normally) Forbidden in EU ...

(Guod,am I right ? You know way better than me ,that's for sure ... )

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Is there a material the average stoner can add to their grow room to limit EM interference? Hmmmm,m.Yes ....I think there is ..Covering the space with grounded alum foil will do plenty ...I think .Guod ,help! Does mylar have any effect on EMI/RF radiation? I think so,I'm not sure if it is amplifying or suppressing ,though ...Any attenuation/interference at all? <=Answered? ..

Can some material be used as a Faraday cage on grow tents or LED rigs?
Yes ! If the building has a steel frame,it is a Faraday cage by itself..(or acts like one )
Covering everything with grounded alum foil ,is way easier than building an actual Faraday Cage to cover the grow space..(except of small grow spaces like cabinets or small tents ...
Then I think that perforated steel angle system ...Shit ,what's the name (stoner..shit)...
You know the one you use to make storage shelves ...Grey in color ,usually ...
That thing ,might become handy I think ....

fOUND IT !

DEXION !
http://www.google.gr/search?q=dexio...Qaz44GYBA&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=893

People used to build Faraday mods on computer add-on cards back in the day to limit interference, like when you had a SCSI card next to a sound card and you'd do anything to stop the sound card from making popping and clicking sounds and sometimes the Faraday worked. Just a thought.

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-C10 :
Electrolytic (1.5x Vo max of driver ) 105° 100uF (more expensive option)
or Ceramic 250/600V 100uF (marked with 104 ) (cheaper option)
or
MKT/MKC /MKP (metal film polyester /polycarbonate/polypropylene) (from worst to best choise )
2x Vo max ,100uF (can be cheap or not so cheap )

L4 : 20-22 uH inductor
(way easy to salvage from many old/broken/thrown electronic equipment ,
most common,small sized ,marked ' 20 ' or '22' ,usually epoxied or enclosed/encapsulated )

Google for pics to get some ideas about the looks of the parts ,in case you do not know ...
(I do not know your exact skills in electronics,bro...Please excuse my ignorance )

Ripple output noise will be reduced 10x ....
@~50kHz ...Switching frequency ...-(Covers most /a wide range of cheap switching ICs...)

(For better filtering :
-Check the switching IC marks,on the driver ..
-Find it's datasheet
-Check the exact switching frequency of the IC used ..
-Use an Low pass LC filter calculator to ,find out the values of the two components ..
(Inductor + capacitor )

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I am using these drivers from fastech: https://www.fasttech.com/products/0...5v-50w-high-power-constant-current-led-driver.

Those drivers ,have dual EMI filtration .
Both at input and Output .
And in some other places also (at the switching inductor ..)
Don't worry ..

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) I am not 100% up to spec on how EMI works - Is this being emitted from the driver itself, traveling down the power cable, or both?
Both are true.
3) If EMI is being emitted, how do you tell? Any simple methods of finding out?
Transmitted in wiring and circuits. Can be transformed to RFI.The latter is transmitted for long distances
in air ,throught everything ...
4) If it is being emitted, how effective would a building a cage be?
Almost 100%

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Some extra info,along the road ....

-If you are going to use some cheapo AC/DC led drivers ...

At least make sure that the AC side has Grounding.
Try to stay away from 'floating ground AC/DC " led drivers .
(No grounding wire -Really cheap ones ) .

-These 'floating ground AC/DC " would be almost impossible to completely switch off ,
if a Triac (SSR ) relay is used into powering on / off ,those drivers .Not to be used with Climate control /
Digital Rail Timers / Automation .
(Will keep flickering the leds ,forever ,when power is 'OFF ' !!! ...)

-Also would be almost impossible to completely switch off ,
if a common plug digital timer is used .
(Will keep leds slightly lit ...)

-These 'floating ground AC/DC " might seriously affect the normal operation of
other electronic/electric devices ,pluged at the Same AC phase (line) with them.

-They can pose a serious life- threat ,in case of malfunctioning .
Specially if case is made of metal (i.e aluminium case ) ..

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This place has all kinds of paints, fabrics, films, faraday bags, etc... to block radio frequency emissions. They also sell a couple meters to measure RF.

http://www.lessemf.com/index.html

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I am able to listen to the radio with no interference when it is plugged into the same socket and when I have the radio and antenna right above/below/side of the lights. Is that a sufficient test for RFI?

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Depends my son...


Which band are you listening to ...
FM will be pretty much unaffected by RFI...
Check AM band ....
The whole band slowly ....
Switch on and off the lights ,couple of times while listening to AM ....

Well ?

If you can hear something ....
Anything ...

It can be 'heard'(traced) ,from some 10-20 miles away ,son ...
(at that average power of possible unprotected switching supplies ...)


And if somebody 'complains' /gets 'snowed' / spiked /buzzed /noised / covered or just simple notice the 'buzz' and notifies authorities about it ....

Bad news,will be coming right in front of your door ...
Sooner or later ..
(With a search warrant,for possible illegal /unlicenced TV/Radio station,only to discover ...leds !
With some mj plants underneath 'em ...." Big deal "...)

Check it out carefully.
Walk around your house at least at a radius of 300 yards .
Listening to radio ..AM .If there's a 'buzz '/'noise' .
.You'll be hearing harmonics also ...

If you can still hear the buzz of your light(s)
at AM band ,At 300 yards away from your house ....

Run back ,to it ...
And ...
Better to switch 'em off ,until you'll find a way to 'camo' that RFI ..
(Faraday cage-RFI/EMI foil-paint ,etc )

Take care ...
Cheers .

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I am not sure if emi comes out of led driver and escapes into the air or it comes out of the driver and goes into the ac line. Or both
If the cob and driver are enclosed in a metal case, would the metal case act as Faraday cage to block the emi. I am not sure in that case if metal foil or paint is needed in that case
I assume This however will not take care of emi that goes into the ac power line.

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Damn!

Did not think weed made me paranoid anymore haha! Took a rip and read this thread, and now you got me looking like a crazy person walking around my house with a radio.

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