Agricultural & Cannabis Specific LED Studies and Research

I need some help and guidance with researching the feasibility of incorporating LED retrofits for outdated HID lighting for commercial grow operations. I will of course be searching in the mean time and getting more up to speed with where LED technology currently is for growing cannabis but I would greatly appreciate some pointers in the right direction. The biggest thing right off the bat I need to find is some verified, unbiased, 3rd party research regarding how LEDs perform for growing cannabis. I realize that this is a bit of a vague request but any and all information at this time is greatly appreciated. I'm also open to Plasma Lighting as well but I know next to nothing about it.

Thanks

hey buddy

i saw u posted this in the other thread too

there was a study a few years back but it was before ppl started using remote phosphor white leds so i dunno how applicable it will be(cant find it now)

i think the best approach is to understand efficiency of light sources and compare for example the gravita or 1000watter u use

consider that remote phosphor cob leds run 40=70% efficient

anyway

the article "Economic Analysis of Greenhouse Lighting: Light Emitting Diodes vs. High Intensity Discharge Fixtures" only tests commercially available fixtures as per their manufacturer's claims (we all know that a 400w led fixture is more like a 180w)



http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/49/4/448.abstract


my opinion is not science but i will give it seen as i think it will help you


1) growing under leds is a learning curve- ting will be dif so not sure if its worth he switch for your crop situation
2) led tech will continue to get better and so when doing a cost analysis dont go past 2-3 years max(because by then ur pricey leds will be yesteryears tech and outdated)
3) i personally dont think leds are cost effective in larger spaces
4) if you do decide to go with led you absolutely have to build your own-prices on fixtures are a joke(think of $ per actual watt from the wall not claimed watts)
5) i wouldn't touch plasma


the most important thing when deciding about leds is your reason

so why do you wanna switch to led?
if its for electricity cost than consider the efficiency % as mentioned earlier( from my extensive research the best commercially available led fixtures offer only 38.3% efficiency aka .383 watts of light and .627 watts of heat per electrical watt [thats considered over powering your cobs in the DIY world and most would be looking at about 42% as a starting point while still costing half of a prefab fixture)

if its heat than upgrading your ventilation will be heaps cheaper lol

anyway hope that helps im here to bounce ideas off

EDIT: oh wait your talking about retrofits so like warehouse light replacements for hps light? ten dont bother the cost of aluminium for cooling far exceeds any gain from bulb replacements/ electrical efficiency unless as is often the case on cheap units they dont cool them properly in which case they cook sooner than you can pay for em not too mention they usally run those chips at near max current so efficiency isnt that much of an improvement to start with

Dion said:

hey buddy

i saw u posted this in the other thread too

there was a study a few years back but it was before ppl started using remote phosphor white leds so i dunno how applicable it will be(cant find it now)

i think the best approach is to understand efficiency of light sources and compare for example the gravita or 1000watter u use

consider that remote phosphor cob leds run 40=70% efficient

anyway

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099010

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/49/4/448.abstract

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Thanks for stopping in Dion. I will check out the links you posted. I want to demonstrate that LEDs can be a good alternative to traditional HID lighting for growing cannabis. The main goal is overall reduction in electricity consumption by switching out HID lighting for LED. Playing conservatively I know that they would at least be suitable for cloning and veg but I would also like to be able to confidently say that LEDs can be used for flowering as well and have sources to cite.

Thanks again

HID is not old as they got a jump in performance from the 400 volt bulbs.. and from reflector testing..

but LED, the thing I notice above anything i people can hit 1 GPW and above far easier with LED then HID..

the problem is locking in ratios and there hasn't been mega testing with colors and performance, you can throw a warm white LED and it grows, throw a red and blue and it grows, do a red blue and green and it grows.... there is not enough understood and by this I mean pure testing it out on clones with 40 different combinations.. it's gonna be a while till some companies or a crazy individual with a lot of money, time, and nerd genes to figure out optimum spectrum..

so you have two ways right now.. buy any one of the panels present.. a lumigrow or helio or some cheap chinese panels... or build a white cobb light..

I hate to say but not much in the way of what your looking for, all stoner tech here seeing what works and works better.. simplicity a low budget cobb or a panel.. dedicated and want to push build a cobb with colors on it or buy the helio RX30 and get a couple for testing

habeeb said:

HID is not old as they got a jump in performance from the 400 volt bulbs.. and from reflector testing..

but LED, the thing I notice above anything i people can hit 1 GPW and above far easier with LED then HID..

the problem is locking in ratios and there hasn't been mega testing with colors and performance, you can throw a warm white LED and it grows, throw a red and blue and it grows, do a red blue and green and it grows.... there is not enough understood and by this I mean pure testing it out on clones with 40 different combinations.. it's gonna be a while till some companies or a crazy individual with a lot of money, time, and nerd genes to figure out optimum spectrum..

so you have two ways right now.. buy any one of the panels present.. a lumigrow or helio or some cheap chinese panels... or build a white cobb light..

I hate to say but not much in the way of what your looking for, all stoner tech here seeing what works and works better.. simplicity a low budget cobb or a panel.. dedicated and want to push build a cobb with colors on it or buy the helio RX30 and get a couple for testing

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Thanks for the input

So far I didn't encounter a truly unbiased comparison of leds on their lightning performance, even less about their cannabis growing performance.
I think such testing would be necessary and needed, but would cost a fortune to put together.

Maybe if done by a non privatly funded university research institute, I'd take their findings seriously, but I don't see many possibilities for this to happen.
Count in all equipment, lights, sensors, assembly, spectrums, power consumption, light intensity, heating measurements and add the labs testing all the products, it would amount at an enormous pile of money needed to make such a research.

Maybe some day...or maybe a legal state should put some of the canna biz tax money into that kind of research. The hid manufacturers wouldn't be so happy I imagine

who dat is said:

Thanks for stopping in Dion. I will check out the links you posted. I want to demonstrate that LEDs can be a good alternative to traditional HID lighting for growing cannabis. The main goal is overall reduction in electricity consumption by switching out HID lighting for LED. Playing conservatively I know that they would at least be suitable for cloning and veg but I would also like to be able to confidently say that LEDs can be used for flowering as well and have sources to cite.

Thanks again

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then it really depends on the price per KWH of lecky in your location

but the reason i dont suggest leds for larger spaces is because its advantages become less as the garden size gets bigger

for example in a micro grow:

diy led will be cheaper than buying a hps set up

it will be more efficient so you get more light per watt

it will be able to run closer to the girls so you dont need headroom

it will produce less infared heat so cooling expenses are minimized and stealth is maintained

once you get to the 600w size garden:

HPS is way cheaper(even considering the bulb replacements and lecky costs[unless ur area is changing stupid prices for lecky)

you will be growing big girls so headroom isnt such a consideration

you need to spend on proper ventilation anyaways regardless of light source


so the only advantage to using LED in bigger gardens is savings on lecky


calculate the savings and do a cost analysis

the question of ïf"led can grow good dope in not debated, good leds can shit leds cant we see it all over the web now

the question is: is it worth it? I say no(even in my location im paying USD 20c per KWH its still not cost effective)


i mean ofcourse i use led but my flower area(which isnt real its just in my head because i never grow weed its illigal and bad etc) is only a half sq meter (3sq ft about) i flower a single sativa under 150w of led

I'm also weighing in with the fact that there is possibly some rebate money on the table that would offset the cost of the equipment which is why this is worth looking at. So if there hasn't been any research done specifically for cannabis and aside from the two links posted earlier are there any other recent studies carried out recently for growing any other kinds of crops indoors?

Thanks guys

Commercial Op using DIY leds. Draw your own conclusions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oLXiGT-50o

who dat is said:

I'm also weighing in with the fact that there is possibly some rebate money on the table that would offset the cost of the equipment which is why this is worth looking at. So if there hasn't been any research done specifically for cannabis and aside from the two links posted earlier are there any other recent studies carried out recently for growing any other kinds of crops indoors?

Thanks guys

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u r looking for non bias peer reviewed studies right?

no body is funding that apart from led growlight manufacturers

check out philips led site- they have the best led tech ever
check out bml led site- they have the best led tech ever
check out illumitex led site- they have the best led tech ever
check out osram led site- they have the best led tech ever
check out lumileds led site- they have the best led tech ever

etc etc etc


there is no good research into this, kinda like how we can build cars that never break or research into alternative fuel

There's some rumbling over in Indiana about a cannabis lighting study at a major university over there. I've heard some folks in Alberta are also trying to pull together some experiments. As @Dion mentioned, each manufacturer has their own data and case studies. I'm working with Silver State Relief to gather their quality and yield data under LumiGrow and Nanolux DE fixtures. I suspect we'll see more university-led research studies come out once legalization spreads.

There's tons of research on other crops available about growing with LEDs. If you want my reference list, let me know and I can share them with you.

With regards to utility rebates, I've secured some big checks for commercial growers to offset the 1.5-2x upfront cost of LEDs over HPS. The biggest one we were able to procure was over $300,000 for software-controlled energy-efficient LED fixtures for cannabis. Your mileage may vary depending on the utility. The utilities and their associations are starting to pay attention to the need for energy-efficient cannabis cultivation. The energy loads are breaking their grids.

Sow to Grow said:

There's some rumbling over in Indiana about a cannabis lighting study at a major university over there. I've heard some folks in Alberta are also trying to pull together some experiments. As @Dion mentioned, each manufacturer has their own data and case studies. I'm working with Silver State Relief to gather their quality and yield data under LumiGrow and Nanolux DE fixtures. I suspect we'll see more university-led research studies come out once legalization spreads.

There's tons of research on other crops available about growing with LEDs. If you want my reference list, let me know and I can share them with you.

With regards to utility rebates, I've secured some big checks for commercial growers to offset the 1.5-2x upfront cost of LEDs over HPS. The biggest one we were able to procure was over $300,000 for software-controlled energy-efficient LED fixtures for cannabis. Your mileage may vary depending on the utility. The utilities and their associations are starting to pay attention to the need for energy-efficient cannabis cultivation. The energy loads are breaking their grids.

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What state are you in? Regarding utility companies I'm talking Colorado front range. Any experience with any of those? I'm also planning on going to the Indo Expo at the end of this month and speaking directly with vendors and LED companies to hear their thoughts. I'd love to hear about any relevant links to studies you have. Thanks for stopping in and sharing some knowledge

I was fortunate enough to speak with one of the main guys from Blackdog LED and he was a very big help. He was very helpful and informative with answering any questions I had. Most importantly though he directed me to https://commercialgrowlights.com/ which is a Blackdog sponsored site but they really break down the numbers on using LEDs vs both traditional HPS and DE HPS lighting using a real world case study. I would encourage anybody who is interested along the same lines that I am to check out the site and read through all the material.

who dat is said:

I was fortunate enough to speak with one of the main guys from Blackdog LED and he was a very big help. He was very helpful and informative with answering any questions I had. Most importantly though he directed me to https://commercialgrowlights.com/ which is a Blackdog sponsored site but they really break down the numbers on using LEDs vs both traditional HPS and DE HPS lighting using a real world case study. I would encourage anybody who is interested along the same lines that I am to check out the site and read through all the material.

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although they try to gloss over it the savings weren't that big(page 2)

you should talk to philips they have a program

They didn't try to sugar coat it too much but were rather pushing the whole yield aspect vs traditional and DE HPS. Where I'm interested is not only the lower energy consumption from more efficient lighting but also the ability to keep a warmer room and significantly reduce your cooling electric load. Do you have any more information on the Philips program?

who dat is said:

They didn't try to sugar coat it too much but were rather pushing the whole yield aspect vs traditional and DE HPS. Where I'm interested is not only the lower energy consumption from more efficient lighting but also the ability to keep a warmer room and significantly reduce your cooling electric load. Do you have any more information on the Philips program?

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google it

i read about it 2 years ago i dunno whats up now