Timer Help with far red light

bandit89 · Apr 20, 2014

Trying to figure out a good answer for this... I just bought a horticulture grade far red 720nm led that I want to put in my flower room. I've been doing alot of research but can't come up with a solid suggestion for my application. I am growing mainly indica's under 2 600 watt hortilux bulbs. When should I have the far red led on?

I was thinking 15 minutes before lights out and 15 after. (I use 15 minute mechanical timers but I also have spare digitals)

I leave the light on the whole 12 hours and a few after?

Should I turn the light one right before lights on or for a short period when they come on?

I read through most of this
https://www.icmag.com/ic/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=6255952

and many other articles about far red....like I said I just need a simple suggestion with someone who has had decent results, and in advance thank you very much. Happy 420!!!

Phychotron · Apr 20, 2014

your 600's are already mostly IR, why do you feel you need more? Someone gave me a bunch of those bulbs I'd like to get rid off.

bandit89 · Apr 20, 2014

I'm trying to increase the phytochrome process... I've also read to keep the far red light on for 2 hours on after the lights off during the dark period and it will cancel out light leaks/trigger flowering quicker then normally. I guess when they hit the dark cycle it takes 2 hours for them to "sleep" but with the far red it is immediate so technically I could give them 2 extra hours of light and have no ill effects compared to 12/12 except an extra 2 hours of time to photosynthesize...I'm not trying to get into a debate or talk too much about it because I've read too much now, if anyone has a suggestion for my timers I would appreciate it, if noone has any input by the time it arrives I will just experiment for a while.

bandit89 · Apr 20, 2014

I've also read to "flash or strobe the light several times over 5-30 minutes" right after lights out....I know that nobody probably has the "right" answer or even a great one, I'm just looking for one that works in some beneficial way and not 5 different options unless they all work...

bandit89 · Apr 20, 2014

I think I may have finally found my answer but I'll wait for anyone to post if they want to...the info I got is from another forum, not sure if I can post I'm gonna check and post if possible.

Phychotron · Apr 20, 2014

I've heard a few things about it but from what I can tell no one really seems to know anything definitive. Its why I decided to get rid of mine, that and there are so many that its annoying with them all over the place and wired up. If you have some good reading material I'd love to see it, maybe consider actually using them. PM me if you don't want to post to the boards.

Thanks.

morgandecaptain · Apr 20, 2014

The two trigger points for the Phytochrome response are 660 nm and 730 nm. Ten minutes after lights out with 730 nm indoors is enough and you want your main lights to have some 660 nm to reverse it at lights on. With these two triggers you can increase your light schedule up to 14/10 during flower. I usually use 730 at 12/12 for the first 1 1/2 weeks then 13.5/10.5 for the middle and 12/12 for the last 1 1/2 weeks.

https://www.boundless.com/biology/p...he-phytochrome-system-and-red-light-response/

http://growlightsource.com/the-flow...65-indoor-outdoor-grow-light/led-grow-lights/

rives · Apr 20, 2014

If I remember correctly, OldMac used to run his 15 (maybe 30?) minutes prior to lights on and the same after lights out.

morgandecaptain · Apr 20, 2014

I've been using 730 nm for a year and I'm a believer,it also will shorten your flower time. If you read the associated literature it makes no sense to use it before lights on.

bandit89 · Apr 21, 2014

morgandecaptain said:
I've been using 730 nm for a year and I'm a believer,it also will shorten your flower time. If you read the associated literature it makes no sense to use it before lights on.

Thanks capt. Morgan and everyone else. The light I bought was the Philips greenpower flowering bulb. I only have 24 sq feet so I think its enough and it screws into any socket. I only thought of useing it during lights out to maybe create an Emerson effect if there was enough 680.(?) Or maybe buy a seperate bulb for that but I don't know a whole lot about that yet.

bandit89 · Apr 21, 2014

morgandecaptain said:
The two trigger points for the Phytochrome response are 660 nm and 730 nm. Ten minutes after lights out with 730 nm indoors is enough and you want your main lights to have some 660 nm to reverse it at lights on. With these two triggers you can increase your light schedule up to 14/10 during flower. I usually use 730 at 12/12 for the first 1 1/2 weeks then 13.5/10.5 for the middle and 12/12 for the last 1 1/2 weeks.

https://www.boundless.com/biology/p...he-phytochrome-system-and-red-light-response/

http://growlightsource.com/the-flow...65-indoor-outdoor-grow-light/led-grow-lights/

I had read that boundless article a few times before and it's pretty informative...

this is the bulb I ordered

http://www.hortamericas.com/catalog...-lights/GreenPower-LED-Flowering-Lamp-FR.html

bandit89 · Apr 21, 2014

morgandecaptain said:
The two trigger points for the Phytochrome response are 660 nm and 730 nm. Ten minutes after lights out with 730 nm indoors is enough and you want your main lights to have some 660 nm to reverse it at lights on. With these two triggers you can increase your light schedule up to 14/10 during flower. I usually use 730 at 12/12 for the first 1 1/2 weeks then 13.5/10.5 for the middle and 12/12 for the last 1 1/2 weeks.

Thanks again for this because I was thinking the same thing but maybe not using it the first 2 weeks of flower or using 14/10 from 24/0 at start and moving it down 15 minutes every week or so, the skywalker I have is a crazy stretcher so I am trying to minimize the stretch which might increase from using the far red correct?

morgandecaptain · Apr 21, 2014

bandit89 said:
I had read that boundless article a few times before and it's pretty informative...

this is the bulb I ordered

http://www.hortamericas.com/catalog...-lights/GreenPower-LED-Flowering-Lamp-FR.html

I couldn't find the exact wave length of their FR bulb,730 is the peak your looking for.

morgandecaptain · Apr 21, 2014

bandit89 said:
Thanks again for this because I was thinking the same thing but maybe not using it the first 2 weeks of flower or using 14/10 from 24/0 at start and moving it down 15 minutes every week or so, the skywalker I have is a crazy stretcher so I am trying to minimize the stretch which might increase from using the far red correct?

The schedule I mentioned has worked well for me and it's similar to the recommended schedule by the flower initiator seller I posted. I have a critical kush that can grow 3" a day and there are other things you can do to slow it down like adding more blue to your main lighting or super cropping.

bandit89 · Apr 21, 2014

morgandecaptain said:
I couldn't find the exact wave length of their FR bulb,730 is the peak your looking for.

morgandecaptain said:
The schedule I mentioned has worked well for me and it's similar to the recommended schedule by the flower initiator seller I posted. I have a critical kush that can grow 3" a day and there are other things you can do to slow it down like adding more blue to your main lighting or super cropping.

Yea I cant find the exact wavelength either just this
http://www.ecat.lighting.philips.co...-horticulture/greenpower-led/929000464503_eu/

so maybe 725,740,750.... I supercrop alot. thanks again man.

bandit89 · Jan 29, 2015

Update after about 8 months of experimenting, I have found that it definitely cuts down on flower transition time, by 2 weeks they are more like 3 weeks into flower compared to before and after 1 week are at the 2 week stage almos, depending on strain but as quick as 5 days and as long as 10 max. I also use hortilux bulbs which I think contain slighly more blue than a normal hps. I have the bulb turn on 15 minutes prior to lights out and leave it on for 15 after anymore and I found they stretched more than i wanted. This works well with the strains I've been keeping over the years which have very very tight internode spacing. I think It helps increase yield, I've noticed for some reason there is no reason to 'deleaf' top leaves, it seems like I getter better (hard to describe) full round long buds like a tube compared to when I deleaf I get a giant top cola bit it lacks underneath. not sure why but its awesome its like my lower canopy doesnt get light penetration but the energy travels from the top leaves downward filling out the branch.

bandit89 · Jan 29, 2015

its cool cause I can actually see a lot more red light in this picture compared to naked eye. In person there is only half the visible light.

tenthirty · Jan 29, 2015

Quote form another website....
"Indoors, when you go to 12/12, I recommend the Flower Initiator be placed on a separate timer, have it come on for 5 minutes before lights out and then let it run for another 10 minutes, this is more than enough exposure to switch the phytochrome state and gain two hours of "perceived" night length. Once the flowers show they have fully initiated, about a week, you can then increase the length of the "day" back, gradually over the a week long period, to 13.5 to 14 hours, you may gain 10%."

This is basically what I do in a perpetual, Cap'n Morgan got me started on this.........
Seems to work as advertised and was well worth the time and investment.

MoPho · Nov 10, 2015

bandit89 said:
Update after about 8 months of experimenting, I have found that it definitely cuts down on flower transition time, by 2 weeks they are more like 3 weeks into flower compared to before and after 1 week are at the 2 week stage almos, depending on strain but as quick as 5 days and as long as 10 max. I also use hortilux bulbs which I think contain slighly more blue than a normal hps. I have the bulb turn on 15 minutes prior to lights out and leave it on for 15 after anymore and I found they stretched more than i wanted. This works well with the strains I've been keeping over the years which have very very tight internode spacing. I think It helps increase yield, I've noticed for some reason there is no reason to 'deleaf' top leaves, it seems like I getter better (hard to describe) full round long buds like a tube compared to when I deleaf I get a giant top cola bit it lacks underneath. not sure why but its awesome its like my lower canopy doesnt get light penetration but the energy travels from the top leaves downward filling out the branch.

Any more updates? Are you doing anything different since you last posted?

Thanks

Phaeton · Nov 11, 2015

I also have been using the far red bulbs with good results. The bulbs were put in the garden six months ago.
The bud room has the far red come on 5 minutes before lights out, this is to confirm to me that the timer is functioning, and they stay on for a full half hour. This is overkill but does not hurt the plant, I have used an hour and a half with identical results.

13.5/10.5 is also less than the plants could use but gives the same equivalent light energy to the plant as an extra two weeks in flower mode. Buds are larger, visibly larger as well as weighing more.
14/10 is doable but I like the cushion of being able to water late occasionally without screwing things up, having an extra half hour to play with after lights out has saved me trouble more than once.

The veg table has a similar setup except the ILS (Intelligent Light System) has the far red built into the programming and it automatically follows the set on/off times with fifteen minutes of far red. This is simpler than the stand alone bulbs with the extra wires and timers.
I have not noticed any difference during veg but use it anyway for consistency.

Timer Help with far red light

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