Freezes Late in Spring Kill Seedlings: Genetics/Methods for Localization?

Douglas.Curtis · Nov 1, 2018

The topic is outdoor breeding, for creating strains which grow naturally in the area. The issue is how late in spring a freeze can crop up. Spring temperatures are warm enough for plants to begin sprouting, and freezes can happen as late as July. Considering the number of areas of the country with the same issue, I figured this would be a good place to discuss it.

Are there areas/genetics where the seeds do not sprout till after a warm period then a freeze?

Douglas.Curtis · Nov 2, 2018

Is the answer "hand planting seeds after the last frost?"

zif · Nov 2, 2018

In the breeder’s lab, I would think the answer would be to plant out a large number of seeds before the frost free date. Let nature do a sift for you! Rinse and repeat, year over year....

Ideally use varieties with expected variability in cold resistance. For example high elevation Nepali x Afghani F2s?

Alternatively, this may be another gene to chase from older, more wild type autoflowering varieties.

Douglas.Curtis · Nov 2, 2018

Ty, Zif. I too believe a combination of genetics and LOTS of seeds is the key. Though there are strains which finish here (early October), I believe autos may be a better choice.

Time will tell. Ty.

Cvh · Nov 2, 2018

Hi D.C.

Look also into the Hybrids From Hell seedbank. They are specialised in selected outdoor strains for cold Northern short seasoned climates.

I know a few here on the board that work with them and are even down multiple generations.

One time one off those members told me a story that the year after the harvest he went back to his growspot and was surprised to see tiny seedlings.

Those seeds survived extreme winter conditions.

That particular member grows outdoors in Tundra climate. He's quite happy with the strains from Hybrids From Hell.

zif · Nov 3, 2018

Cvh said:
Look also into the Hybrids From Hell seedbank. They are specialised in selected outdoor strains for cold Northern short seasoned climates.

Neat info. I love the ironic name, although I suppose there is increasing evidence that hell has in fact frozen over. ;-)

Cvh · Nov 3, 2018

Lol.

HFH have also their own subforum section:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65703

Forgot to say they are cheap too.
Less then 20€ for 13 seeds.

https://hybridsfromhell.net/

Hybrids from Hell is a danish breeder of ultrafast and very resistant outdoorstrains for guerilla- and outdoorgrower. Over the last years they created superb cannabisstrains that are all very easy to grow showing a great performance. If you are a outdoorgrower who is searching for easy strains with a high quality, this breeder is the one you are searching for. Esbe is the guy who is responsible for these great genetics of highest order, all products are also realy cheap - they are resistant against mold, mildew and many more diseases, it is the perfect choice for guerillagrower who do not have much time for the support of the plants. Also in warm temperate zones these weedseeds are highly recommended if you want to grow outdoors, do not wait - get them as long as they are available.

Douglas.Curtis · Nov 3, 2018

Awesome!

Sounds right perfect as an option. Thank you for bringing them to my attention. I need the seeds to survive a warm spring of growth, then a late freeze before flowering. Harsh tempered is good.

farmerlion · Dec 27, 2018

Hello all ,
I have been running about 15 strains a year for the last few years. Mostly noting the strains with an early onset of flowering. Destroyer is an early onset flowering Thai/ Mexican sativa cross. Yet Acapulco Gold is a very late onset flowering plant, but the flowering times are the same. I'm at 49N in North Dakota. I will wait until Labor day weekend to germinate seeds in my greenhouse. I germinate in final bags,no transplanting.

The Himalayan area genetics work fantastic in my part of the world. I'm testing more Auto's this season as well. Lebanese is a long flowering sativa plant that starts flowering in June. That's huge compared to the first or second week of September for Hazes here. I have found that a later warm healthy start to my plants. Is more productive than a stunted or stressful early start fighting cold days and nights.
I hope this helps a few people in a similar environment as mine.
Peace. MedDakotabis

Douglas.Curtis · Dec 27, 2018

Very helpful information, thank you!

PDX Dopesmoker · Dec 27, 2018

Sprouts and young plants have a good amount of resin content and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that one terp or another has an anti-freeze effect that helps a plant survive a cold snap. In the lab tests I saw, resin content in cannabis plants have a brief peak at around 2 weeks from seed and then then resin content drops to veg levels until flowering kicks in.
If you have a lot of seeds and want to experiment then the freezer and fridge in your kitchen might be worth using. If you can find just the right setting that kills about half or so of the sprouts then your survivors would probably end up breeding something worthy of respect.

Douglas.Curtis · Dec 27, 2018

Damn! That's a good piece of info right there.

I remember seeing cannabis sprouting up through snow, now I wonder what the terpene profile and levels were. LOL Thanks!

therevverend · Mar 6, 2019

I remember seeing cannabis sprouting up through snow, now I wonder what the terpene profile and levels were. LOL Thanks!

We've had the coldest February on record average-wise, plus our first good snow in 5 years. Clear cold weather. My friend had a big seed project last summer, the mold hit him hard and he was throwing seedy moldy buds he didn't want to deal with in the compost. They were next to some black felt pads he'd left out, literally as soon as the snow was melting in mid-February a couple seedlings popped up. The black was absorbing the heat. When he saw that he broke up the mold buds and tossed them around. Now he's got over a dozen strong starts up for next year. With solid ice forming all over.

He's putting out his cold frame with his seedlings he started in indoors in January. This is at 47 degrees N. It's still too cold for me I don't mess around this early. With his set up, just a simple cold frame with an extension cord for a heat mat. He'll have early sprouts coming out of his ears in a week. Hopefully pre-sexing his females in May and June.

The trick is having enough seeds to throw at the season. If you've got your precious ten seeds for $100 and you feel you have to nurse every one of them to adult plants you don't want to fool around in February and March. And you'll have several scraggy plants with small yields. If you can plant a hundred to come up with 10 kick ass plants you'll be weeding out the weaklings and you'll have a big harvest in October. As a grower seeds are everything.

If the current cold and sunny weather keeps up I'll be starting my plants in a week or two but I'll be shuttling them back and forth. I won't leave them out overnight until April 5 or so. But no cold frame.

Douglas.Curtis · Mar 7, 2019

Good stuff.

Thank you for sharing it. Makes me wonder if there's feral hemp around here already growing and adapted to the area.

10 seeds. hehehe I'm sure folks do it, but those 10 seeds should be used to make 10,000 seeds first.

MJPassion · Mar 7, 2019

PDX Dopesmoker said:
Sprouts and young plants have a good amount of resin content and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that one terp or another has an anti-freeze effect that helps a plant survive a cold snap. In the lab tests I saw, resin content in cannabis plants have a brief peak at around 2 weeks from seed and then then resin content drops to veg levels until flowering kicks in.
If you have a lot of seeds and want to experiment then the freezer and fridge in your kitchen might be worth using. If you can find just the right setting that kills about half or so of the sprouts then your survivors would probably end up breeding something worthy of respect.

ANTHOCYANIN

Douglas.Curtis · Mar 7, 2019

MJPassion said:
ANTHOCYANIN

Anthocyanins are flavonoid compounds that protect plant tissues from many environmental stresses including high light irradiance, freezing temperatures, and pathogen infection. ... As a result, seedlings grown at a high temperature (28°C) accumulate less anthocyanin pigment than those grown at a low temperature (17°C).Oct 20, 2017

Yes, that's what I was looking for, thank you so much.

(Edit: The puuuurply and red and orange stuffs)

NEED 4 SEED · Mar 8, 2019

I think it was February last year ot the year before when my birdfeed hemp seeds sprouted and went through some freezes after that. they didn't get big cause they stood in dark corners but they survived. Such hemp seeds are ok to use for testing cause they are cheap (here: 2 kilos = 6 bucks).

Douglas.Curtis · Mar 9, 2019

Awesome

MJPassion · Mar 13, 2019

Anthocyanin is also the compound that is extracted from red cabbage in order to make home made pH test kits.

Just a tid bit I thought yall would enjoy. :biggrin:

Douglas.Curtis · Mar 13, 2019

I remember this

Yes. I hope I never have to use them though. lol Things are rough enough as it is. lol

Too bad UV lamps are still ridiculously expensive, it would be interesting to supplement a few clones with UV. No?

Freezes Late in Spring Kill Seedlings: Genetics/Methods for Localization?

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