CannaRed's first grow diary

Ibechillin · Jun 3, 2019

By utilizing side lighting in flower for the undergrowth penetration (green light) becomes much less important. Leaves at the top of the canopy absorb and filter all the most usable wavelengths of light. The filtered light that makes it to the undergrowth is primarily Infrared which causes stretching and minimal green light which also provides negligible photosynthetic activity.

Best results with side lighting would probably be achieved in a spectrum highest in 660nm. Its the primary wavelength used in photosynthesis and what is missing beneath the canopy for proper growth/development.

Check out Dr.Kings thread to see what a 400w HPS overhead and two 180w Mars Hydro led panels at 1/2 power for side lighting can do:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=318715

CannaRed · Jun 3, 2019

Tried to get in there to take pics before lights come on but, of course they came on the second I started taking pics.
PurpAl

Here's where the hps starts to interfere with pic

Skunk Special

shaggyballs · Jun 3, 2019

Sorry for the hijack here:
You must strengthen your stomach in order to prevent back problems.
Stretching is important too.

Now back to the grow channel.

CannaRed · Jun 3, 2019

shaggyballs said:
Sorry for the hijack here:
You must strengthen your stomach in order to prevent back problems.
Stretching is important too.

Now back to the grow channel.

As in abs or digestive?

HydroGrowLeds · Jun 3, 2019

Ibechillin said:
By utilizing side lighting in flower for the undergrowth penetration (green light) becomes much less important. Leaves at the top of the canopy absorb and filter all the most usable wavelengths of light. The filtered light that makes it to the undergrowth is primarily Infrared which causes stretching and minimal green light which also provides negligible photosynthetic activity.

Green light drives leaf photosythesis more efficiently than red or blue light in the presence of strong white light (we make white with RGB), which was published by Oxford University a decade ago:

https://academic.oup.com/pcp/article/50/4/684/1908367

Green light also has a higher quantum efficiency than any other wavelength for overall plant growth. It's role in plant development is vital and is ignored by most in the grow light community. I didn't know anything about green until a PhD from the University of Washington educated us on it back in 2010. She's the reason we use green in our spectrum and more of it than any other MFR.

Medfinder · Jun 3, 2019

NICE PICS CANNARED :tiphat:

CannaRed · Jun 3, 2019

HydroGrowLeds said:
Green light drives leaf photosythesis more efficiently than red or blue light in the presence of strong white light (we make white with RGB), which was published by Oxford University a decade ago:

https://academic.oup.com/pcp/article/50/4/684/1908367

Green light also has a higher quantum efficiency than any other wavelength for overall plant growth. It's role in plant development is vital and is ignored by most in the grow light community. I didn't know anything about green until a PhD from the University of Washington educated us on it back in 2010. She's the reason we use green in our spectrum and more of it than any other MFR.

So side lighting should or should not be green?

CannaRed · Jun 3, 2019

Thanks Medfinder!
And I appreciate you visiting my first Grow diary. Hope you stay a bit!

Ibechillin · Jun 3, 2019

Hydrogrowled misinterpreted what I wrote. Some people seem to think they need an abundance of green spectrum light for canopy penetration after learning about its properties like HPS emits. I was implying to focus on a side lighting spectrum that caters to flowering growth, which is typically a ratio ~75-80% red.

HydroGrowLeds · Jun 3, 2019

Ibechillin said:
Hydrogrowled misinterpreted what I wrote. Some people seem to think they need an abundance of green spectrum light for canopy penetration after learning about its properties like HPS emits. I was implying to focus on a side lighting spectrum that caters to flowering growth, which is typically a ratio ~75-80% red.

Misinterpreting can be easy to do online. A lot of context is missing from typed language, so I apologize if my response was misconstrued. I was simply responding to this statement:

Ibechillin said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The filtered light that makes it to the undergrowth is primarily Infrared which causes stretching and minimal green light which also provides negligible photosynthetic activity.[/FONT]

Mostly the part about negligible photosynthetic activity. Green light also helps red and blue penetrate deeper into tissues. For me, light supplementation is based on the percentage of the whole, as plants transfer energy. So if you add in a bunch of red to the bottom, it alters the overall spectral ratios of what the plant is receiving. Alter it too much and it will impact growth rate, yield and also growth characteristics. If someone was supplementing our lights with side-lighting, I would advise using the same spectrum as top lighting to keep the ratios the same. But at this time we don't make any side-lighting so it would be pretty hard for the end user to do. Perhaps I'll add that to my list after the prototypes are ready.

Cannared - I've found that I have the least back issues when I keep my back strong. As much as it would seem counter-intuitive, if I stay active outdoors (digging planters, pouring concrete, laying sod, etc...) doing work that strengthens the back, I have far less issues than if I work in the office on my computer for months on end. The only caveat is to not over-exert yourself. Having a strong core and back for me have become essential to a happy life. Otherwise I can be down for months if my back goes out on me. Oh yeah, no bowling lol... As much as I love it, puts too much strain on my back.

CannaRed · Jun 4, 2019

HydroGrowLeds said:
Mostly the part about negligible photosynthetic activity. Green light also helps red and blue penetrate deeper into tissues. For me, light supplementation is based on the percentage of the whole, as plants transfer energy. So if you add in a bunch of red to the bottom, it alters the overall spectral ratios of what the plant is receiving. Alter it too much and it will impact growth rate, yield and also growth characteristics. If someone was supplementing our lights with side-lighting, I would advise using the same spectrum as top lighting to keep the ratios the same. But at this time we don't make any side-lighting so it would be pretty hard for the end user to do. Perhaps I'll add that to my list after the prototypes are ready.

I have been thinking about the side lighting for my bloom chamber under the 600w HPS.
I kinda feel like I have wasted space (height wise). I can really only grow the plants so tall, because canopy blocks light to lower branches. Usually "shave her legs". Remove branches that will only produce larf.
But when I do a SOG with short plants. I really have wasted space.

Figured I could put up t5's (but then strips got popular) in the 4 corners at the very bottom. This way taking advantage of all 5ish feet of grow space. (Chamber just under 7'. Light and filter take up around 2')

Cannared - I've found that I have the least back issues when I keep my back strong. As much as it would seem counter-intuitive, if I stay active outdoors (digging planters, pouring concrete, laying sod, etc...) doing work that strengthens the back, I have far less issues than if I work in the office on my computer for months on end. The only caveat is to not over-exert yourself. Having a strong core and back for me have become essential to a happy life. Otherwise I can be down for months if my back goes out on me. Oh yeah, no bowling lol... As much as I love it, puts too much strain on my back.

I definitely understand that. I said I hurt my back doing nothing, and I think that's literally what happened.

I'm usually active, I work construction, and always running around at work. If I gotta go get something I take of running like an idiot. Always working in yard at home.
But I just wasn't feeling like myself and I sat around for most of the weekend. I went to get up out of my chair, and my back started hurting!

Also noticed that when I went back to work, working helped it heal. I just wasn't moving my normal speed. Lol

CannaRed · Jun 4, 2019

Just hit the veg plants with Rhizoblast, and Mammoth P.

Everything looking good. Hopefully I'll be able to determine sex soon, so I can think some of these out.
They are crammed in there, with my own crosses and High Voltage's on the sides out of direct light.

Ibechillin · Jun 4, 2019

HydroGrowLeds said:
If someone was supplementing our lights with side-lighting, I would advise using the same spectrum as top lighting to keep the ratios the same.

This is what I was saying precisely, communication is tricky haha.

HydroGrowLeds said:
But at this time we don't make any side-lighting so it would be pretty hard for the end user to do. Perhaps I'll add that to my list after the prototypes are ready.

Ive been a huge advocate for Vertical bulb HID growing since it allows max bulb intensity and spectrum to light the top and bottom sides of the leaves simultaneously. This essentially negates the light intensity/spectrum loss from passing through leaf tissue from overhead lighting, light movers with overhead lighting are good for this as well. People have had great success growing trees indoor with bulbs on multiple sides of the plants, the led fixtures are nice for this because the light is oriented one direction.

CannaRed said:
I have been thinking about the side lighting for my bloom chamber under the 600w HPS.
I kinda feel like I have wasted space (height wise). I can really only grow the plants so tall, because canopy blocks light to lower branches. Usually "shave her legs". Remove branches that will only produce larf.
But when I do a SOG with short plants. I really have wasted space.

Figured I could put up t5's (but then strips got popular) in the 4 corners at the very bottom. This way taking advantage of all 5ish feet of grow space. (Chamber just under 7'. Light and filter take up around 2')

Have you thought about trying a donut arrangement grow around your 600w hung vertically with plants spaced 2 ft away from bulb CannaRed?

QQNPK · Jun 4, 2019

Interesting thread ! You have a cool setup with the chambers. Exciting to see the growth and comparison :tiphat:

CannaRed · Jun 4, 2019

Ibechillin said:
This is what I was saying precisely, communication is tricky haha.

Ive been a huge advocate for Vertical bulb HID growing since it allows max bulb intensity and spectrum to light the top and bottom sides of the leaves simultaneously. This essentially negates the light intensity/spectrum loss from passing through leaf tissue from overhead lighting, light movers with overhead lighting are good for this as well. People have had great success growing trees indoor with bulbs on multiple sides of the plants, the led fixtures are nice for this because the light is oriented one direction.

Have you thought about trying a donut arrangement grow around your 600w hung vertically with plants spaced 2 ft away from bulb CannaRed?

I'm small time. Bloom is a tiny bit over 2' x 3'.

CannaRed · Jun 4, 2019

QQNPK said:
Interesting thread ! You have a cool setup with the chambers. Exciting to see the growth and comparison

Thank you! I can't wait to see it myself. Lol

HydroGrowLeds · Jun 4, 2019

CannaRed said:
I have been thinking about the side lighting for my bloom chamber under the 600w HPS.
I kinda feel like I have wasted space (height wise). I can really only grow the plants so tall, because canopy blocks light to lower branches. Usually "shave her legs". Remove branches that will only produce larf.
But when I do a SOG with short plants. I really have wasted space.

Figured I could put up t5's (but then strips got popular) in the 4 corners at the very bottom. This way taking advantage of all 5ish feet of grow space. (Chamber just under 7'. Light and filter take up around 2')

Seems as though I need to start looking into supplemental side strips next. If people want it and are using it, I should be making it. I'm almost done with the engineering side of the new prototypes (getting close to finished on the sourcing end as well), so perhaps I'll do that as soon as the project is complete. I think for side-lighting having those small drivers built into the LED PCB may not be a bad idea.

CannaRed · Jun 5, 2019

Got pics of bloom chamber as soon as lights went off.
The smell PurpAl in late bloom overpowers the rest if the plants. Smells like overripe, almost to point of rotten peaches or plums. Hard to describe. She loses this smell after dry and cure. Then she smells fruity, Nehi grapeish, sometimes with a tiny hint of licorice. Licorice smell and taste get stronger if grown well outdoors.

PurpAl looking good.

One of the volunteers I saved a few months ago is getting frosty!

CannaRed · Jun 5, 2019

Gonna take pics of veg plants this evening. They are looking good too.
All of my Purple Satellites have the purple stems.
I noticed that the tops I cut off and put in clone dome under 12/12 are starting to root. No sign of sex yet.

nickman · Jun 5, 2019

Plants are
Looking
Great
Red
...!!!...

CannaRed's first grow diary

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