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Ron Paul 2012!!!

bentom187

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
i could have mabey gone straight to the point,they are ponzi schemes by definition,but they arnt as vulnerable to failing in the usual ways ponzi schemes do,because its government conducting them,for instence ponzi schemes require a constant inlow of new capital,another way for them to fail is the person or people running them leave with everything,or economic decline because people with withdraw their investments,with government none of that can happen(govt likes to assume the economy wont fail) but its still theft.

was medicare supposed to work yeah, but not for us.
 
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ShroomDr

ShroomDr

CartoonHead
Veteran
but not the elderly people that it services?

Its a wonder they dont support Dr Paul... [/sarcasm]


I say amend the 22nd Amendment. Just make it illegal to run for a third consecutive term. (i would actually be in favor or making the term 5-6 years and make a second consecutive term illegal.)
0523-bill-clinton-avn-stars-4.jpg

[/tongue-in-cheek]
 
bentom187

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
the elderley wouldnt have to be dependant on the system if they were able to keep what they earned in their youth.
also being stuck on fixed income and medicare,as well as other fixed income recipients feel inflation the hardest as their dollars dont buy as much as printing continues.
 
ShroomDr

ShroomDr

CartoonHead
Veteran
the water company cannot charge you $0.30 per gallon of water used.
The electric company cannot charge you $2.00 per KwH
Even your cable company cannot charge you $400 for basic cable.

All of these things are price controlled by the government. Its called socialism.
If a water company could charge you $2 to flush your toilet they would, that is called (unfettered) capitalism.

-

Medicare is/was an attempt to combine the costs of elderly healthcare, because they are the most likely to need it.
Its only half 'socialism' and this is part of its problem. Some Doc refuse to deal with medicare, and the others deal with it in VOLUME and jack up the system with useless shit just to milk it.

Bottom line, it has nothing to do with employment, and you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. (i support[ed] Medicare for All).
 
ShroomDr

ShroomDr

CartoonHead
Veteran
Hospitals can charge you $6 for a 200mg Ibuprofen (i can show you a bill).

Medicare wont pay that bullshit, hospitals work out a 'discount'.
 
S

Skinny Leaf

Well-known member
Veteran
ShroomDr said:
the water company cannot charge you $0.30 per gallon of water used.
The electric company cannot charge you $2.00 per KwH
Even your cable company cannot charge you $400 for basic cable.

All of these things are price controlled by the government. Its called socialism.
If a water company could charge you $2 to flush your toilet they would, that is called (unfettered) capitalism.
Click to expand...



Maybe in the state you live the utilitites are regulated by state government. But, other states have deregulated utilities where you can choose who your utilities providers are. Where I live I have dozens of electric companies I can choose from. They all compete for customers. The only choice we don't have is for water. Even so, I choose to have Oarka deliver water for my family to drink. Where I sit there is competition in all the markets which keeps prices in check.
 
S

Skinny Leaf

Well-known member
Veteran
zymos said:
Your state has no Public Regulatory Commision or similar...?
Click to expand...

Yes. We have a Public Utility Commission. Yes they regulate pricing. Right now that commission is trying to raise our electric bills. Not cut our rate but a mandatory rate increase across the board. Other than regulating pricing in some rural areas, that local municipalities run, they are pretty much out of the pricing regulation business. We didn't have a PUC until 1975. We got deregulation of utilities in 1999. Its been a price war ever since.
 
bentom187

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
ShroomDr said:
... and the obvious disconnect is ... you dont have to work a day in your life to qualify for medicare.

http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/Medicare_%28 United_States%29 #Eligibility

Your water, electric, natural gas, and cable bill are all price controlled socialized systems. So is elderly healthcare.

-
Click to expand...

but its not free,the cost of providing that care gets flipped onto the people who pay for medicare, or the tax payers cover it.

socialized costs+ privitized gains,= bad and wont work unless force is used.



lets look at your example socialized expenses not income:
also i think your confusing capitalisim with corpratisim, but ill move past that, and say take a look at the price control for your cable bill,its a requirement to pay ex. 250.00 ,your argument is they could charge you more,but thanks to the government its not ? have you considered the flip side of the coin,in that your required to take out X amount out of your pocket every month otherwise you have a choice of mabey 2 other providers who no one wants compairitivley,and that if you are on a fixed income there is no option but to downgrade or lose it but for people still working there is somwhat of a option,but are still limited by wage controls.

but yes as you pointed out we are smothered by socialisim.

socialisim doesnt sound that attractive,and its a slap in the face to our vets who faught and died so we could be free.

[YOUTUBEIF]DlcFn8Ua4Zs[/YOUTUBEIF]
 
zymos

zymos

Jammin'!
Veteran
bentom187 said:
socialisim doesnt sound that attractive,and its a slap in the face to our vets who faught and died so we could be free.
Click to expand...

Oh for fucks sake...




I don't think any of our armed forces went to war so grandma could be free to live on dog food and grandpa was free to quit taking his meds cause he couldn't afford them anymore...
 
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T

trem0lo

ShroomDr said:
the water company cannot charge you $0.30 per gallon of water used.
The electric company cannot charge you $2.00 per KwH
Even your cable company cannot charge you $400 for basic cable.

All of these things are price controlled by the government. Its called socialism.
If a water company could charge you $2 to flush your toilet they would, that is called (unfettered) capitalism.

Medicare is/was an attempt to combine the costs of elderly healthcare, because they are the most likely to need it.
Its only half 'socialism' and this is part of its problem. Some Doc refuse to deal with medicare, and the others deal with it in VOLUME and jack up the system with useless shit just to milk it.

Bottom line, it has nothing to do with employment, and you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. (i support[ed] Medicare for All).
Click to expand...

What about computers? Cell phones? TVs? Those aren't price controlled by the government. They're cheap and everyone has one. Believe it or not, health care used to be very cheap before hospitals started being heavily regulated in the 1960s.

Our Constitution allows for Socialism at the State level. Many of those utilities you mention are regulated thus. And the ones that aren't, could be much more efficiently.

At least you call Medicare for what it is... the interesting thing about Medicare is that, yes, we have a certain amount of benefits that are "owed" to us, but what happens to the money that comes out of your paycheck?

It goes directly to the Treasury and spent. A type of Medicare IOU is put in it's place. There is no account with your money in it. It is gone, spent before they even take it.

It's like in Dumb and Dumber when they fill the suitcase full of IOUs.

"That's as good as money sir. See that one? That's a car. 275 thou. Might want to hang on to that one."

zymos said:
I don't think any of our armed forces went to war so grandma could be free to live on dog food and grandpa was free to quit taking his meds cause he couldn't afford them anymore...
Click to expand...

So what happens when the rest of the world discovers that our country's suitcase is filled with IOUs? They stop buying our debt, the rest of the world starts dropping the dollar as a reserve currency, and our Empire starts to come to an end in the worst way possible. Once the dollars start coming back to our shores, and after the FED fires up the printing presses to continue the charade (they will), all those Medicare benefits won't even buy dog food.

I'd rather stop the train before it heads off the cliff rather than suffer through 20 years of an inflationary collapse.
 
bentom187

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
zymos said:
Oh for fucks sake...




I don't think any of our armed forces went to war so grandma could be free to live on dog food and grandpa was free to quit taking his meds cause he couldn't afford them anymore...
Click to expand...

well im willing to bet its not a american brand of socialisim either.i get having a bleeding heart for poor,but perhaps if they were not taxed on their income forced to pay into these systems a majority of their life ,they could have saved for the future.
does that mean everything is ok ,no the tresurey is still printing and debasing the currencey so prices have to go higher,as the money supply increases.
if they have wage controls oe fixed income then when inflation arrives it forces austerity or debt. and spending of your savings to make ends meet.
 
bentom187

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
from RP forums : UPDATED 5/20/2012:

UPDATED: All conventions are listed! In my original list, I forgot to include the dates for states that have not had primaries or caucuses yet.

5/22-5/23
1. New York - The New York Republican State Committee will meet to elect the 34 at-large delegates who are bound according to the results of the primary.

5/30-6/2
1. Washington - The Washington Republican State Convention (consisting of 1,500 delegates, 1,500 alternates, and the automatic delegates) convenes [WSRP rule 36]. National Convention delegate candidates declare their Presidential preference or uncommitted status at the time they are nominated. These delegates are bound for the first ballot at the National Convention [WSRP rule 37]. The State convention meets in Congressional District Caucuses. Each of the 10 caucuses elects 3 National Convention District delegates. The State convention as a whole elects 10 At-Large National Convention delegates.

6/1-6/3
1. North Carolina - The State Convention elects the National Convention Delegates according to the results of the primary. In addition, the state convention elects the National Committeeman and National Committeewoman. Party Chairman Robin Hayes was elected in June 2011 to a 2 year term and will serve through 2013.

6/2
1. Missouri - 25 (10 base at-large delegates plus 15 bonus delegates) of 52 delegates to the National Convention are elected and bound to Presidential contenders at today's State Convention. These At-Large delegates are elected by the convention as a whole. Before voting begins, the National Convention Delegate candidates indicate their Presidential Preference and organize into slates. The Convention participants then cast ballots for a slate rather than the individual candidates. The slate receiving the most votes, goes to the National Convention. There is no formal system applied in the State Convention to relate the presidential preference of the State Convention delegates to the choice of the convention's delegates to the National Republican Convention. The delegates in attendance alone determine if presidential preference is to be a factor and, if so, how it is to be applied.
2. Lousiana - 18 National Convention district delegates-- 3 from each of the state's 6 Congressional Districts are elected in the Congressional District meetings. The participants at the State Convention alone determine if presidential preference is to be a factor in such choice and, if so, how it is to be applied. These delegates are official designated as uncommitted. 20 National Convention At-Large delegates are elected according to the results of the primary. [Rule No. 19. (d) and 20. (b)]. 5 National Convention delegates are nominated by the Executive Committee. These delegates are official designated as uncommitted. [Rule No. 19. (e) and 20. (b)]

6/8-6/9
1. Indiana - 6 delegates (10 base at-large delegates plus 6 bonus delegates) are chosen by the Indiana State Republican Convention. These 16 delegates are not required to reflect, in any way, the results of the primary voting; it has been determined that these delegates will go to the Republican National Convention officially "Unpledged". [Rule 9-30]. The district delegates are elected on 8 June [Rule 9-29] and the at-large delegates are held on 9 June [Rule 9-30].
2. Illinois - The Illinois Republican Party State Convention convenes in Tinley Park and chooses the remaining 12 delegates. Illinois' 12 (10 at-large + 2 bonus) delegates are chosen by the State's Republican Party Convention will go to the Republican National Convention officially unbound.

6/10
1. Pennsylvania - Summer Meeting. The Pennsylvania Republican State Committee will meet to choose 10 at-large delegates. The at-large delegates, chosen by the state's Republican State Committee, will go to the Republican National Convention officially "Unpledged". [Rule 8.3]

6/16
1. Iowa - The Iowa State Republican Convention officially convenes. 25 of 28 National Convention delegates are selected. The delegates to the Iowa State Republican Convention gather: at this time, the delegates to the State Convention from each county making up a given congressional district meet in separate Congressional District Caucuses to choose the state's district delegates to the Republican National Convention.
2. Virginia - : The State Convention convenes in Richmond. 13 At-Large National Convention Delegates (all of whom are bound according to the results of the Virginia Republican Primary) are elected at the State Convention. All Congressional and At-Large National Convention delegates to are bound for the first ballot at the Republican National Convention unless he/she has publicly withdrawn or has released his/her delegates. The State Convention chooses 3 party leader delegates (a State Party Chairman is elected; and a National Committeeman and a National Committeewoman are nominated) all of whom will attend the convention as unpledged delegates by virtue of their position.The State Convention nominates two At-Large Presidential Electors to serve in the Electoral College if the Republican Presidential nominee carries Virginia on Tuesday 6 November 2012. Only duly elected Delegates representing the each of the independent cities and counties in Virginia may vote at the State Convention.

6/21-6/23
1. Idaho - No later than 30 days before the State Convention, each Presidential candidate prepares a list of proposed National Convention delegates. 80% of the the National Convention delegates ( 80% of 32 = 25.6 which rounds to 26 delegates ) are selected from this list. 20% ( 20% of 32 = 6.4 which rounds to 6 delegates ) are elected by the Nominations Committee. [Rules Article VI Section 7:] ... Delegates ... shall be obliged on the first ballot taken at the Republican National Convention to vote for the candidate who nominated them, provided any Delegates selected as representing the "uncommitted" choice shall be free to cast their vote for any candidate whose name has been placed in nomination before the Republican National Convention. In the event of death or withdrawal ... or release of Delegates by a candidate prior to the first ballot ... Delegates committed to such a candidate ... become uncommitted [Rule Article VI Sections 8 & 9].

States that have not had primaries or caucuses but still have state conventions coming up:

Nebraska
County Conventions: Friday 1 June - Sunday 10 June 2012 (tentative)
State Convention: Saturday 14 July 2012 (tentative)
Info: There is no formal system applied at the County Conventions to relate the presidential preference of the County delegates to the election of delegates to the State Convention. The delegates in attendance at each Convention alone determine if presidential preference is to be a factor and, if so, how it is to be applied. Saturday 14 July 2012 (tentative): The Nebraska State Republican Convention convenes. Congressional District Caucuses made up of the State Convention delegates from each of Nebraska's 3 congressional districts choose the 9 district National Convention delegates (3 per congressional district). The State Convention as a whole selects 23 (10 base at-large plus 13 bonus) at-large delegates to the Republican National Convention. Prospective delegates must indicate their Presidential Preference and are bound to vote for that candidate for the first 2 ballots at the National Convention.

Oregon
Primary: Tuesday 15 May 2012
District Conventions: Saturday 23 June 2012
Info: Delegates to the 5 District Conventions elect the National Convention Delegates according to the results of the primary. There are 4 ballots in each CD: 1 for each of the 3 Congressional District delegates (total 5 districts × 3 delegates = 15 delegates) and 1 for the statewide At-Large delegates (total 10 delegates). The delegate candidate(s) receiving the most votes will attend the National Convention.Each person selected as a delegate ... shall sign a pledge that he/she shall vote at the National Convention for the candidate for the President of the United States he/she favors until the candidate is: (1) nominated; (2) receives less than 35% of the votes for nomination at the convention; (3) releases the delegate from the pledge; or (4) until two convention nominating ballots have been taken. Should a delegate ... refuse to cast his/her vote in accordance with this pledge ... the Chairman of the Oregon delegation ... shall report to the convention floor that delegate's vote in accordance with such laws and rules until such time as that delegate is released from his/her pledge. [Oregon Republican Party Bylaws ARTICLE XVII Section B.; State Law (ORS 248.315)]

Kentucky
District Conventions: Saturday 7 April - Saturday 19 May 2012
Primary: Tuesday 22 May 2012
State Convention: Saturday 9 June 2012
Info: Saturday 9 June 2012: State Convention. The 24 At-Large National Convention Delegates are elected. They are bound to Presidential contenders according to the results of the 22 May primary.

Arkansas
Special Meeting of the County Conventions: Monday 23 April - Friday 11 May 2012
Primary: Tuesday 22 May 2012
Special District Convention: Saturday 9 June 2012
State Committee Meeting: Saturday 23 June 2012
Info: Saturday 9 June 2012 - Special District Convention. District delegates are elected according to the results of the primary.Saturday 23 June 2012 - State Committee Meeting. At-Large delegates are elected according to the results of the primary.

Texas
Primary: Tuesday 29 May 2012
State Convention: Thursday 7 June - Saturday 9 June 2012
Info: he Texas Republican State Convention convenes in Fort Worth where the National Convention delegates are elected according to the results of the primary. [General Rules for All Conventions and Meetings. Rule 38. Sections 6, 7, 8, 9] 108 district delegates are elected: 3 from each of the state's 36 congressional districts. 44 at-large delegates (10 base at-large delegates plus 34 bonus delegates) are elected. Delegates are elected by Presidential Preference from the Congressional districts in which their candidate received the highest percentage of the vote, providing the candidate received 20% or more of the vote, until the candidates delegate allotment is fulfilled. Then, the process is repeated for the 2nd highest vote getter. Once all Congressional district delegates are selected, the At-Large delegates are selected.

Montana
Non-binding Primary: Tuesday 5 June 2012
State Convention: Thursday 14 June - Saturday 16 June 2012
Info: Delegates to the State Delegate Convention are elected from each county by the County Central Committee at least 10 days before the State Convention. [Montana Republican Party Bylaws. Section B - III. D]Thursday 14 June - Saturday 16 June 2012: State Convention / State Delegate Convention. The convention elects the delegates to the Republican National Convention, and nominates Presidential Electors. [Section B - III. B. and F. 1) through 7)] There is no formal system applied to relate the presidential preference of the participants to the choice of the delegates to the Republican Convention. The participants alone determine if presidential preference is to be a factor in such choice and, if so, how it is to be applied.

New Mexico
Precinct Meetings: April 2012 (tentative)
County Conventions: Saturday 12 May - Saturday 19 May 2012
Primary: Tuesday 5 June 2012
State Republican Convention: Saturday 16 June 2012 (tentative)
Info: There is no formal system applied in the County Conventions to relate the presidential preference of the Convention participants to the choice of the Convention's delegates to the State Convention. The participants at each County Convention alone determine if presidential preference is to be a factor in such choice and, if so, how it is to be applied. Saturday 16 June 2012 (tentative): The New Mexico State Republican Convention convenes. The State Convention elects 20 delegates from New Mexico to the Republican National Convention according to the results of the primary. Voting is by secret ballot. [Rules Article 2-2-1(A)(2) and 2-2-10(D)(4)] The State Convention delegates gather by Congressional Districts to elect 9 National Convention District delegates, 3 from each of New Mexico's 3 Congressional Districts. The State Convention meets as a whole to elect the 11 National Convention At-Large delegates.

States that have already had state conventions in order of their primary:
Nevada 5/5-5/6
Colorado 4/14
Maine 5/5-5/6
Arizona 5/12
Wyoming 4/12-4/14
Oklahoma 5/11-5/12
North Dakota 3/30-41
Alaska 4/26-4/28
Northern Mariana Islands 3/10
Maryland 4/27-4/28
Delaware 4/28
Minnesota 5/18-5/19
Michigan 5/18-5/19
Georgia 5/18-5/19
Mississippi 5/18-5/19
Connecticut 5/18-5/19
South Carolina 5/19
Vermont 5/19

States that do not have state convention dates set:
New Hampshire
Florida
Ohio
Tennessee
Massachusetts
Kansas
Guam
Virgin Islands
Alabama
Hawaii
American Samoa
Puerto Rico
Wisconsin
District of Columbia (DC)
West Virginia
California
Oregon
New Jersey

Source for all info: TheGreenPapers

We have to work to do, now let's make it happen grassroots!
 
bentom187

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
wouldnt we all..... sorry its each individuals consious choice at the time of the first ballot,the other thing we cannot underestimate is romneys base is corpratists the RNC and lawyers we have to do the real work,it is a revolution that requires us to act on our beleifs cause no one else is going to.

"I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act."

-Buddha
 
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