Scarhole's root pruning sex reversal method for fem seeds

Elmer Bud · Dec 13, 2014

scarhole2 said:
Good to see to Elmer.

First I ask do you all Think all fems are herm?
This is different than random stress making a herman an hormone manipulation.

A Inter sex trait that appears randomly is no good.
I want to see if can get a female plant to become male For fem pollen - only when root pruning the first weeks- .
Obviously the prodgeny must be stable when stress tested . (Unless I root prune the first weeks of life.)

G`day Scar

No I don`t think all Fems are herms .
I`ve grown enough of them to know that`s not the case .

I can see your goal . To find a male and make a reg seeds for projects .

But like I said you have great success with the STS . I wouldn`t disregard that method as yet .

When Samuel SK talks breeding I`m all ears . he he .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Gram Paw smurf · Dec 13, 2014

Thing that stands out most to me is the fact that using the method is a lot like if a plant gets root bound or something which can easily be something someone comes across in a grow, but if a chem forcing is used I just don't see that as being something every grow of progeny is going to see at all afterwards so is a lot less likely to be considered as some sort of susceptibility for herming out.
I've seen plants throw out nanners with little stress to their roots, n others that'd take being root bound no problem without doing so.
I'd personally just rather have a plant that's not susceptible to something natural rather than 1 that was chemically forced to do so which will more than likely never see that trigger again unless someone wants to do so.
Really it's most likely all a stress to the plant some way or another considering but I'd imagine more natural stressors are going to be more common for progeny to come across than chem stressors so why chance them just being weak to something they'll quite possible naturally come across when there's options they may nvr come across naturally again.

cheers,.......................................................gps

luxcultivars · Dec 13, 2014

So... how is this your technique again? I'm not getting that part. You read about others doing it but you haven't tried it and have had no apparent role in developing it... am I missing something here?

Don't get me wrong; it's very interesting info. I just don't see what exactly you contributed to this discovery that has you proclaiming it as 'Scarehole's method'.

scarhole2 · Dec 14, 2014

Nothing is new under the sun but

I was the one connecting the root pruning sex expression paper to Esco an drgts methods for root pruning for fem seeds.
They wouldnt tell how they do it. Or the science behind there root pruned fems.

I did.
I let the cat out of the bag.
But its not my bag or my cat. Lol

Mr DS and elmer bud have confirmed I'm on the right track.
Whoooooooot.

Only Ornamental · Dec 14, 2014

Gram Paw smurf said:
...root bound...

It's absolutely nothing like root bound

.
Root pruning here means constantly removing all roots the instant they show/grow. That means, having a plant without any roots at all until they reverse sex. It's not about stress either but simply cytokinin deprivation. Instead of adding an 'anti-hormone' like silver, you remove the organ that synthesises it.

Gram Paw smurf · Dec 14, 2014

So in the same post you say it aint stress but it's removing an organ that produces something normally there?
Sounds stressfull enough to me lol
I didn't say it was root bound in a pot exactly but is a similar enough disturbance as would happen naturally to say a root bound plant that progeny getting simply root bound in a grow could just as easily trigger the same effect as the plant is obviously being selected to do so.
If hacking off roots aint considered stress but being root bound is enough to trigger susceptibility enough to be something I'd toss I'd consider them about equal sinse the results are the same aren't they.

cheers,................................................gps

Only Ornamental · Dec 15, 2014

Hi GPS
I didn't understand what you meant the first time. I see what you mean and you're right, hacking off roots certainly is a form of stress but it's not the stress which causes sex reversal

.

Dog Star · Dec 15, 2014

Cat out of hat...

VerdantGreen · Jan 16, 2015

is there any particular part of the root that produces the cytokinins? i root my cuts in small peat pucks about 1" diameter, do you think that removing all roots as they emerge from the puck will be enough? it will probably leave about 10mm of each root inside the puck

also does anyone know how long it needs to be done for, and afterwards presumably you just pot it up and put it straight to flower? or can you veg it a little?

want to try this but cant see much info in the tread or the abstract....

thanks

VG

Only Ornamental · Jan 17, 2015

Hi VG

VerdantGreen said:
is there any particular part of the root that produces the cytokinins?
Yes, several . It was formerly believed that only root tips produce cytokinins but recent data show abundance of different cytokinin 'synthases' throughout the plant. Though, the first biosynthetic step is limited to roots and highest in root tips: see for example THIS publication.
i root my cuts in small peat pucks about 1" diameter, do you think that removing all roots as they emerge from the puck will be enough? it will probably leave about 10mm of each root inside the puck
Unfortunately, you would have to remove all roots as soon as they show for this experiment to work even if it were only the tips that produced cytokinins. Unlike on stems, new roots quickly emerge on 'decapitated' roots and will start to synthesise cytokinins.
also does anyone know how long it needs to be done for, and afterwards presumably you just pot it up and put it straight to flower? or can you veg it a little?
Problem is, you need to deprive the plant of cytokinins in order to shift the hormonal balance towards 'maleness' (i.e. high gibberellins). This may already take a while as cytokinins can be stored within the plant. You also have to maintain this hormonal imbalance until the flower meristems are sexually primed (bluntly speaking). This said, you need to keep the plant root free until it is mature and probably until 1 week into after switching to 12/12 in order to get some male flowers. Shortly after you let roots grow, the plant will realise that it's a female and all subsequently built flowers will again be female. This strategy is not a real and permanent sex reversal, it's only a 'phenotypical con' that works as long as you 'cheat'.
want to try this but cant see much info in the tread or the abstract....
I have the full text but it doesn't help much further, the 'methods' section is rather useless and only indicates that all adventitious roots have been removed the instant they showed. They grew also in a greenhouse at 18 hours natural daylight which indicates that they used an 'autoflowering' hemp variety. The pictures show flowers of approximately 2 weeks of age (judging from my Finola experiments).
thanks
Your welcome
VG

I hope this helps!

delta9nxs · Jan 17, 2015

i hate to burst anyones bubble but i have posted this info several times over the last five years on this site.

but i'm not going to claim it as "my method".

including this link;

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00391177#page-1

for the pics there is a button on the top left that says "look inside".

d9

Only Ornamental · Jan 17, 2015

So you're saying we can not call it 'scarholing'?
Even if you had the right to give this method a name, 'd9ing' or even 'jiving' just doesn't sound cool enough

.

delta9nxs · Jan 17, 2015

Only Ornamental said:
So you're saying we can not call it 'scarholing'?
Even if you had the right to give this method a name, 'd9ing' or even 'jiving' just doesn't sound cool enough .

how bout "jiveholing"?

Only Ornamental · Jan 17, 2015

delta9nxs said:
"jiveholing"

A compromise? I like compromises

! Or maybe 'scar dancing'?
ROFL

VerdantGreen · Jan 17, 2015

thanks OO

not sure how one can flower a plant that doesnt have any roots....

Only Ornamental · Jan 17, 2015

VerdantGreen said:
not sure how one can flower a plant that doesnt have any roots....

You put it under 12/12??? After all, we're not talking potatoes...

VerdantGreen · Jan 17, 2015

yeah

but with only the leaves to provide it with any nutrition i cant see it pruducing many flowers, certainly not with the small cuttings i take.

Only Ornamental · Jan 17, 2015

The only 'nutrients' the leaves usually 'harvest' is CO2, light, and O2, so to speak.
Obviously, you have to provide a full spectrum nutrient/growth medium and not just plain water. The plants will take it up directly through the cut in the stem and later also through some sort of callus that will form. Not perfect, you're right, but I guess it'll do for a few dozen flowers; enough to pollinate quite a bunch of females

. Producing seeds would be something else, though...

HL45 · Jan 17, 2015

I did this outdoors this last season. We had a female seedling that was not performing in a bed with other females. After noticeable growth on the other plants we decided to remove the female plant and replace it with another. I took a shovel and dug it out. Being that I dont like to kill plants, I put it in a pot and left it outside. Within 2 weeks it was completely covered in male flowers we could not find even one pistil. We were dumbfounded because we had surely confirmed that it was a female originally. We ended up killing it anyway to make sure that we did not pollenate our plot.

I mentioned this to delta9 and he told me about his patented jiveholing tech and subsequently demanded the fee of £120,000. Since I didn't have the money I disappeared into the wilderness.. Now upon reading this I am happy that I may safely return debt free.

VerdantGreen · Jan 18, 2015

OO i was refering to the nutrients 'stored' in the leaves and stems as chlorophyl, starch etc, this is what the cuttings use to make the roots i thought - which is why the leaves go yellow as the roots form.

but yeah i wonder if the best method would be just to put some branches in water or light nutrient solution under 12/12. this is often the way i harvest pollen from males, and they stay alive for a long time as long as you change the water regularly

VG

Scarhole's root pruning sex reversal method for fem seeds

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