New Soil Recipe

Hort Tech · Nov 9, 2018

hey guys i did my first full organic outdoor grow this summer and am looking to do ti agin this coming summer. i used Vic High's recipe and added a bit more to it with ok success, and also adding in some compost teas every few weeks.

I'm looking to push them a little more this year by adding in a few more things and want to make sure i didn't add to much of anything. so let me know what you think. Might have to much blood and bone meal?

1) promix hp - 1 bale
2) blood meal - 5lb
3) bone meal - 5lb
4) kelp meal - 4 cups
5) Alfalfa - 4 cups
6) Dolomite lime - 4 cups
7) Azomite -1 cup
8) Rock Phosphate - 1Lb
9) worm castings - 25Lb
10) mushroom compost - 25Lb
11) Neem cake - 5Lb
12) insect frass - 5Lb
13) Epson salt - 1 cup
14) gypsum - 5lb
15) bio char - 3LB
16) High p bat guano - 5LB
17) Leaf Compost - 1 bag

Bmac1 · Nov 11, 2018

Im sure someone with more experience will chime in but I would say that you will need some type of additional aeration like lava rock or pumice. The promix has perlite but with the castings and 2 different composts, it could get a little heavy. Id also skip the epsom salt and maybe just foliar spray a couple times along the way.

aridbud · Nov 11, 2018

Although time consuming, do 1/2 your holes with your previous, a few new holes with above recipe. See which thrives best. It's easy to 'over do' organic making your soil medium too hot.

CrushnYuba · Nov 12, 2018

It's very hard for me to comment on if it's to hot because i don't think in cups. I measure amendments by weight. Different amendments are more dense then others and measuring by volume make hard to do substitutions based on the npk on the label.
I think you would get a soil test done of last year's soil. If something is really low, you were lacking it. If it's high, you had more then you can use.
what are you going to do with your old soil? Are you not using it again?
Usually the answer for pushing your plants is not making an already hot mix hotter. The answer is usually to add more soil volume of your proven mix. Or to add more top dressing at the right time. I Definitely wouldn't be adding more fast breaking down nutrients like blood. Try feather instead if you think u needed more N. Have you ever seen what happens to a plant that had to much organic N? It grows slow as hell. And to much soluble N will fry your plants. Your mix needs to be balanced. To much of any nutrient will do harm.

My suggestion is to add more soil volume and top dress more. It's the safe way to get your plants more nutrients.

Also, isn't promix already ph balanced with lime? Why are you adding dolamite? Was that amount in the original soil recipe? There are other ways to get cal and mag without screwing with your ph.

aridbud · Nov 12, 2018

It grows slow as hell. And to much soluble N will fry your plants. Your mix needs to be balanced. <<<<<<That's what I meant.

Right, test soil.

Lost in a SOG · Nov 12, 2018

Id probably say too much N in that but if youre growing monsters they will probably be fine..

Jack T.Ripper · Nov 12, 2018

That list is exhaustive, at least half aren’t even necessary, less is more, KISS.

Switcher56 · Nov 12, 2018

If I was growing outdoors and wanted a no till (hope that is the right expression) soil. I would test at harvest time and amend as required (shortages) for next season.

TychoMonolyth · Nov 12, 2018

For pots and no feed, I use this.
https://youtu.be/ju6TDrMJxWU

In the field I spread my ferts now so they'll be ready for the crop next spring. This year I amended my holes, but that's not enough. If the surrounding soil doesn't have it, you end up with small plants.

Thankfully farmers are generous this time of year. Lol

Switcher56 · Nov 12, 2018

TychoMonolyth said:
For pots and no feed, I use this.
https://youtu.be/ju6TDrMJxWU

Ummm, a lot of chaff in the video

Perlite and vermiculite are 2 different beasts. Use one or the other??? When someone says that, it has a tendency to reduce ones credibility! He failed to understand the purpose of each component. Unless you live in an area of extreme arid conditions, vermiculite should be avoided in soil mixes. A better component that retains more water than perlite would be turface. Let's just say it (IMO/E) falls between perlite and vermiculite, for 2 reasons: not only does vermiculite retain too much water, it has a tendency to turn in to mush; and if you are using it for aeration it is the wrong component. Turface does not decompose and retains 40-50X its weight in water.

So, you can accomplish the same thing with only one component that does not disintegrate over time :tiphat:

St. Phatty · Nov 12, 2018

Talked with the staff at the local farm supply turned grow stores.

Said they sold a lot less soil in 2018, because people were learning to re-use last year's soil, instead of buying all new.

As it should be.

They probably bought enough in 2017 to last 3 years.

TychoMonolyth · Nov 12, 2018

Switcher56 said:
Ummm, a lot of chaff in the video Perlite and vermiculite are 2 different beasts. Use one or the other??? When someone says that, it has a tendency to reduce ones credibility! He failed to understand the purpose of each component. Unless you live in an area of extreme arid conditions, vermiculite should be avoided in soil mixes. A better component that retains more water than perlite would be turface. Let's just say it (IMO/E) falls between perlite and vermiculite, for 2 reasons: not only does vermiculite retain too much water, it has a tendency to turn in to mush; and if you are using it for aeration it is the wrong component. Turface does not decompose and retains 40-50X its weight in water.

So, you can accomplish the same thing with only one component that does not disintegrate over time

I've always used perlite. Apart from this year, we usually get rain every 2-3 weeks all summer.

Hort Tech · Nov 12, 2018

old soil is at friends place and he is using it next year so I'm starting fresh.

dank.frank · Nov 12, 2018

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8361340&postcount=14

For the OP:

dank.frank said:
The first formula, will tell us how much of any given amendment to apply to achieve a desired nutrient level within a known planting area.

[(pounds per acre needed/square foot in an acre) x sq ft to be fertilized] / elemental percentage of fertilizer being applied

Example: A soil test says you need to apply 120 lbs per acre of P. You decide to use steamed bone meal. 2-14-0. Let's assume you have a 2' x 5' soil bed, so 10 sq ft.

[(120 lb/acre / 43,560 sq ft/acre) x 10 sq ft] / 0.14 = 0.1968 lbs of 2-14-0 steamed bone meal to provide 120 lbs of P to the 10 sq ft bed.

However, notice we also applied nitrogen in the bone meal. So that brings us to the second necessary formula, which is a simple 3 part process.

A. weight of fertilizer applied x percent of elemental nutrition
B. Square Foot per acre / square foot fertilized
C. A x B

To continue with the example above, in the process of applying the bone meal to get 120 lbs of P, we also added:

A. 0.1968 lbs bone meal x 0.02 (nitrogen) = 0.0004
B. 43,560 sq ft per acre / 10 sq ft = 4,356
C. 0.004 x 4,356 = 17.424 lbs of N applied

This post should help you a bit if you actually have a soil test and know what base NPK values you are trying to hit. Honestly, just reading that thread in general would help a lot of people.

dank.Frank

CrushnYuba · Nov 12, 2018

I pull 5-10lb plants ALL DAY with just
Chicken manure
Bone meal
Langbeinite
Alfalfa
No compost tea. Couple simple cheap top dressings in late veg and flower. Watered on drip.

My base mix is something like
1 part lava rock
1 part perlite
1 part coco
1 part fir bark or peat
2 parts compost of some sort. Cow manure, mushroom compost, vermi, greenwaste

Get it in bulk delivered by dump truck. Each truck and transfer can bring 40 cubic yards. Couple of them and your gold.

TychoMonolyth · Nov 13, 2018

CrushnYuba said:
I pull 5-10lb plants ALL DAY with just
Chicken manure
Bone meal
Langbeinite
Alfalfa
No compost tea. Couple simple cheap top dressings in late veg and flower. Watered on drip.

My base mix is something like
1 part lava rock
1 part perlite
1 part coco
1 part fir bark or peat
2 parts compost of some sort. Cow manure, mushroom compost, vermi, greenwaste

Get it in bulk delivered by dump truck. Each truck and transfer can bring 40 cubic yards. Couple of them and your gold.

Nice. How long do they veg before you put them out?
Location?

CrushnYuba · Nov 13, 2018

TychoMonolyth said:
Nice. How long do they veg before you put them out?
Location?

Norcal. All veg is done in a heated greenhouse with 90f daytime temps. Only time i ever have a plant inside is rooting clones. Seeds are usually started in feb in 15 gal smart pots and planted in early May. Clones are taken in early March. Planted early to late May depending on if the garden has lights. Plants always are in aggressive growth. If i ever have a plant slow down, i replace it.

TychoMonolyth · Nov 13, 2018

Many thanks CrushnYuba. Do you top them a few times?

Now that we can grow in the open, I want to try a few monsters up here.

CrushnYuba · Nov 13, 2018

TychoMonolyth said:
Many thanks CrushnYuba. Do you top them a few times?

Now that we can grow in the open, I want to try a few monsters up here.

I don't want to get too off track because this thread was about amendments. I try to top as little as possible. It slows growth and messes with structure. A plant will naturally want to grow into a ball with lots of tops unless it is crowded at some point. This goes for foliage and roots. If you veg them in a packed greenhouse in small pots or transplant into small final pots you will need to top.

If i ever top, it's just 1 time after it gets transplanted.

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