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Big Cannabis biz will continue to cage people meanwhile they monopolize the market?
- Thread starter shaggyballs
- Start date
geneva_sativa
Well-known member
strange days indeed here on IC
JimmyToucan
Member
It doesn't need to be "dominated" by mom and pops, but as in the produce or alcohol industry they should at least be given the opportunity to succeed. If their product sucks then they go under. Craft breweries survive and thrive. Local farms that specialize in certain crops do well for themselves. Why should it be any different for cannabis? I can buy shit bacon from a factory farm bit I'd rather go down the road and get the real deal. If I wanted good dope and couldn't grow my own I wouldn't go to CVS.
The majority of the customers want to stretch their dollar, otherwise places like Walmart would not exist. There is however enough of a market share for those that produce excellent quality products, and in many cases its not just quality, but where it came from and how it was produced. More and more people actually give a shit as to where that slab of pork came from and how it was raised. They want to know if their fruits and vegetables are grown without roundup laden soil. There's also the point of keeping your money local and supporting the economy around you. This is where the "cottage industry" comes in and there is a rightful concern that it is being stripped away by a bunch of money grubbing jackwads that only concern themselves with the bottom line. Let them peddle their inferior mainstream product, so long as those with the gumption, knowledge and care for their product have their shot at making a living as well.
This is coming from someone who has worked for and run small local type businesses catering to people within a ~50 mile radius. I've seen the demand grow and thrive in the agriculture industry, where mass produced trucked in product has fallen out of favor. Homegrown is a niche market for sure, and there will always be a need for cheaper products produced on a grand scale, but that doesn't mean the two can't coexist. The people that I've worked with and even competed with aren't looking to take down the big grocery stores, they just want their little slice of American pie. The fact that small producers in the canna industry are being stomped out by deep pockets is a legitimate issue, and one that doesn't have to be that way. Its a multi-billion dollar industry. Plenty to go around.
End rant.
Legalization, the way it's going, is still globally sporadic..
The map does look much better than it did 10 years ago, particularly within the USA on a state level, and most of us hope this trend continues to the point where federal law will have to change. Once that happens, you may well see a raft of other countries legalizing, and developing their own cannabis industries. There is still a long-long way to go, to get the whole world to realize that cannabis legalization is a good thing, but the USA is helping to show how this can happen....gradually.
I think that it's almost impossible to accurately gauge how much cannabis the world will want or need, once legalization is in effect. For sure it will be a growing market, with many curious people partaking, who would not when it was illegal, and also a lot of booze drinkers may well forsake their chosen poison for cannabis instead.
Various wealthy interests are bound to want to exploit, what is and will be an exploding market for cannabis, and I am sure that the majority of those that grow now, will still be growing into legalization, and if they are real good, and produce outstanding plants, then they will find a ready market for a superior product, if they want to grow and sell.
You may start to see state-sponsored cannabis produced and distributed within a nation, and that might be the only cannabis allowed, as had been done with alcohol and tobacco, in some countries.
I hope that the free-open-market attitude towards cannabis production and sale is reflected within the laws, to encourage the smaller grower, if he/she wishes to continue with or create a business, without bogging them down with too much red tape and taxes.
Most growers just grow for themselves, and perhaps a couple of patients or friends as well.....I don't see that changing.
The map does look much better than it did 10 years ago, particularly within the USA on a state level, and most of us hope this trend continues to the point where federal law will have to change. Once that happens, you may well see a raft of other countries legalizing, and developing their own cannabis industries. There is still a long-long way to go, to get the whole world to realize that cannabis legalization is a good thing, but the USA is helping to show how this can happen....gradually.
I think that it's almost impossible to accurately gauge how much cannabis the world will want or need, once legalization is in effect. For sure it will be a growing market, with many curious people partaking, who would not when it was illegal, and also a lot of booze drinkers may well forsake their chosen poison for cannabis instead.
Various wealthy interests are bound to want to exploit, what is and will be an exploding market for cannabis, and I am sure that the majority of those that grow now, will still be growing into legalization, and if they are real good, and produce outstanding plants, then they will find a ready market for a superior product, if they want to grow and sell.
You may start to see state-sponsored cannabis produced and distributed within a nation, and that might be the only cannabis allowed, as had been done with alcohol and tobacco, in some countries.
I hope that the free-open-market attitude towards cannabis production and sale is reflected within the laws, to encourage the smaller grower, if he/she wishes to continue with or create a business, without bogging them down with too much red tape and taxes.
Most growers just grow for themselves, and perhaps a couple of patients or friends as well.....I don't see that changing.
seeded
Active member
They'll try to stomp out small time growers by saying that the new national cannabis agency can't keep up with all the paper work, random inspections, enforcement of regulations, etc. if they allow the home growing of cannabis to occur. They'll argue that the only way to have it be federally legal is if there's a controlled monopoly run by the government and that it's either that or nothing while you remain a member of the united nations.
When they try that bullshit say isn't it wonderful how cannabis is already providing jobs with long term security? How now that it's legal for every adult that there's no need to isolate the plant from people over the fear of it going to the black market? You guys really need to demand that with no black market to fear every license applicant get treated as innocent until proven guilty and try to use the national agency to your advantage such as getting them to use their buying power to import a ton of seed really cheaply, selling your own genetics through them, reporting everything as a grow diary, have them do the lab testing, etc. I'm probably an idealist thinking that's possible but if you push a win for the people and not big business hard enough you never know what'll happen.
When they try that bullshit say isn't it wonderful how cannabis is already providing jobs with long term security? How now that it's legal for every adult that there's no need to isolate the plant from people over the fear of it going to the black market? You guys really need to demand that with no black market to fear every license applicant get treated as innocent until proven guilty and try to use the national agency to your advantage such as getting them to use their buying power to import a ton of seed really cheaply, selling your own genetics through them, reporting everything as a grow diary, have them do the lab testing, etc. I'm probably an idealist thinking that's possible but if you push a win for the people and not big business hard enough you never know what'll happen.
JimmyToucan
Member
This.
I'd like to see it go by the way of small scale agricultural producers. For instance, in NY there are provisions for poultry producers where a 1000 bird limit (250 for turkeys) allows you to hatch, raise, butcher and sell direct to consumer without a ton of hassle. A basic business license is all the red tape you go through, along with carrying a basic liability policy. If slaughtering your own there are some health rules to follow but nothing that can't be easily managed. Pork is a bit different in that you sell the entire animal or a portion of it (usually halves or quarters) up front with the agreement that you will raise it and deliver it to a "custom" butcher. If you want to sell individual cuts as in retail it has to go to a USDA inspected facility, but even that is reasonable. These fairly simple rules allow anyone with the ambition and skill to afford themselves a modest living without having to jump through hoops. Larger scale operations have more oversight but that's to be expected, especially since for the most part they are no longer a direct to consumer business only.
Like myself I think there's plenty of people who would like to be able to supply a small number of people/patients as many do already and not have to be regulated to death. Small operators generally have a close relationship with their customers and keep things on the up and up in order to maintain those ties. I have no problem with being expected to pay my share of taxes on my income, I'm just looking to survive doing something that I love. The idea of being pushed out and sent into the shadows by those with the cash and influence to run a massive enterprise is unsettling. Small businesses are the core of many small communities, supporting the local economy and bringing in customers that may not normally add to it. Not just for cannabis but all kinds of ventures. There's literally billions at stake here...no reason the wealth can't be shared at least a little bit.
This little thing called greed and control, they are 2 very good reasons for some to not want to let everyone have a small slice of pie!
It is taking place right now in some states.
Like 1-2 growers for the whole state....boy wouldn't it be nice to get a piece of that billion dollar pie.
Who knows?..Maybe the federal government will start putting out 'Hemp for Victory' films again, just like they did in the 1940's, and growers can be subsidized and encouraged to grow the plant once again?
'That'll be the Day'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9FCBatl3A
'That'll be the Day'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9FCBatl3A
What would you know about if i smoke or if i do not smoke and at the end of the day what business is it really of yours ? .
kinda sounds sillylots of people grow it and do not smoke it.
an many people grow 1 plant, or thousands
but lets put it in perspective the average med prescription is 1 - 3 grams per day lets use 3 grams per day
a person grows one plant and harvests 7 pounds how far will that carry him in meds
454 x 7 =3178 dry grams divide that by 3 grams per day 1059 days
lets use 30 days a month figure 90 grams smoked per month or 35 months of meds wow new meaning to growing weed for your self
one word endless supply of your own meds
But todas grower is also about and lets be honest suplimenting there income .
Because why ? well there on some disability gov program Aish ?? that pays pennies a day
Everybody wants this but when it comes tax time they feel they should be exempt .. because the world or Gov owes them something .
Kinda a double standard don't you think we scream because corporation some how find loop holes and get away from paying taxes and we scream there crooks and it should not be allowed
I live and do grow in a illegal country , that i hope changes to legal and yes even one plant i will be happy with an trust me have grown thousands of plants at one time .
In my time
But that is another story .
I think growers would shit if they could track there pounds and see which hands it eventually lands on what crimes may or may not have used with it ..
Then when it comes to Federal laws everyone screaming about personally? the ones screaming for it surely are not the ones happy to grow there 6 - 12 plant limit ..
Its the ones growing over the limit and being saved when they move the pounds to other states where they can fetch a pretty penny..
This is what its really all about
Anyone thinking other wise is a fool .. But hey who would ever think that if or when it does get taken off the federal schedule list,
Might just back fire in your faces
Because now Who knows Countries like Mexico , Cuba and Canada start flooding your states with cheaper just as good MJ and driving your prices down because you allowed competition to enter ..
Think about ??
This is why i say leave it your better off cause trust me the above will happen .. why the hell do you think USA and Cuba all of a sudden become friends again lol for the cigars ?
And if we look at Walmart as a example who in there right mind is going to pay 120 bucks for made in usa Jeans when you can get the same quality but 5 more pairs of jeans for that price.
So it will eventually be god dam same as it always been you come up with a great idea yet it slips away and becomes made in another country and sent to you ..
Again these are just my views and like any member can express his views aslong as he is not attacking anyone in general
and like i said you will of had the mj industry in your hands and let it fall from your hands an trust me be much cheaper to grow in countries like Mexico, Cuba etc
And many growers that started business will go bankrupt because of it
JimmyToucan
Member
Right. I should have stated "there should be no reason...." Unfortunately that's not the way of the world these days. It's a sad state of affairs.
JimmyToucan
Member
Sadly we're more likely to get Reefer Madness Part Two, sponsored by big pharma.
Is Marijuana The New Cash Crop?
Bob Dillard noticed something important, I think, that also happened on November 8 concerning marijuana legalization:
"At what point do we begin recognizing the tremendous number of our fellow citizens who now can use a cash crop that is transforming the economies of Colorado, Oregon, Washington and now over 12 percent of the population in California, plus Massachusetts, Nevada, Maine as well as Florida, North Dakota. It's clearly a growth industry with a giant upside that will only continue to grow."
Bob, you make a great point. Recreational and medical marijuana measures passed in numerous and varied states. I do not think this is going to become a big money maker for ordinary farmers.
I may be one of the few of my generation who did no experiment with marijuana in the 60's and 70's or since, believe it or not. I'm relying on excellent information from Michael Pollan's book, The Botany of Desire.
His explanation of marijuana breeding and production soon dispels any dream a lucrative cash crop for ordinary row crop farmers. High quality marijuana production is almost entirely done in greenhouses with intensive lights, just like most profitable vegetables are grown under irrigation. There are growers producing outside, but the lower electricity costs are offset by higher security expenses.
The breeding is highly sophisticated and as scientific as corn hybrids.
Production is also labor intensive, and highly regulated - aspects most farmers dislike. But most of all, big companies including tobacco giants have been poised for legalization for years and will bring enormous financial and technical assets to dominate the market.
It only takes relatively few acres, unlike grains. While local marijuana will still be grown, like backyard gardens, the big market will be served by bigger players.
There is simply too much money to be made to be ignored by big business. States will likely encourage this industrialization to simplify regulation and maximize tax revenue. I support legalization, but don't expect it to save many family farms.
Bob Dillard noticed something important, I think, that also happened on November 8 concerning marijuana legalization:
"At what point do we begin recognizing the tremendous number of our fellow citizens who now can use a cash crop that is transforming the economies of Colorado, Oregon, Washington and now over 12 percent of the population in California, plus Massachusetts, Nevada, Maine as well as Florida, North Dakota. It's clearly a growth industry with a giant upside that will only continue to grow."
Bob, you make a great point. Recreational and medical marijuana measures passed in numerous and varied states. I do not think this is going to become a big money maker for ordinary farmers.
I may be one of the few of my generation who did no experiment with marijuana in the 60's and 70's or since, believe it or not. I'm relying on excellent information from Michael Pollan's book, The Botany of Desire.
His explanation of marijuana breeding and production soon dispels any dream a lucrative cash crop for ordinary row crop farmers. High quality marijuana production is almost entirely done in greenhouses with intensive lights, just like most profitable vegetables are grown under irrigation. There are growers producing outside, but the lower electricity costs are offset by higher security expenses.
The breeding is highly sophisticated and as scientific as corn hybrids.
Production is also labor intensive, and highly regulated - aspects most farmers dislike. But most of all, big companies including tobacco giants have been poised for legalization for years and will bring enormous financial and technical assets to dominate the market.
It only takes relatively few acres, unlike grains. While local marijuana will still be grown, like backyard gardens, the big market will be served by bigger players.
There is simply too much money to be made to be ignored by big business. States will likely encourage this industrialization to simplify regulation and maximize tax revenue. I support legalization, but don't expect it to save many family farms.
seeded
Active member
There's only big money in cannabis if prohibition is enforced. If you can't grow enough for yourself and the big boys can't flood the market in a race to the bottom there will be black market like prices for cannabis in the future. If however there is a race to the bottom and people grow however much they damn well please then you're going to see an ounce of distilled oil sold to the public for $100 or less when bought in bulk and flowers will essentially be worthless when a pound could be profitably sold for under $100 as well. You just know someone will try to corner the cheapest and good enough market and try to flood the competition out of business if allowed like that and while there will still be a market for higher quality products, genetics, etc. we're going to have to get used to much lower prices otherwise people will just go with good enough.
The limits the UN's convention on narcotics puts upon the legal cultivation of cannabis are really starting to make great business sense. Not only do they get a monopoly but without being allowed to stockpile they also get to control supply vs demand and therefor the price they can charge too. I swear legalization is the ultimate long con...
The limits the UN's convention on narcotics puts upon the legal cultivation of cannabis are really starting to make great business sense. Not only do they get a monopoly but without being allowed to stockpile they also get to control supply vs demand and therefor the price they can charge too. I swear legalization is the ultimate long con...
JimmyToucan
Member
Recreational and medicinal cannabis may not be a boon to the average farmer, but hemp sure as hell would. And even then...don't sell these people short; it wouldn't take but a 30'x100' hoophouse normally used for wintering hardy greens easily converted for a more profitable use, using the same techniques utilized in many other facets of their business.
Unfortunately, small farmers, regardless of what they grow are at a disadvantage which is a shame. Small businesses in general fae an uphill battle, especially those that supply us with our food.
THIS WAS STATED IN 2012
Seems others have seen what the future holds.
yup. for the average farmer, hemp will be at the forefront. as you say, though, a man could earn some extra $ with not a very large greenhouse. the black market will always exist. govt over-taxation/regulation guarantees it. you can buy any craft beer/single barrel whiskey etc you want in a govt approved store. that has not in the least hurt moonshiners that know what they are doing...
Big Cannabis biz will continue to cage people meanwhile they monopolize the market.
This has been gaining momentum recently.
Systematically eliminate the competition.
The situation is just sad.
This has been gaining momentum recently.
Systematically eliminate the competition.
The situation is just sad.
PDX Dopesmoker
Active member
Don't give them the idea to charge me a licensing fee for my vegetable garden.
