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HLG Scorpion Diablo vs. HLG 650R question

B

BotanicalBill

Member
Hey all, I am wondering why, exactly, the Scorpion Diablo is made for lower ceiling/vertical applications compared to the 650R?

I see the Scorpion Diablo uses 6xQB648 Quantum boards and the 650R uses 4xCustom quantum boards w/ Samsung LM301H (white) and LH351Hs (red)..

So obviously it has something to do with the characteristics of the LEDs being used so I am wondering if anyone knows why one is better than the other for lower ceilings?

Ultimately I am trying to decide which of the two to get.. The ceiling of my box is about 74 inches...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Koondense

Koondense

Well-known member
Veteran
More leds for diablo means lower light intensity, if you look at the design it is made for more even dispersion while the 650R has plates more close so the light cone will be more intense in the middle thus needing higher distance to canopy compared to the diablo.

Both look nice but i prefer the diablo design, not the price though :)



Cheers
 
F

Fire Fox

New member
4×4 at 18 inches
 

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f-e

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
They spread out the 600w over a larger area. So you don't need to hang it so high to get the coverage. Or indeed to hang it so high so it's not so intense at any particular spot underneath it. Both offer about the same output. It's just packaging.

Looking from another angle, we could light a meter with a single 600w cob hung high above it to get some spread. Or we could get a light unit as big as the grow with individual leds spread evenly across it. Such a light could be hung a lot lower.
 
f-e

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
It looks alright, but it's size isn't as flexible as using a number of smaller units, should your grow change shape. It's 6 units together and in fact I use 6 separate ones to do the same job. It cost half as much to.

Mars use the same leds with quality drivers. I think they have some long thin 320w units you may like. All their model names bare little resemblance to the products though. Perhaps you just can't be arsed to trawl through them all :)
 
B

BotanicalBill

Member
I ended up going with the Scorpion Diablo taking advantage over their 20% off Black Friday deal..

f-e, did you buy those boards from HLG to build your own? I didn't see any kits of their latest QB on their site.. I wouldnt mind doing something like that in the future. I will grab/build another if this one works out.
 
f-e

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
I followed the trail back to China. Where the 288 boards originate. The Meanwell's are made there and the LED's are almost next door. Cheap labour market. It's why all the lights we buy are from there. We can put the last screw in locally and say it's made here but it's still rebranded stuff we can find ourselves in China. Who were selling me the LM301H boards a year before HLG got them. It seems to be only HLG that have moved from a decent heatsink to a flat bit plate in many designs which costs us light output and longevity through running too hot. There branding and cost are climbing towards the top but as kit goes, it's not always that good. I notice they are moving away from Meanwell now to. I imagine there buying power has put price demands upon there suppliers that mean top bin led's can't be used now, even if the paperwork says they have been. I just don't have faith in the brand as a whole. Not when I can pay $120 for a 240w (at the led) QB set using 301H on a proper finned heatsink and using external dimming Meanwell drivers. That's $170 shipped though, in 3-5 days.
 
B

BotanicalBill

Member
Thanks for the info there, f-e. Is AliBaba where most people are grabbing their gear for DIY setups? A buddy of mine is an electrical engineer and he built one from scratch a few years ago that worked great, so he would be able to help me if needed. I am fairly well versed in electronics and do not have a fear of trying to build my own.

Thanks again
 
f-e

f-e

Well-known member
Mentor
Veteran
There are 3 good suppliers on Aliexpress. I like Kingbrite. There idea of kit form is probably our idea of already assembled. You can unbox assemble and hang about 10 an hour.

For assembled lights I would look to... oh I forgot. He sponsors the forum. He has shaped his product around our desire for Meanwell and Samsung for little money. Nope... it's gone
 
P

Phagoos

Member
If you want to go the quality DIY route without spending too much you should check out Bridgelux EB2 or EB3 strips combined with a Meanwell driver.
At nominal current these strips don't need cooling, are pretty efficient and cheap.
Their main problem is that they are too popular :biggrin:.
 
B

BotanicalBill

Member
Thanks, guys. I was thinking about maybe some strips as side lighting.. wasn't sure if they can operate in that position or not.. After checking out Ali I am kinda regretting my purchase but it is being delivered today so it is what it is.. I still have another 600 HPS I need to replace so I think I will go a DIY route from here..
 
indagroove

indagroove

Active member
Veteran
f-e said:
It looks alright, but it's size isn't as flexible as using a number of smaller units, should your grow change shape. It's 6 units together and in fact I use 6 separate ones to do the same job. It cost half as much to.

Mars use the same leds with quality drivers. I think they have some long thin 320w units you may like. All their model names bare little resemblance to the products though. Perhaps you just can't be arsed to trawl through them all :)
Click to expand...

I also agree that having one fixture with 6 boards isn't as flexible as individual boards. I also run 6 separate boards in a 4x4 space.

I disagree with the assertion that Mars uses the same diodes as HLG, they don't. While they may both use LM301H diodes, HLG only uses top bin diodes, and Mars self-admittedly does not. That's a 10% to 15% difference in photon output for "the same diodes"; plus that's only for flux bin, and doesn't even consider voltage bin. Another point, is that while Mars does finally use Meanwell drivers, they use a lower quality series compared to HLG.

f-e said:
I followed the trail back to China. Where the 288 boards originate. The Meanwell's are made there and the LED's are almost next door. Cheap labour market. It's why all the lights we buy are from there. We can put the last screw in locally and say it's made here but it's still rebranded stuff we can find ourselves in China. Who were selling me the LM301H boards a year before HLG got them. It seems to be only HLG that have moved from a decent heatsink to a flat bit plate in many designs which costs us light output and longevity through running too hot. There branding and cost are climbing towards the top but as kit goes, it's not always that good. I notice they are moving away from Meanwell now to. I imagine there buying power has put price demands upon there suppliers that mean top bin led's can't be used now, even if the paperwork says they have been. I just don't have faith in the brand as a whole. Not when I can pay $120 for a 240w (at the led) QB set using 301H on a proper finned heatsink and using external dimming Meanwell drivers. That's $170 shipped though, in 3-5 days.
Click to expand...

HLG invented the QB288, and got the first run of H diodes, so not sure what makes you think they were in China first. Also HLG prints their own QB288 boards in the US. The QB648 boards are printed by Samsung, mostly in S Korea. HLG is working directly with Samsung now, and will have a new diode soon. This diode is going to be specific to the needs of horticulture first, instead of using diodes which were created for lighting people first. HLG will have these new Samsung diodes before anyone else. Also in terms of drivers, HLG will soon have their own custom driver, which will allow the Scorpion RSpec at 650watts like the Diablo instead of the current 600 which is limited by the driver specs.
 
Quitters

Quitters

Member
indagroove said:
HLG is working directly with Samsung now, and will have a new diode soon. This diode is going to be specific to the needs of horticulture first, instead of using diodes which were created for lighting people first. HLG will have these new Samsung diodes before anyone else.
Click to expand...

Any guesstimated time frame on that next generation of diodes ?
 
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