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pH Down, Nitric or Phosphoric

Dropped Cat

Dropped Cat

Six Gummi Bears and Some Scotch
Veteran
Just like the title says, nitric or phosphoric.

Been using the nitric for a while and curious
to the benefit, if any, of one over the other.

12-15 drops per 64 oz of nute solution, yields
pH from 5.8 - 6.2 for me and my conditions.
 
superpedro

superpedro

Member
Veteran
Both do the job.
In most cases, you don´t use a lot. And it shouldn't matter that much what you use.
Besides acid, one delivers N and the other one P. Why many use Nitric in veg and Phosphoric in flower.
Personally, I don't care and use Phosphoric all the way. Plenty of N in my soil for veg. And worst case could be too much, bringing difficulty/slow flip to flower.
 
S

Sign

Member
Where do you get the 85%? Best I've found is klean strip from home depot and that's about half that
 
troutman

troutman

Seed Whore
Sign said:
Where do you get the 85%? Best I've found is klean strip from home depot and that's about half that
Click to expand...

Check hydroponic stores or online.

I use phosphoric acid.

Reason: There's already too much nitrogen in most fertilizers already.
 
Cvh

Cvh

Well-known member
Supermod
Nitric during veg and Phosphoric during flowering.
Nitric will break down to N and Phosphoric to P.

Personally I only used Phosphoric during veg and flowering when I was still growing with synthetic nutrients.

You can get these products in hydrostores or online grow/hydro shops. I think you might even can find these on eBay or Amazon...
 
Emil Muzz

Emil Muzz

Member
Which to use depends on water hardness.

Nitric acid if you have hard water will react with the calcium into calcium nitrate which your plants can make use of.
Phosphoric acid in hard water will react with calcium into calcium phosphate which is insoluble and will precipitate.
Sulphuric acid in hard water will react with calcium into calcium sulphate which is insoluble and will precipitate.

So basically, for Hard water use Nitric acid; and for Soft water you can use either nitric or phosphoric acid depending on the plants needs.
 
D

Dirt Bag

Member
Emil Muzz said:
Which to use depends on water hardness.

Nitric acid if you have hard water will react with the calcium into calcium nitrate which your plants can make use of.
Phosphoric acid in hard water will react with calcium into calcium phosphate which is insoluble and will precipitate.
Sulphuric acid in hard water will react with calcium into calcium sulphate which is insoluble and will precipitate.

So basically, for Hard water use Nitric acid; and for Soft water you can use either nitric or phosphoric acid depending on the plants needs.
Click to expand...

Your intent is well placed but your wording makes these statements incorrect.
None of the reactions mentioned happen at proper dilutions. There is calcium in nutrients. We even add calcium (CalMag) and never have any precipitations.
These amounts are also not enough for plants to even notice, nutritionally speaking.
So it makes absolutely no difference which you use as long as you use it properly. The only considerations IMHO are availability and price.
 
MrBungle

MrBungle

Active member
The condition of the water and the pH are 2 different things.. If you raise the pH of soft water with something like Ksil, you will still have to adjust the pH down, so you don't create precipitates when making your nutrient solution
 
P

Pinnate

'Soft' is generally assumed to be about 6.5, which seems acceptable?
 
MrBungle

MrBungle

Active member
pH indicator drops are cheap enough to not have to assume... I think its best to test if you are unsure.... The condition of the water will probably affect the amount of pH up or down you will have to use to make the correction
 
D

Dirt Bag

Member
Pinnate said:
'Soft' is generally assumed to be about 6.5, which seems acceptable?
Click to expand...

There is no correlation between hardness and pH.
Hardness (and softness) refer to the amount of dissolved solids, specifically calcium and magnesium, in water. Typically measured in parts per million, or ppm.
pH is short for "Potential Hydrogen" and relates to acidity and alkalinity. It's measured on a scale from 0 to 14 with 7 being neutral, the pH of pure, room temperature water. Pure Acid would be 0 and pure Lye would be 14.
The amounts of acid or alkalines needed to adjust the pH depend upon several factors. Municipalities introduce many different substances to tap water including disinfectants and pH buffers.
Removing the unknowns (or knowns) from water prior to usage will eliminate the problems associated with them and ensure easy adjustments of pH.
NOTE: Reverse Osmosis water pH cannot be measured by pH meters! Electronic pH meters measure electrical conductivity. Pure water is an insulator. Electricity does not travel through water, but through the impurities suspended within it.
You will pull your hair out trying to adjust RO water. You must add some dissolved solids, which is a large part of reason we use approximately 7 parts RO water to 1 part tap water.
Our tap water is 7.8pH, 250ppm, and has chloromines and pH buffers. Once diluted this makes ideal cloner water. The minute amount of dissolved solids are ample for root development, the minute amount of chloromines keeps the ickies away nicely, and with just the smallest amount of, now simple adjustment, the pH stays put, thanks to the buffers.
 
Emil Muzz

Emil Muzz

Member
Dirt Bag said:
Your intent is well placed but your wording makes these statements incorrect.
None of the reactions mentioned happen at proper dilutions. There is calcium in nutrients. We even add calcium (CalMag) and never have any precipitations.
These amounts are also not enough for plants to even notice, nutritionally speaking.
So it makes absolutely no difference which you use as long as you use it properly. The only considerations IMHO are availability and price.
Click to expand...


Dirt Bag- In the UK many places have water so hard you could pour phosphoric acid into it and watch the precipitate form.
As to the nutritional benefits- I said it is up to you as a grower to work out what your plant needs. The problem with precipitation is the precipitated nutrients are lost to the plants and they will suffer and the precipitate blocks lines and pumps.

All of the information I have shared comes from Canna's site. And as a company they have plenty of experience with Ganja and many other agricultural crops. Perhaps you should put down the bong and get your reading glasses on...?
 
MrBungle

MrBungle

Active member
Water condition was the improper term to use... Dirt Bag nailed it with Water Hardness, and was correct about the no correlation between the water hardness and pH....other than you may need more pH adjuster for water that is harder
 
D

Dirt Bag

Member
Emil Muzz said:
Dirt Bag- In the UK many places have water so hard you could pour phosphoric acid into it and watch the precipitate form.
As to the nutritional benefits- I said it is up to you as a grower to work out what your plant needs. The problem with precipitation is the precipitated nutrients are lost to the plants and they will suffer and the precipitate blocks lines and pumps.

All of the information I have shared comes from Canna's site. And as a company they have plenty of experience with Ganja and many other agricultural crops. Perhaps you should put down the bong and get your reading glasses on...?
Click to expand...

Notice I said "properly". Pouring undiluted acid into tap water isn't proper, even on an island. No amount of harness in consumable water will cause properly diluted acid (pH adjuster) to precipitate. If the dissolved solids in your water are so bad that diluted acid precipitates them your problems are much greater than simply adjusting pH. Adjusting the pH isn't causing calcification. It happens anytime there are dissolved solids in water that evaporated. Perhaps you should move. Oh, and keep buying commercially. You sound like a great customer.
 
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