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A room full of swinging dicks...

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
interesting project but i dont see how the hell you are going to avoid the different strains' pollen from contaminating each other. even lifting one of those males out from that bunch is going to spread pollen over all the other plants! looks like a logistical nightmare to me but good luck with it.

VG

Hey VG! I hope to get 80-90% accuracy with this project. That would be shitty if I was making commercial seeds, but for me, as long as the offspring grow, so that I can flower and view their traits, I really don't care to know the absolute lineage with 100% certainty. It kinda goes to hype thing others have talked about, so that I can tell others (to sell or promote using someones name or work). A fire strain is a fire strain, and it is funny how many breeder descriptions give the possibility of an unknown parent.

I have decided to not shake over glass, as this would make cross contamination even worse. I have so many tops on each plant that I am going to start just cutting branches and hand filtering the sacks. I am obvisously not an expert on males by any means. Just a dude trying to collect as much pollen possible, from as many strains as possible and in the most accurate manner possible.

Thanks for stopping by! Do you have any photos of your best males with a bit of description on why you find the traits to be desirable?

WFF
 

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
Thug Pug - Catcus Breath

Thug Pug - Catcus Breath

This one male was the absolute stand out of the pack for this strain. It is the +30% cut of Cactus x Mendo Breath. None of the plants showed ANY breath traits, and this particular male just seemed to have a wallet that said "Bad Motherfucker".

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dc2569

Member
here are some macro pics of my swinging dick. unfortunately i dont have a room full!
 

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VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Hey VG! I hope to get 80-90% accuracy with this project. That would be shitty if I was making commercial seeds, but for me, as long as the offspring grow, so that I can flower and view their traits, I really don't care to know the absolute lineage with 100% certainty. It kinda goes to hype thing others have talked about, so that I can tell others (to sell or promote using someones name or work). A fire strain is a fire strain, and it is funny how many breeder descriptions give the possibility of an unknown parent.

I have decided to not shake over glass, as this would make cross contamination even worse. I have so many tops on each plant that I am going to start just cutting branches and hand filtering the sacks. I am obvisously not an expert on males by any means. Just a dude trying to collect as much pollen possible, from as many strains as possible and in the most accurate manner possible.

Thanks for stopping by! Do you have any photos of your best males with a bit of description on why you find the traits to be desirable?

WFF

hi again WFF, yes i understand that, if the seeds are just for you to sort through, it is up to you how you make them etc.
I dont really agree about the 'hype' thing you talk about, imo it would be highly irresponsible to sell seeds of a cross unless you can be sure you know what the parents are and that there hasnt been any cross-contamination of pollen. i only ever work with one strain's pollen at any one time to avoid that.
As for selecting males, i usually don't, the only proper way of selecting males is through progeny testing, which i can't run the numbers to do properly.
The idea of choosing a single male because you like the look of it is not great practice for breeding projects, and making single female/single male crosses narrows down the genetic diversity hugely and limits what further work can be worth doing to a line - so if i am using regular males i will use all of the decent males i have at my disposal. By doing this i am keeping as much diversity i am able, and also keeping some variation for me or others to make selections from if further work is done such as line breeding.

Females are obviously easier to judge than males for phenotypic value and this is why i also like reversing females for pollen to make Feminised crosses. People seem to disapprove of using elite clones for crosses but why wouldn't you? elite clones have been tried and tested for years, and kept purely on their merit!

I have also used other people's males that have been tried and tested and proven (obviously with their permission) Here is Leptosoma's 'Fatboy' sour bubble male which is used in my 'Fat Bubba' cross - quite a looker! (pic by Leptosoma)

good luck with your project
VG

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Chevy cHaze

Out Of Dankness Cometh Light
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I like the "ballsy"approach hahaha !!!
Bit difficult with the separation maybe, but then again... you'll have a gazillion seeds to search through for at least 500 years !

Good luck and good to see some full grown studs, I have never had the chance to do that
CC
 

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for your comments VG!

hi again WFF, yes i understand that, if the seeds are just for you to sort through, it is up to you how you make them etc.
I dont really agree about the 'hype' thing you talk about, imo it would be highly irresponsible to sell seeds of a cross unless you can be sure you know what the parents are and that there hasnt been any cross-contamination of pollen. i only ever work with one strain's pollen at any one time to avoid that.

I 100% agree about being irresponsible to sell seeds with questionable origins. My comment pertained to breeders that have a description like "My Polynesian friend gave me a cookie clone that he said was..." or "from a bagseed at a concert in the 90s" or many other creative ways to say that they are unsure about the parents. Hell, leafy has a TON of elites that it does not have strain background on.

I am not trying to defend my methods, as I know that cross-contamination is a huge problem. It would obviously be better (for purity reasons) to just work one. This is not a perfect world, and I personally think the benefits (genetic diversity) of this collection method far outway the negatives, which would be that I could not with 100% certainty claim lineage. But unless I am selling seeds...

As for selecting males, i usually don't, the only proper way of selecting males is through progeny testing, which i can't run the numbers to do properly.
The idea of choosing a single male because you like the look of it is not great practice for breeding projects, and making single female/single male crosses narrows down the genetic diversity hugely and limits what further work can be worth doing to a line - so if i am using regular males i will use all of the decent males i have at my disposal. By doing this i am keeping as much diversity i am able, and also keeping some variation for me or others to make selections from if further work is done such as line breeding.

This sounds alot like Dubi (head breeder)'s philosophy at Ace. I have MAD respect for him. I bought over 20 packs of Ace. His regular lines use multiple moms and multiple dads to produce the widest possible gene expression for this line. Is this good? Well, if you want to make seeds, it is fucking awesome because you get to see the range of pheno expressions. If you just want to grow 2-3 females, then it is not so good, because you will likely get something different than the breeder photos and descriptions. That is why Dubi often recommends people that have limited space run his Fem lines, which only have a single mom and a single reversed mom/dad.

For this project, I will do a bit of that for a few lines. I have 2 Panama males and 3 Panama females. I have 2 Zamaldelica males and a keeper female. I have 3 Watermelon Zum Zum males and 1 female. I have 3 Gorilla Dosha females. Genetic diversity is not the problem with this program.

Females are obviously easier to judge than males for phenotypic value and this is why i also like reversing females for pollen to make Feminised crosses. People seem to disapprove of using elite clones for crosses but why wouldn't you? elite clones have been tried and tested for years, and kept purely on their merit!

I used to be a huge advocate of NOT using feminized plants. This was mainly because the old techniques involved actual hermie plants. I educated myself on the process and came to see the value of hermaphroditism (in transfer of genetic material) and not plants with an expressive hermie trait. I ran 75-80 different Fem plants from about 15 breeder packs for this project. A few were unstable, like Crystal Cookies, but most were solid sexually (ie no hermie traits).

All that being said, using Fems for breeding is done for two primary reasons. One is to skip the difficult and time consuming step of progeny testing male offspring and the second is protect their propriety P1 stock. If you are reversing a female, then you are not getting an extact copy of genetic material, only an expression. Third and probably the most important is that the market wants (for space and easy to grow concerns) Fems, and breeders are responding to simple supply and demand.

I have also used other people's males that have been tried and tested and proven (obviously with their permission) Here is Leptosoma's 'Fatboy' sour bubble male which is used in my 'Fat Bubba' cross - quite a looker! (pic by Leptosoma)

That is a freak!!! BOG must have done a little black magic on that one!!!
 

mean mr.mustard

I Pass Satellites
Veteran
That is a great big sack of dacks.

Sour Bubble is my favorite night time smoke.

PS I love how the drama is totally subdued here. I'm truly glad to be here.

PPS I also think that males exhibit plenty of identifiable characteristics for selection.
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
cool stuff WFF!

if you did want to isolate some pollen from one strain, you could always cut a branch or two, wash off any existing pollen, and then stick them in a glass/bottle of water on a window sill or bright place somewhere else. new sacs would open over a few days and you could collect it that way.

VG
 

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
cool stuff WFF!

if you did want to isolate some pollen from one strain, you could always cut a branch or two, wash off any existing pollen, and then stick them in a glass/bottle of water on a window sill or bright place somewhere else. new sacs would open over a few days and you could collect it that way.

VG

Nice! What would be the best way to wash? Spray bottle or a quick dunk in distilled water? Should I remove all the leaves before placing in glass?

Do you think it would be harmful (moisture or nasties) to do as you described, but wrap the glass & branches in a thin plastic bag (like below)? Pollen would drop in bag and I could place a bunch of different strains next to each other this way.

https://www.amazon.com/Gallon-Bucket-Liner-Marinading-Brining/dp/B00J29FPVO/
 

VerdantGreen

Genetics Facilitator
Boutique Breeder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
either way would be fine, just try to shake as much water off afterwards and allow them to dry off fairly quickly. i would leave some of the leaf on there.

and yes standing in a bucket or similar to catch the pollen and keep separate should work pretty well as long as the air in the location is pretty still so pollen doesnt get blown about. it will just fall straight down and most will stay in the opened flowers until shaken or tapped out. you dont want to enclose them completely though as moisture/condensation will build up and the viability of the pollen may suffer.

you can also freeze collected pollen and it will stay viable for a year or more - although it does slowly lose it's viability. - stick some dried rice or dried silica gel in an airtight container and put the collected pollen in there on a wrap of paper. close up for a day or two in a warmish place, then put the pollen in a tiny vial or jar and freeze. if you are going to use within a week or two then you can just keep it in a paper wrap + ziplock bag in the fridge.

VG
 

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
Karma - Road Dawg

Karma - Road Dawg

Here is a big time stud from Icmag fam, the man, the myth, the legend - Karma. Road Dawg is Karma's selection of Top Dawg's Stardawg hit with his Biker Kush male. The females had it just about all going on, but did have weak stems that required heavy staking. This male is following suit and is a bit of a leaner.

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WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
Thug Pug - Meat Madness

Thug Pug - Meat Madness

Here is one of the most vigorous strains of ANY that I ran for this whole project. It's female's very nice, but a little bland. However, I really think that this is going to be breeding stock, as it has a lot hidden under the hood. It is Meat Loaf (GSC clone) x (Mendo Purps x Crystal Locomotive F3).

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WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
Tony Green - Gorilla Bubble Bx3

Tony Green - Gorilla Bubble Bx3

This strain is still one of top 3-4 personal smokes. It hits hard and deep and delivers max relaxation. Tony has been working this project back to the GG4 clone, so there is minimal Sour Bubble traits at this point.

EDIT - It is GG4 X (GG4 X (GG4 X (GG4 X Sour Bubble)))

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WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
DVG - False Teeth

DVG - False Teeth

False Teeth is a very nice cookie cross with wonderful flavor, dense nugs and decent stacking. This one leans to the breath side but not fully. It is Candyland x Grandpas Breath.

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WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
either way would be fine, just try to shake as much water off afterwards and allow them to dry off fairly quickly. i would leave some of the leaf on there.

and yes standing in a bucket or similar to catch the pollen and keep separate should work pretty well as long as the air in the location is pretty still so pollen doesnt get blown about. it will just fall straight down and most will stay in the opened flowers until shaken or tapped out. you dont want to enclose them completely though as moisture/condensation will build up and the viability of the pollen may suffer.

you can also freeze collected pollen and it will stay viable for a year or more - although it does slowly lose it's viability. - stick some dried rice or dried silica gel in an airtight container and put the collected pollen in there on a wrap of paper. close up for a day or two in a warmish place, then put the pollen in a tiny vial or jar and freeze. if you are going to use within a week or two then you can just keep it in a paper wrap + ziplock bag in the fridge.

VG

Great stuff VG! I am going to pick up 24x 5 gallon buckets tomorrow and start my pollen collection. I am now planning to cut the plants in 3 stages, about 3 days apart each stage. So, I will remove branches, rinse with water, air dry, place each strain in an individual bucket and then collect and process pollen. That will mean about 10 more days for the donkey show...

Do you think that light schedule or intensity matters for the cut branches to release pollen? I was planning on setting up an old 400 watt MH over the buckets in a still room.
 
G

Gr33nSanta

I like your style, that is what I do, I only use males if I love their sisters. On a smaller scale, much smaller..... This is actually discouraging, realizing so so many people have more space and do much better job than I do! Oh well, like buying a lottery ticket, I might get lucky.

One thing I am very curious about though, someone might know the answer, say you have a super stud, you clone it, flower one clone under optimal condition, and one clone by the window seal with marginal condition, would the pollen be has good? only less of it? I guess I already know the answer to my question, but maybe I am wrong.
 

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