Returning to the classics - Widow & Skunk recommends?

I was reading recently about a white widow clone called “Sharon”. Like to find that.

it is really better option to get some proved cut, this info from female seeds say everything about its instability.. so basically you can buy widow seeds from two different vendors and can get different results:

Female Seeds said:

We started working with the original White Widow in the mid 90's. At the time she was a very popular in Holland as a clone, but the seeds from it were useless because it was a sativa-ish multiple hybrid. Very unstable with loads of pheno's and low yielding.
So slowly but surely we started to cross in resinous indica's and we got real positive feedback that it was such a good Widow.
Then we started stablelising her on that indica pheno. Around 2002 we had a stable uniform indica type of White Widow. People have always been raving about this type with great results and enourmous yields.
Funnily enough we never got one complaint that our White Widow was practically nothing like the original White Widow anymore! More indica-ish than the original sativa-ish. Although the end product is very similar.

Then we thought that it wasn't a bad idea to bring back something original again, just for those interested. Hence the original Black/White Widow (Shanti).
We're not sure if we will keep this one, as it is very instable. Mind you, there might be some very nice individuals in there.

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The best option is to find the original seed line that won the cup and like it or not that is shantibabas White widow that was re named black widow when he sold his share of GHS and started MrNice.

The Aloha widow is claimed to be a clone stolen from the WW plant on display at the cup and if you believe that then your not smart.

Why would you recommend F2s or hybrids of the Widow if some ones after the original widow ?.

All F1s need selecting threw but it pays off and the widow is a unique line in its own right.





Why send people to a Chevy dealer is there after a BMW.


I also read many say Nivanna Widow was good to.

Hmmm.
Wasn’t it the clone/buds that won the cup rather than the seedline?

@hempy said:

The best option is to find the original seed line that won the cup and like it or not that is shantibabas White widow that was re named black widow when he sold his share of GHS and started MrNice.

The Aloha widow is claimed to be a clone stolen from the WW plant on display at the cup and if you believe that then your not smart.

Why would you recommend F2s or hybrids of the Widow if some ones after the original widow ?.

All F1s need selecting threw but it pays off and the widow is a unique line in its own right.
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Why send people to a Chevy dealer is there after a BMW.


I also read many say Nivanna Widow was good to.

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So are you saying that MrNice still have ”the original” Widow, exactly the same as the seed and flower sold in the 1990s? How many different Widows did you try, both seeds grown by you and flowers grown by others in say Amsterdam? Just curious as you seem so set on Shanti having the ”original” still. My experience is (as usual with you) opposite.

I have grown a lot of White Widow from the mid 90s and I had a few friends that used to grow Widow a lot. The version I call the original came in flower form pretty much all over the place in Europe in the 90s and the seeds came from Greenhouse Seed Company in the 90s. I grew and smoked a lot of Great White Shark which came later in 1996-97 and it was a cross of Super Skunk x White Widow. I have also grown the offerings from MrNice such as Black Widow and Shark Shock and I can tell you first hand that they are not showing those expressions they did in the 90s any more. The Shark Shock even got a new pedigree when Shanti changed the name and it states on their official website that it is now Skunk x Widow.

I had a real life opportunity to compare the Great White Shark from Greenhouse anno 1997 with the 2014 version of Shark Shock from MrNice side by side as one of my friends that used to grow a lot of widow and hybrids in the 90s found a bag of seeds when moving and I managed to get one seed from those old seeds to germinate and after months of almost no growth I got it to grow into a plant that I flowered out. It’s not a scientific certainty at all just my subjective experience but the old single seed of GWS was just like the old Widow hybrids, if you tried that old 90s version you’ll know it when you try it again. I grew four different expressions of the new version Shark Shock and compared them at the same time and they are nothing like the old GWS. Smell, taste and effects are very different in the new version expressions compared to that old acrid, funky and ammonia expression of GWS. It’s not only the Widow part that seem to be missing in the new versions but also the Super Skunk used in the 90s (Nevil’s Super Skunk) is not the same as the ”Skunk” used in this new version according to Shanti.

I was surprised that in 2015 - last time I visited Amsterdam - I found some bud that was tagged as White Widow x Skunk#1 and it actually had a lot more of that old Widow in it than the versions coming out of the MrNice seeds. I found that one at the Bulldog of all places, very commercial coffee shop in the heart of the red-light district of Amsterdam inner city (I think it’s taunted as the oldest or first coffee shop of Amsterdam but I don’t know if it’s true). I was very surprised when I bought a few grams of it and rolled a few joints before going on a short canal tour with a friend. It had that special Widow smell and taste and the effects were along the lines of what a Widow x Skunk should smoke like in my opinion. Much, Much better than the Shark Shock in all regards and that is weed coming from a very commercial coffee shop in 2015…

It seem to be par for the course with MrNice to re-work the lines which isn’t a knock at all but saying they are ”exactly” the same or pretending that the exact same parent plants were used making the new versions is dishonest in my book. Even if you start new seeds from the same bags of seeds that produced the male and female parents of the first released version, it’s not exactly the same, even if you follow the same steps and even if the same guy selects the new parents and make a new versions, it’s not the same. Sometimes people are able to improve or get close but it’s not the exact same thing any more and they (serious seed merchants) should really be more specific when they use those old names that mean something for some of us that actually tried them back then. You would be pretty pissed off if the ice cream company you favor suddenly came out with a new batch of chocolate ice cream that tasted strawberries. Nothing wrong with strawberries but if you buy old trusted chocolate and get strawberries you feel cheated and rightfully so.

Do you have some full plant pictures of that (widow I guess it is but you never specified what it was in those pictures of some flowers you posted in the same post as your Widow opinion) plant? How many expressions (phenotypes) did you find when growing the Black Widow? Did they all look like those ones? How was the spread in structure and in smell/taste/high? When did you grow those Black Widows (when where the seeds made)?

Stocktont said:

I was surprised that in 2015 - last time I visited Amsterdam - I found some bud that was tagged as White Widow x Skunk#1 and it actually had a lot more of that old Widow in it than the versions coming out of the MrNice seeds. I found that one at the Bulldog of all places, very commercial coffee shop in the heart of the red-light district of Amsterdam inner city (I think it’s taunted as the oldest or first coffee shop of Amsterdam but I don’t know if it’s true). I was very surprised when I bought a few grams of it and rolled a few joints before going on a short canal tour with a friend. It had that special Widow smell and taste and the effects were along the lines of what a Widow x Skunk should smoke like in my opinion. Much, Much better than the Shark Shock in all regards and that is weed coming from a very commercial coffee shop in 2015…

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bulldog has seeds too, they sell feminized seeds version of their ww cut that produces buds they are selling, they say it

"White Widow feminized by The Bulldog Seeds is the feminized version of the notorious White Widow, a strain that has been the ruler of the bulldog coffeeshop in the last decade. She is a crossing between a South Indian and a Brazilian. This plant is very easy-to-grow and produces very potent, resin-covered nuggets. White Widow by The Bulldog Seeds lives up to all expectations and could be a new favorite for novice growers as well as commercial growers. She has a great taste and combines this with a truly powerful and effective full-body experience."

mr.brunch said:

Hmmm.
Wasn’t it the clone/buds that won the cup rather than the seedline?

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Clearly it was a female selected plant from f1 seed that is normally how its done.

@hempy said:

Clearly it was a female selected plant from f1 seed that is normally how its done.

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I assumed as such... so it would probably be quite hard, I also assume, to find a plant the same, unless of course they already were an inbred line when they won the cup.
personally I like a little variation in a seedline as I get bored with one type constantly

oops sorry wrong thread..

Maybe somebody knows this strain or has grown it, hopefully I can get a taste of the myth
I just put to sex this Wonder Woman from Seedsman Skunkman range
It is listed with this unclear pedigree:
White Widow x Thai-Haze/Skunk #1 x Skunk #1

I liked the Great White Shark.

G13Fan said:

I grew 2 white tigers from Hazeman got a male and female .Awesome smoke real nice organic cali outdoor grown. I liked his madness and Stardog best tho but the White Tiger was very interesting.

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Cool, I’ve got 4 of these going now. I’ve done one white grape that was great. Not much info out there on the white tiger. Glad to hear you liked. I’ve done Hazeman white grape, pine tar kush, and now got white tiger going. His plants seem to have higher leaf to calyx, but tasty and stoney stuff.

Around 14 or 15 I was given a ww cut that was said to be correct. Grew out about right but not my favorite. I gave cuts to a handful of guys and ran the mom thru the flower room on a seedstock run, with blueberry haze male. Those bluewidow f1's are all better than the plain ww cut. Much better than the "blue widow" beans I bought 15 years ago, whatever those were. I ran one good one for a couple years till the novelty wore off. Pic is of that keeper. Bit of pepper/kushy/haze taste over the tongue with lots of citrus and berry in the nose. no sour or fuel, which makes it stand out from modern stuff in my opinion. Very clean "headband" feel with a bit of electricity up front that melts off in half hour or so to 3 hours of level headiness and just a bit of body weight creeping up towards the end.

Stocktont said:

So are you saying that MrNice still have ”the original” Widow, exactly the same as the seed and flower sold in the 1990s? How many different Widows did you try, both seeds grown by you and flowers grown by others in say Amsterdam? Just curious as you seem so set on Shanti having the ”original” still. My experience is (as usual with you) opposite.

I have grown a lot of White Widow from the mid 90s and I had a few friends that used to grow Widow a lot. The version I call the original came in flower form pretty much all over the place in Europe in the 90s and the seeds came from Greenhouse Seed Company in the 90s. I grew and smoked a lot of Great White Shark which came later in 1996-97 and it was a cross of Super Skunk x White Widow. I have also grown the offerings from MrNice such as Black Widow and Shark Shock and I can tell you first hand that they are not showing those expressions they did in the 90s any more. The Shark Shock even got a new pedigree when Shanti changed the name and it states on their official website that it is now Skunk x Widow.

I had a real life opportunity to compare the Great White Shark from Greenhouse anno 1997 with the 2014 version of Shark Shock from MrNice side by side as one of my friends that used to grow a lot of widow and hybrids in the 90s found a bag of seeds when moving and I managed to get one seed from those old seeds to germinate and after months of almost no growth I got it to grow into a plant that I flowered out. It’s not a scientific certainty at all just my subjective experience but the old single seed of GWS was just like the old Widow hybrids, if you tried that old 90s version you’ll know it when you try it again. I grew four different expressions of the new version Shark Shock and compared them at the same time and they are nothing like the old GWS. Smell, taste and effects are very different in the new version expressions compared to that old acrid, funky and ammonia expression of GWS. It’s not only the Widow part that seem to be missing in the new versions but also the Super Skunk used in the 90s (Nevil’s Super Skunk) is not the same as the ”Skunk” used in this new version according to Shanti.

I was surprised that in 2015 - last time I visited Amsterdam - I found some bud that was tagged as White Widow x Skunk#1 and it actually had a lot more of that old Widow in it than the versions coming out of the MrNice seeds. I found that one at the Bulldog of all places, very commercial coffee shop in the heart of the red-light district of Amsterdam inner city (I think it’s taunted as the oldest or first coffee shop of Amsterdam but I don’t know if it’s true). I was very surprised when I bought a few grams of it and rolled a few joints before going on a short canal tour with a friend. It had that special Widow smell and taste and the effects were along the lines of what a Widow x Skunk should smoke like in my opinion. Much, Much better than the Shark Shock in all regards and that is weed coming from a very commercial coffee shop in 2015…

It seem to be par for the course with MrNice to re-work the lines which isn’t a knock at all but saying they are ”exactly” the same or pretending that the exact same parent plants were used making the new versions is dishonest in my book. Even if you start new seeds from the same bags of seeds that produced the male and female parents of the first released version, it’s not exactly the same, even if you follow the same steps and even if the same guy selects the new parents and make a new versions, it’s not the same. Sometimes people are able to improve or get close but it’s not the exact same thing any more and they (serious seed merchants) should really be more specific when they use those old names that mean something for some of us that actually tried them back then. You would be pretty pissed off if the ice cream company you favor suddenly came out with a new batch of chocolate ice cream that tasted strawberries. Nothing wrong with strawberries but if you buy old trusted chocolate and get strawberries you feel cheated and rightfully so.

Do you have some full plant pictures of that (widow I guess it is but you never specified what it was in those pictures of some flowers you posted in the same post as your Widow opinion) plant? How many expressions (phenotypes) did you find when growing the Black Widow? Did they all look like those ones? How was the spread in structure and in smell/taste/high? When did you grow those Black Widows (when where the seeds made)?

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I got my seed from Shanti around 2001 and even Pacific used MrNice seed to seek out a male widow for breeding.I dont know what there current widows is like as i have not grown it but the original White widow that won the cup came from him.

Shanti and his wife/partner owned 50% of GHS the only thing that changed with the white lines when he sold his % of GHS and started MrNice was the names.

I did a full grow log on my widow grow back in cannabis world years ago from seed germ to harvest the 2 plants i posted pictures of here were my selected females and both were very strong.

I dont know when the seeds were made i grew maybe 2000 maybe before.

I find it funny that so many knock Mrnice and yet all the serious growers went to them for seed from 2000 when i joined CW/OG.

GHS ran out of seed after shanti left and had no seed until franco joined GHS some time after.Whats even worse is Mr Haze a mr nice seed retailer from Holland posted admitting he had sold Arjan / Franco F1 seed from Mr nice and that is how they managed to select plants and re stock there seed .

Franco did not even know the widow males id and i would bet money Arjan to this day can not tell you it also and the widow male is what was used in the Shark and Rhino.

Shanti gifted me 2 unreleased widow lines one you could only buy flower of in Coffee shops it was called White Butterfly i also have different stages of the widow in its development i also know the males id along with the moms do YOU.

If People are after white widow seed to grow my suggestion would be Mrnice OR Navanna seeds as every one knows they do knock offs F2s at best but i have herd great things about Navannas Widow.

@hempy said:

If People are after white widow seed to grow my suggestion would be Mrnice OR Navanna seeds as every one knows they do knock offs F2s at best but i have herd great things about Navannas Widow.

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Good to know that

Nirvana?

Hi Happy yep MrNice or Nirvana seeds.

@hempy said:

Hi Happy yep MrNice or Nirvana seeds.

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So you're still recommending MrNice Black Widow, even after not growing any recent stock?
You might have the last legit WW/BW from Shanti before the raids turned his stock into dutch bunk.

I can't speak on the Nirvana WW but if someone wants to take that route I would suggest they get Regular seeds instead of fems.

Let not forget Joey Weed has Legit 90's Greehouse seeds WW F2's .

RoyalFlush said:

So you're still recommending MrNice Black Widow, even after not growing any recent stock?
You might have the last legit WW/BW from Shanti before the raids turned his stock into dutch bunk.

I can't speak on the Nirvana WW but if someone wants to take that route I would suggest they get Regular seeds instead of fems.

Let not forget Joey Weed has Legit 90's Greehouse seeds WW F2's .

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Hiya Royal well its about being honest and transparent mate shanti breed the white family something some have a problem with but i cant say what today's versions like.

If i was buying seed first i would want to know who the breeder of set strain was then i would search and read current grow logs and smoke reports of a set line.

That is what every one should be doing.

it is 2020 not 2001, the most popular variety here is white russian, if you want uniform plants, it is the best bet, folks are growing it outdoors massively here last 15 years, they grew dp blueberry or durban too, but these stopped to be reliable 10 years ago, so everybody is doing white russian. it is still the same as it was. if you want knock out stone. it is the best choice for white strain these days.