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Males on Fem Seeds
- Thread starter weedtoker
- Start date
M
metsäkana
never seen on femmed
i had outdoor this year regular auto that was first male and then started budding and making hairs
D
and i have SMS nevil haze seedling that made only one leaf and ahve not grown in 2 week.. that is femmed
maybe someone mixed the seeds
femmed beans i have late bananas as ofthen as on regular stuff i think
femmed beans i have more stem bananas poppin some times than regulars i think
full hermies only rare that have full of balls and hairs
this outdoor plant was weard it growed bud from ballsd
i had outdoor this year regular auto that was first male and then started budding and making hairs
Dand i have SMS nevil haze seedling that made only one leaf and ahve not grown in 2 week..
that is femmedmaybe someone mixed the seeds
femmed beans i have late bananas as ofthen as on regular stuff i think
femmed beans i have more stem bananas poppin some times than regulars i think
full hermies only rare that have full of balls and hairs
this outdoor plant was weard it growed bud from balls
d
Natural high
Member
I'm not sure where you want it to lead, but I can say right now 100% that the crossing of two "true" females, each with two X chromosomes, will never make a true male offspring with an X and a Y chromosome. It's just not possible.
A cross between two females, with at least one with hermaphrodite genes, might create something that makes male flowers, but it's not a male. If you use this so called "male" to breed with, then you will have a classic hermaphrodite seed line.
Cheers
.
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Natural high
Member
Of course the other possibility is a true male from a seed created by stray pollen from an unknown male. Now that might be an interesting plant to breed with because you never know what you might get.
...yeah, i personally would blame the breeder for being lazy and doing a poor job of selection AND femminizing and i'd not be buying from him again.
...this has happened in my own garden with femmed beans i bought but it has NEVER happened with the beans i femmed myself.
peace, bozo
...this has happened in my own garden with femmed beans i bought but it has NEVER happened with the beans i femmed myself.
peace, bozo
Thank you for putting the time onto this. I've been searchin about this for a while now, my references are scarce as of now, I might have some anedoctal evidence at my hand, also found this on ic, at this forum:
There's at least a seedline on the market that is kinda openly spoken about, pops out some males inbetween, often sterile, it seems (no personal experience on that one).
So they do happen phisically, in theory they seem "XY" but will they breed consistently for XY or are we just assuming?
Genetically it seems that we still don't know how to distinguish clearly male, female and inter-sex, and I'm not supporting the use of these freely, but shouldn't we as comunity first test whatever we speakin of, before dissin? I think that is what hard science is, Test/Unbiased testing...
Trying to keep the ball rollin too on this conversation, after all i'm too interested in this.
cheers
There's at least a seedline on the market that is kinda openly spoken about, pops out some males inbetween, often sterile, it seems (no personal experience on that one).
So they do happen phisically, in theory they seem "XY" but will they breed consistently for XY or are we just assuming?
Genetically it seems that we still don't know how to distinguish clearly male, female and inter-sex, and I'm not supporting the use of these freely, but shouldn't we as comunity first test whatever we speakin of, before dissin? I think that is what hard science is, Test/Unbiased testing...
Trying to keep the ball rollin too on this conversation, after all i'm too interested in this.
cheers
Natural high
Member
My thoughts on this is stray pollen. If they are growing out 700 seeds then they obviously have a significant breeding facility going on and there is bound to be stray pollen in the air and on their person.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Originally Posted by Charles-scott
We recently grew out 700 female seeds we did not encounter a single hermie we did encounter three full on males .
[/FONT]
Cheers
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
"A quick word on "backward" hermaphrodites ? declared males that eventually sport female flowers ? as opposed to the usual female-to-male hermaphrodites. These are semi-rare occurrences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I have found at times to be valuable in their genetic contributions. Some of the most resinous and desirable males I have encountered exhibited this trait. This trait almost seems to guarantee against unwanted hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female to male ratio in its progeny.
These are the Male's used through out the life of the origional haze and the mystery of it.
It explains about bad and good haze I belive..
- dj short
If it doesnt start making pistils its probably from stray regular pollen or an accidental seed mixup.
These are the Male's used through out the life of the origional haze and the mystery of it.
It explains about bad and good haze I belive..
- dj short
If it doesnt start making pistils its probably from stray regular pollen or an accidental seed mixup.
Y
Yard dog
How does DJ know they are male? there could be a good reason why there's more females after he breeds with them....
anyway for the OP;
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=257082&page=3
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231950
Thank you again on everyone for putting the time to answer.
Have a near to same quote from his book, but it is now a vintage. Will add some more fuel, with this mean gene podcast and what got me originally re-thinking the subject:
https://soundcloud.com/user-9283505...-mean-gene-of-freeborn-selections-afficionado
You can check it starting around 1h25m, or listen to it all if ya fancy.
Have a good day yall,
cheers
Have a near to same quote from his book, but it is now a vintage. Will add some more fuel, with this mean gene podcast and what got me originally re-thinking the subject:
https://soundcloud.com/user-9283505...-mean-gene-of-freeborn-selections-afficionado
You can check it starting around 1h25m, or listen to it all if ya fancy.
Have a good day yall,
cheers
I'm not sure where you want it to lead, but I can say right now 100% that the crossing of two "true" females, each with two X chromosomes, will never make a true male offspring with an X and a Y chromosome. It's just not possible.
A cross between two females, with at least one with hermaphrodite genes, might create something that makes male flowers, by it's not a male. If you use this so called "male" to breed with, then you will have a classic hermaphrodite seed line.
Cheers
.
There's no such thing as hermie genes.
Thank you for putting the time onto this. I've been searchin about this for a while now, my references are scarce as of now, I might have some anedoctal evidence at my hand, also found this on ic, at this forum:
There's at least a seedline on the market that is kinda openly spoken about, pops out some males inbetween, often sterile, it seems (no personal experience on that one).
So they do happen phisically, in theory they seem "XY" but will they breed consistently for XY or are we just assuming?
Genetically it seems that we still don't know how to distinguish clearly male, female and inter-sex, and I'm not supporting the use of these freely, but shouldn't we as comunity first test whatever we speakin of, before dissin? I think that is what hard science is, Test/Unbiased testing...
Trying to keep the ball rollin too on this conversation, after all i'm too interested in this.
cheers
Genetically... We DO know how to distinguish males from females.
BUT...
Females & hermaphrodites are indistinguishable using a DNA test.
Phylos Labs web site is a decent source for info concerning this.
Hermaphrodites are confused females that can't get her hormones straightened out so that she can express as a full blown female.
Sexual expression can be manipulated in cannabis via hormone application.
Males can be made to express female & females can be made to express as male. All it takes is hormone manipulation. DNA is more or less locked down. I say more or less because, to answer the OPs original question, genetics can toss a screw ball at any time. The variety available by Ace, Peyote Purple, has been known to toss a male every once in a while & these are bred using feminizing techniques. Because I wasn't there when the variety was made I cannot speak on cross contamination but I highly doubt that is the case. Especially considering that more than one male has been found, none being off type.
This has nothing to do with being lazy breeder lol.. Some of the best breeders have seen highly intesexed females(s1 that's express all male traits). I found 1 of these in Cannabiogens Peyote Purple seeds. Charlie is an excellent breeder. Someone just found 1 in the Chiquita Banana s1 seeds I made. 100% guarantee there was no stray pollen.. This is nothing new has been a topic of discussion for years. IMO if a recessive allele becomes dom and the dom allele becomes broken you could find plants that express highly intersex traits(Plants that look male). Will it be a true male no. I would like to see someone pollinate a plant with some and see what the ratio of male/female those seeds produce. There is no selection process when making an s1. Triangle Kush x Triangle kush=s1. No section process is needed until you go to s2. As for making s1/fem seeds this is not rocket science. If you get viable pollen from any reversal thats a good job imo. Finding plants that express all male traits in an s1 is rare it def happens.
I asked Chimera to pop in and discus this again. A bunch had this discussion with him and Tom about 6 years ago?.
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M
metsäkana
lol i just got from outdoor checking plants one is 90% female and now pushing 2-3 branches males flowers but other branches are fully female lol
i had similar but it was male pushing female flowers from balls
i think some strains are little too picky for finnish outdoor xD
i dont have pictures from the male ball female.. i was too pissed to take em
i had similar but it was male pushing female flowers from balls
i think some strains are little too picky for finnish outdoor xD
i dont have pictures from the male ball female..
i was too pissed to take em
Y
Yard dog
I'm not sure about that!, I understand that no one has seen a full blown "true" hermaphrodite in cannabis, however in the plant world they are everywhere, something like 90 % of plants are selfers...
Many think that dioecy evolved from the state of hermaphrodite.
So cannabis is sexually dimorphic, with that in mind and we select for females we are specifically selecting genes linked to that sex chromosome or autosome, you could be selecting for the regulatory mechanism that limits the expression of that plant, ie a sexually antagonistic plant.
Anyway they have found a gene in humans and others called MAP3K1 that does act as an on/off switch for intersex expression. So there is a gene for enabling intersex!...
Natural high
Member
Yes there is, and I'd can say that with 100% confidence because I have an sound knowledge of plant biology and genetics. By the way, I never suggested that hermaphroditism is the third sex, only that specific genes are responsible for hermaphroditism.
Genetically stable females & "female" hermaphrodites are indistinguishable using a DNA test, but only in terms of sex, because they are both female i.e. two X chromosomes. They will certainly be different at the gene loci that control the tendency to express hermaphroditism.
Cheers
.
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Not to go too far off topic but since you guys are discussing sexual orientation here’s a paper about papayas. Kind of heavy reading but sheds some light on papaya sexual orientation. Papaya plants will either be male, female, or hermaphrodite, kind of similar to cannabis although the sex organs of the hermaphroditic papaya flowers tend to be more along the lines of being a perfect flower. But this research suggests the sexual orientation is gene related.
Hopefully with things loosening up with legalization this kind of research can be done with cannabis.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6454233_Sex_determination_in_papaya
Hopefully with things loosening up with legalization this kind of research can be done with cannabis.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6454233_Sex_determination_in_papaya
not sure how much of an expert you are, but some of the very respected breeders here have had discussions about this in the past, and certain popular fem lines such as Peyote Purple have repeatedly shown 'males' or 'highly intersex females' in their progeny. here are a couple of threads where this has been discussed:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231950
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=246229
enjoy
VG
Y
Yard dog
^^ Such a shame some of the posts are hidden.... (edit: [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-though they may be masked in the parent- will occasionally give rise upon recombination to what you're referring to in this thread - For me when T says a female plant with noted absence of masculine markers/modifiers when selfed her progeny will contain very few intersex plants is not always true for the reason he puts below)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They're not males ime, but highly staminate intersex females. Cannabis plants (sex) are controlled first by the XY system, but secondly (expression) by (often environmentally triggered) modifying factors located on autosomes, or pseudoautosomal regions. A female plant with a noted absence of masculine type modifiers can be said to be strongly female. When selfed her progeny will contain very few if any intersex individuals. The opposite type of plant (a female with a noted abundance of masculine type modifiers) -though they may be masked in the parent- will occasionally give rise upon recombination to what you're referring to in this thread. But they're not really males.-T"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"They're not males ime, but highly staminate intersex females. Cannabis plants (sex) are controlled first by the XY system, but secondly (expression) by (often environmentally triggered) modifying factors located on autosomes, or pseudoautosomal regions. A female plant with a noted absence of masculine type modifiers can be said to be strongly female. When selfed her progeny will contain very few if any intersex individuals. The opposite type of plant (a female with a noted abundance of masculine type modifiers) -though they may be masked in the parent- will occasionally give rise upon recombination to what you're referring to in this thread. But they're not really males.-T"[/FONT]
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