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Old 10-06-2010, 08:38 AM #1
epicseeds
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The myth, of the high P myth?

I have been doing a lot of reading regarding the high phosphorous myth and how it is a waste to use bloom boosters with obnoxiously high amounts of P. All of this makes perfect sense but I am still confused to one thing.
For example, read this quote from Lawrence Brookes, a scientist from General Hydroponics:



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"When plants are growing in a perfect happy life, when they are young and in vegetative mode, they have no particular reason to reproduce. They�re secure and growing vigorously, becoming bigger and stronger. But when the trigger comes of day-length shortening, the plants are being told by nature that the winter is coming and the end of their life is at hand. And so, at this point the plants have to completely change priorities into reproductive growth. By switching the nutrients to something that enhances flower growth and reducing nitrogen significantly � the plants are now threatened by the nutrient regimen. They are not on a starvation diet, but a modified diet that stimulates and enables reproductive growth � kind of like a goose being fed for pate. There�s a different set of priorities going on from the grower�s point of view and the crop is responding. So now the job of the nutrient is to enable the plants to produce these wonderful flowers. So we�re really now about helping that crop to flower � tremendously, because flowers are the precursors to fruit and seed. We provide the elements needed for abundant flowering and we reduce the nitrogen that was needed for early structural growth while enhancing ingredients that enable flowering."

What he is saying here is it can be adventitious to "stress" a plant with reduced N and a high P is he not? This makes sense to me as well. Further, I also have been looking at tissue samples Big Mike did with different MJ strains - and results show that in fact, when in flower plants use a low amount of P...which validates the idea that high P is useless. BUT - is it true that if you reduce N and raise P it can send it into "overdrive" by stressing the plant thus forcing more vigorous flower production? This makes sense to me!



Perhaps it would be adventitious to combine the best of both worlds. Is there a general time during a plants blooming phase where it would be best to raise the P levels - and other times where P should be kept at lower levels? I agree with the theory that you should try to keep N levels similar to veg during flower as much as possible in order to keep the leaves nice and green. So perhaps at a certain point a different regimine could be switched over to a low N - high P to stress the plant. I just dont know when! Should you load up on P early during bloom - in the middle - or in the end?
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:59 PM #2
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I try to make more P available starting about end of week 2 of flower. That's just me
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:19 PM #3
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Been watching the phosphorus issues sinse they took my bloom ferts off the shelf.Try finding the old 10/50/10 formula's that were for sale a couple years ago.....The powers that be are Worried about P run-off into the lakes,streams and the watershed....
Ive now switched over to hydro ferts,lower in P,and have had good results...Have noticed a relationship between the ratio of N vs P[in flowering ferts] and bud density.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:27 PM #4
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Look at the NPK levels on one part grow and one part flower from any reputable mfg- FF/Botanicare/DM/AN... Grow has more N than P or K. In Flower it's the opposite. An imbalance of PK can lock out N, a possible cause of leaf claw. Also, the amount of PK an outdoor plant can use is considerably more than indoors. The amount of soil most indoor growers use is insuffucient to properly process high levels of P-K.

The big question is are the extreme PK nutes necesssary? IMHO (based on solid research), no, and Big Mike proved it. I have seen similar testing which indicates huge PK is totally unnecessary. They might actually make your smoke harsher, too.
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Old 11-01-2010, 07:28 PM #5
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The reason some fertilizers come with high P amounts is because when growing outdoors in soil the P is less available and has a tendency to wash out of the soil.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:01 PM #6
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the fact that huge numbers of people use gh 2part or the maxibloom through a whole grow at the same ratio helps to validate the fact excess p isnt needed. i do think its a valid idea tho to try using a nute blend keeping n the same higher in pk for the first week to help stimulate the flowering process. then back to a balanced diet. then in mid to late flower reduce your n to 0 and feed strictly pk with cal mag to reboost flower production. untill your flush.
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Old 11-01-2010, 10:27 PM #7
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ive posted this elsewhere, but it certainly belongs here.

AN commissioned a study, its 15-20 pages long, here's a link, and images of the first 4 pages.

https://www.growersunderground.com/PhosphorusMyth.pdf






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Old 11-02-2010, 07:36 PM #8
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Thanks ShroomDr!
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:13 PM #9
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those are leaf and bud tissue samples. what about the roots and stem, ive be curious to c what numbers they have and the correlation to what was fed, and a root mass test and soil test just to c what is reallybeing used up if not you just got some fancy numbers from a tiny piece of bud or leaf. the plants needs roots and stems to make the bud and leaf. give me numbers for the their total feeding regime, numbers for the soil before and after its cycle and test roots stemas leafs and bud tissue samples to get the total picture.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:39 AM #10
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was kind of unaware of all this P issue very useful information... so far i have used mostly biobizz line but only the N supplement and the root stimulator, my buds seem fine so far, next run i will try to buy the P one and see if i can notice some real change in the grow. Is it possible this is a myth to make us by more shit??
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