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Repuk's First Outdoor Run: ACE's Honduras, Ethiopian and Lebanese

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Waiting for the seedlings to poke through is agony. I soaked and warmed mine, but not to the tap root. Placed them in main grow bags, four days nothing. Shit, I'll regerminate more seeds with tap roots. So as they are popping now. Low and behold stuff is coming up in the bags.
Damn my impatient side of life. So some are going outside in freshened up soil. So now I have Erdpurt and Panama Deep Chunk added to the list. I will let the outside plants be a little neglected but not abused. So I basically wasted a couple hundred dollars worth of genetics.
So again my Ace germination rates were very good.....Twice. Peace

Heheh, I was about to sow some more too!

I always start them in coco solo cups on their own inside the veg tent (feet at 21C), no presoak, paper towels or anything.

This time I did the same but with a light soil mix, left the seedling pots on the "greengarden" out of an unused hen coop (translucent roof), completely on their own, but for keeping moisture on them (on the low side for me, I'm not used to soil)...

Farmerlion, I wonder, how do you prepare holes for fruit trees? Basin care?

Avocados (great munchies!)


Cheers, lots to take aboard - much appreciated!
I have them indoors, they're due a transplant and different soil is certainly in needed.
Happy growing

Nup do you have the avocados in pots? Do they come from seeds of avocados you ate maybe?

If so, do transplant them asap... to ground if possible (with a good bed!). You won't get fruits while in pots, avocado trees stablishment phase throws a looooong and deeep main tap root, something it's not going to happen on a pot. These trees grow incredibly big and strong in nature. Usually no stablished root system = no flowers/generative phase.

Do you know how reproduction works on avocados? I mean flowering types and phases, etc?

Young avocado (1-2 years. implant) Strain: Fuerte
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Young avocado, 1-2 years, implant. Strain: Bacon
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Avocado, 3+ years, implant. Strain: Hass. In Flower.
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Ammending soil

Leonardite is about to arrive. Will use it + heaps of compost to "fluff" and enhance the ground (high clay content).

It's incredible how red soil worms thrive here. Transplanted some lettuces from a seedling tray and it was full of red worm babies at the bottom?!? Guess there were earth worm cocoons on the bag substrate I used (Cejudo)

Thinking on growing them too! (free worm manure!) in the meanwhile I throw them under the weeds composting heaps.

I assume is is good also to have them in pots with live plants for a healthy root ecosystem?
 

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Kaskadian

Active member
Veteran
Lovely avocados Repuk!

I'm sure you'll have more babies smiling at you soon; the wait is the worst part.
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Dirt Broke

Dirt Broke

Left to Right: Ethiopian, Lebanese, Honduras:
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Come on Ethiopian #1!! Wake up!

Honduras
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Nup

Active member
Yo repuk!
Yes, my avocados are in pots, and they have indeed come from commercial avocados!

I grew them mostly for the variety, and because they're pretty spectacular plants.

To be frank i know next to nothing about them. Another thing to add to the list of things to learn! They have to be inside here, otherwise they'd struggle outside. Even apples and cherries don't manage to bare fruit most years.

The smallest one is happiest, its a twin too. The bigger ones (~10L pots) are pretty miserable looking dying,droopy leaves and the whole lot. They're about 2 years old. May put up a picture when there's light tomorrow.
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Great for munchies alright ;) hah.
Hope you get some nice trees out of those!! Looking lovely.

Seedlings are looking good too! Excited to see them grow different.
 

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repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Avocados

Avocados are fascinating too :)

Avocado flowers use a evolutionary technique to enhance genetic diversity: same flower can open as male or female.

i.e. today they open as female in the morning, then close by midday, opening as male next afternoon.

Pictures Source: great blog "Bleeding in Green" (Spanish)

First flower opening: female mode. Those Orange bone-shaped things are the nectar sacks. Note stamens are not mature yet
alvocat.jpg


Male phase, sepals retract and stamens raise their heads
alvocat-mascle2.jpg


Same flowers pictured with 24 hours difference
alvocat-flor-femella-02-05-15%2Bcopia.jpg



All trees from the same strain, on same cultivar, will sync this action, preventing pollinization between themselves.

Depending on this synchronization, strains are classified by four types of flowering sync, A, B, C, and D.

In order to get fruits, you need to plant some trees not of the same flowering type, e.g. if planting Hass, type A, you'll need to plant some Fuerte or Bacon (type C I think), unless you're positive there are cultivars near of different flowering.

Avocado polinization thus relies heavily on insects, specially bees; avocado honey is well known and highly valued.

My Fuerte and Bacon trees are too young and didn't flower, so I wasn't sure if my Hass would fruit; but I saw bees working franctically and it seems other compatible-flowering avocados are near... Just discovered what would become the fruits (lil green balls, will take pictures) so it seems they're going to fruit! yeeehaw!

Hybrid Avocados (plants from commercial fruit seeds)
Hence Seeds from fruits you ate will always be hybrids; by the fruit you can guess the "host" strain (i.e. Hass) but not the male donor strain.

Hybrids will take flowering type from one of the parents. These plants fruits will be a cross of strains, sometimes with so delicate skins that it will be possible to eat the fruit like an apple, peel included (Hass hybrid)
aguacatebord.jpg


Being hybrid also means you may get lucky, and if two of your avocados manage to flower (from seed some need to be 8+ years old), they may be of "compatible" flowering.
 
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repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Ok, enough chitchat :)

Get those lil' avocados on bigger pots please! :biggrin:

I would repot that (Hass I'd bet) hybrid you have on a pot at least 10x that size. Those on "big pots" (pictures?) to something at least 3x that size, 25-30L. Put peat, or coco on top to help keeping the pot moisture on hot weather. Where do you live?

If you need to keep them in pots, I would repot it prior to spring and in autumn, with soil rich on organics: humus, worm manure, compost... should be well matured.

Keep in mind avocados have huge root systems in nature, to make them happy on the pot, size it accordingly and be sure to add organic teas and other amendments (not hot!) regularly to replenish readily available nutes.

That being said, avocados can be very temperamental, and drop all their leaves or flowers for no apparent reason from time to time (dearths). Not rare for them to yield impressively two, three years in a row, then drop all flowers on next year and take a "vacation" for no other apparent reason than taking a rest.

As any other plant they will suffer with hot weather /sun if their root systems are undeveloped: keep their feet cool (white pots) and provide them some shadow for their canopy until they get better and stronger. Avoid wind and air currents.
 
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repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Seedlings
Just had a look at the seedlings... seems Ethiopian #1 won't make it, didn't sprout. Will sow another one next weekend if this is the case.

Avocados
Micro avocados forming from pollinated flowers: those darker green tiny balls. Note flowers in female phase
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Don't like ants in there at all... any good natural method to get rid of them?

Leonardite Arrived
Leonardite arrived, had a good chat with the company engineer, it seems we also have leonardite mines here in Northern Spain... In fact they sent me the finest one at same cost :woohoo: they were out of the more coarse type I ordered: due to the latest heavy rains mines are closed until water drains and terrain stabilizes.

Have a Krystalica #2 clone I won't flower (lack of space and interest on this particular cut).

Thinking on doing an experiment... Digging a hole and amending the ground soil with some compost + leonardite, transplanting the cut there to see how it manages straight in this soil. Looks like the clay is a layer, and a not too thick one.

Outdoor Bug preventive measures
Thinking about that... I wonder what's the best method to prevent plagues outdoor? On indoor I usually give plants a feed including neem oil, as soon as they reach the 4th internode, and again a week or so prior to flower. Should neem foliars be used regularly while in veg? Foliars, feeds, or both?
 

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repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Come 'on Ethiopian #1...

Come 'on Ethiopian #1...

Seems to be stalled... really tiny seed and tiniest seedling I've seen (tap root firmly stuck)

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Of course I covered it (lightly) back.

The rest had stretched a good bit (cloudy days), so I moved them next to the hen coop wall fence to get more light and harden a little.
 
G

Guest

Love the avocado documentary :)
I think Ethiopian looks like it'll make it :tiphat:
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Glad you liked it :tiphat:

Yes, I think it has been an extreme helmet-head case.

I dug and saw the shell almost intact and thought it hadn't sprouted; tried to turn around carefully with the nail, and it popped off showing what I pictured.

I touched it lightly and the seedling was stapled to the soil pretty firmly, let's see if it manages from there.
 

Nup

Active member
Man! They always seemed interesting, but i had never heard of that pollination technique!! Yes, a very good documentary indeed!

I hope that you'll get a couple fruit from your pollinated plants then.

Thanks for the heads up, ill prep some soil for them for the end of the season. I live in rural Ireland, so its really not a place where they'll be happy outside. Just check and the "bigger" plants are only in 5L pots. Thing is they're in a sun room, may have to fight for some more aesthetic 20L pots then hah.

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They're in a bit of an embarrassing state.

That blog seems like a treat too, tasty stuff going on.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
tiphat.gif
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Seedlings are looking good also, enjoying the grow so far!

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repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Nup said:
I hope that you'll get a couple fruit from your pollinated plants then.

There is plenty of pollinated fruits... hope to get more than two! ;)

Judging by the size of my trees (they're hass implants from a mature Hass tree on topa-topa "feet" from seed, wouldn't be fruiting otherwise being this young), I doubt it will be able to manage more than 20 avocados each.

Sometimes young trees decide to drop its fruits partially, leaving only what they could handle. Sometimes, they drop all of them... we'll see.

Nup said:
Thanks for the heads up, ill prep some soil for them for the end of the season. I live in rural Ireland, so its really not a place where they'll be happy outside. Just check and the "bigger" plants are only in 5L pots. Thing is they're in a sun room, may have to fight for some more aesthetic 20L pots then hah.

Or at least 10L... worm castings, humus... rich organic soil without going too far with nitrogen. Those old burnt tips on the leaves were possibly caused by too hot soil or ferts. If you have a composter, they'll love an organic source of readily available, softly concentrated nutrients: compost teas (the excess water that drains when you water the composter) will make them thrive and promote a healthy root ecosystem.

Left one has definitely Hass influence (squatter), the right one leans towards a Fuerte (straight up columnar growth, they're usually planted on the avocado orchard perimeter to protect Hass from wind in addition to pollinate them).

Nup said:
They're in a bit of an embarrassing state.

They don't look that bad... Already in their spring cycle (sprouting spotless new leaves/branches), then will come vertical growing if they have all the nutes they need and enough light and warmth, which seems to be the case judging by their looks.

As with cannabis, avocados store nutrients on leaves, and fetch them from older leaves when required if not available, that's why those older leaves on the hass look that bad.

Make sure soil drainage is really good, like for cannabis...

Tall pots are more comfortable for them than squatter ones (remember, main tap root likes to dig deeper).
 
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Kaskadian

Active member
Veteran
Glad the wee Ethiopian popped its head up! I'm very excited for this grow m8, and I'm especially interested in the Ethiopian. I've got a pack of Ethiopian sitting around here that I'd love to get started. It's on the too-do list.

Keep it up brudduh!
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
I'm excited like a child Kaskadian :)

Seedlings keep doing their thing, really different pace outdoors. :watchplant: it's been three weeks since I sowed them...

Both Honduras seedlings stretched like mad… they barely have the first pair of (single fingered?) leaves, I'm wary about putting them under hard sun??

They get direct morning sunlight until midday…

Ethiopian, Hondurs, Lebanese:
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farmerlion

Microbial Repositories
Mentor
Veteran
Repuk, mine are protected from the wind in the greenhouse but full sun. My three outdoors have stayed squat and seem to enjoy the full sun. They don't have a choice, grow or die. I envy your longer flowering sativa ladies. Peace
 

Nup

Active member
Repuk - I was surprised alright when you said that they were barring fruit so ealry! That’s awesome. Nice system, that grafting.

Must have been the hot soil then!! I had put them in some cut down canna super-soil. Lots of good knowledge here man. Being indoors they start a month or so again. Really helps them shoot up. I hope to see them flower in the coming years. Also very glad to hear with the leaves!!

———————

Back on topic. Hah, seedings are looking good. I also found they’re a different beast outdoors. I can imagine their linage will help deal with the southern spanish sun.
 
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dubi

ACE Seeds Breeder
Vendor
Veteran
Hi repuk,

Glad to see the new sativa babies for this outdoor season ;)

Be careful with the small seedlings in small black pots, they can easily get burned under strong sun and winds. Place them in a place where they are more protected from mid day sun and consider to transplant them to white bigger pots when you have the chance.

Best wishes!
 

repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Thanks Dubi Nup and farmerlion! :tiphat:

Dubi: yes I hear you on black pots. The pots and box don't get hot, they're inside a hen coop, facing east, light reaches directly only until midday.

Waiting for them to be less fragile to repot, specially the Honduras which stretched madly... today they looked like they started gaining traction. Is it fine to repot the most leggy ones and cover half of the stem with soil to lessen the risk of it breaking?

I am about to receive a mini greenhouse I will use for seedlings, clones, etc.

Will place them there as soon as it reaches me:

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Moving outdoors/indoors
Having a situation with Malawi & Panama fems vegging... if Violeta is a girl, I will be out of space on ACE tent until three to four weeks.

I'm receiving a small (6x3x2m, 9'x20'x6.5') greenhouse I'll devote to tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, etc.

Will it be fine leaving them there vegging until there's space available? They're currently at 18/6, I understand if I move them to the greenhouse they won't start flowering (right now there are like 14-15 daily sun hours)?

The idea is moving them from the greenhouse to the ACE tent indoors as soon as space is available... they need to be repotted and vegged/trained further, so guess that may fit with the 3-4 weeks waiting? Or will become monsters?
 

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repuk

Altruistic Hazeist
Veteran
Nup: my hass avocado that burned all its leaves and dropped all of them, was the one I planted using MJ specific soil. The one I planted with the lighter one thrived, so expect them to get traction with proper soil and a repot... (beware they're slower than MJ)
 

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