What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

From where did all the color come?

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
In my research for articles included in our new blog site launch, I found errors in my previous understanding of what was being extracted in cannabis essential oils, because we aren't typically testing for them.

Not only was I mildly embarrassed by finding out I’ve repeatedly misspelled the word anthocyanin as anthrocyannin on multiple forums around the world, but deeply embarrassed to learn I ’de accepted some things at face value without adequate vetting, and thus missed some important clues as to where all the color comes from in a cannabis essential oil extraction.

We are extracting a range of molecules starting with the C-10 monoterpenes, some with accompanying C-5 fractions, through C-55 Chlorophyll and Pheophytin.

To better understand where we are picking up color, let’s look at their individual colors and nature.

For the most part the monoterpenes are colorless, but when we reach the C-15 Sesqui-terpenes we find some color and that is also where we find the water soluble anthocyanin color pigments/glucosides/flavonoids, which have vivid colors.

The C-21 &22 Cannabinoids range from white to light yellow, so don’t add much color, and the about ~C-30 plant waxes are light beige, which serves to cloud and occlude light as opposed to adding to the brown.

Here we come to some powerful color sources, starting with non polar C-40 beta Carotene, which is yellow to red in color, the fall colors that emblazon Ma Nature in the fall.

Followed by polar C-55 Chlorophyll which is vivid green, and not attractive to non polar LPG, but its byproduct of decomposition non polar Pheophytin, which is olive brown, is attractive to non polar solvents like LPG.

Sooo, the last paragraph explains in part why older material non polar LPG extractions are darker, because they do readily extract non polar pheophytin, even though they didn’t much polar chlorophyll.

The water solubility of the C-15 anthocyanin/glucosides/flavonoids also explains how freezing ties them up and minimizes their extraction, as well as why polar miscible alcohol is more effective extracting them.

Up to this point we haven’t discussed beta Carotene, but no new news on why -30 to -70C reduces its extraction rate, thus lightening the extraction.

Also no new news on why subzero reduces polar chlorophyll pickup, as when water is present, it is tied up in ice. The same would be true of non-polar Pheophytin if water is still present, but consider what there is keeping the non-polar solvent away from the non-polar Pheophytin once the material is fully desiccated, so that there is no ice regardless of the low temperature.

That suggests that rehydrating the material some before freezing it may prove beneficial, so we will be following up with that experiment and expanding on it more both here and in our TAR blog site.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Mmmm, no comment!

I suppose we will see how confident he is that he can compete against us, without stacking the deck.
 
Another source for unwanted color happens after extraction... Oxidation. Not many people discuss the fact that extended exposure to ethanol encourages oxidation. Many distillate producers use sodium sulfite, which is used in the beer and wine industry to reduce oxidation, during winterization.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Another source for unwanted color happens after extraction... Oxidation. Not many people discuss the fact that extended exposure to ethanol encourages oxidation. Many distillate producers use sodium sulfite, which is used in the beer and wine industry to reduce oxidation, during winterization.

You can also caramelize plant sugars with heat,
 

prune

Active member
Veteran
Another source for unwanted color happens after extraction... Oxidation. Not many people discuss the fact that extended exposure to ethanol encourages oxidation. Many distillate producers use sodium sulfite, which is used in the beer and wine industry to reduce oxidation, during winterization.

it's not the ethanol, it's that pesky miscible water content that the alcohol drags with it...
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Short answer, no balls!

Not as much brass in them as when I was an adolescent, leading us to a discussion of this adolescent conversation.

I'm not your mama, fight your own battles, this conversation is over.

Any interest in color?
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
thread cleaned up.

we won't have this turn into some personal feuding and washing laundry in public.

the troll should consider this the one and only warning on this issue
 
Dose this lead to fresh frozen being lighter because of the moisture content giving it the ability to lock the water saluable contamination in the ice
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Dose this lead to fresh frozen being lighter because of the moisture content giving it the ability to lock the water saluable contamination in the ice

That is part of it. The other part is that dissolution slows down as the temperature falls, but slows down for longer heavier molecules more than the lighter ones.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
So how do we get rid of Pheophytin !!!

Aside from short path distillation, and carbon filtration, a good question. I just emailed that to Pharmer Joe and will pass on his answer.
 

Gtir

Member
Aside from short path distillation, and carbon filtration, a good question. I just emailed that to Pharmer Joe and will pass on his answer.

This is really the questions, because it means that the older the material, the darker the wax, the less pure the extraction, it would really be a game changer to get that stuff out.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
This is really the questions, because it means that the older the material, the darker the wax, the less pure the extraction, it would really be a game changer to get that stuff out.

Pharmer Joe says flash chromatography, short path distillation, and acid precipitation.

He suggests winterizing before acidification, and then adding just enough anhydrous citric acid to turn the ethanol solution bright yellow.

You can then filter through bleaching clays which will also neutralize the mixture, or put it in a separatory funnel with pentane and water to pull off the goodies into the pentane.
 

axle2u

Member
gray wolf miester
very interesting post, about color of extraction....


im primarily interested, in how to make a quality smoking extract (oil)
that is red.....how can this be accomplished...?


is this a type of beta carotene you mentioned C-40...?
or a type of winterizing process....or an acid treatment to tweak the ph...?


im getting lost in all this information......ahaha
wow, there is so much information on the internet,
it has reached a disinformation stage for me....lol


how to make a red oil...?


thanks mate,


axle robot
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
gray wolf miester
very interesting post, about color of extraction....


im primarily interested, in how to make a quality smoking extract (oil)
that is red.....how can this be accomplished...?


is this a type of beta carotene you mentioned C-40...?
or a type of winterizing process....or an acid treatment to tweak the ph...?


im getting lost in all this information......ahaha
wow, there is so much information on the internet,
it has reached a disinformation stage for me....lol


how to make a red oil...?


thanks mate,


axle robot

C-40 b-Carotene ranges in color from yellow to red.

The reddest extract that I've been able to make was by the QWISO process.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150707155351/https://skunkpharmresearch.com:80/qwiso/
 

Attachments

  • Refined extract-1-1.jpg
    Refined extract-1-1.jpg
    33 KB · Views: 15

EsterEssence

Well-known member
Veteran
The ethanol oil I have made for years from kief tastes great, works great, but is to dark and thick for today's market. It seems everyone wants those throw away pens, with the light colored oil. I can't believe people throw that many batteries away.
 

axle2u

Member
The ethanol oil I have made for years from kief tastes great, works great, but is to dark and thick for today's market. It seems everyone wants those throw away pens, with the light colored oil. I can't believe people throw that many batteries away.



ahaha....


shine on....lol


-axle robot
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top