Scratching My Way To Harvest....Hopefully.

A tip from the ol' hazmat days, duct tape the suit to the outside of your gloves and rubbers.

Those organo filters (any filter for that matter) are rendered useless by high humidity/moisture, I let them dry out somewhere and tape the openings until next use. Easier to do with North filters than 3M. That's because North makes better products, like face masks that actually seal around your face XD

Always always always (did I mention, always) do a positive and negative pressure test before starting work.

I think I have an idea of what you're talking about when you say positive and negative pressure test. are you talking about the suction to your face? I made sure that thing was on tight and it was difficult to pull air through the filter. there was a regular filter plus a flimsy pad which is what I'm guessing you're speaking of that said to add this when assembling if using pesticide or paint.

there wasn't any other brands offered besides 3M. is that brand something you have to order online or would a competitor have it?

I would go and purchase one but luckily my ladies got diagnosed young so they can get dunked which I think is superior over spraying as far as coverage rates. if I was spraying tho, I would want one of those as any part of my skin got super itching.

That's a good tip on the duct tape!! I also thought of rubberbands but the duct tape would work better. thx!!

I just went out there and took a looksee, and to my surprise they look fine and you would never know they had treatments besides a few broken tops from being a bit too tall.

Positive: Cover the exhast with your palm, blow hard from your lung bottoms. The air pressure should escape evenly or somewhat so.

Negative: Remove filters, cover intake holes with palms. Breathe in hard. If you notice air rushing in, adjust straps accordingly. The facemask should ideally collapse/suck in a wee bit.

If you're the only one using the mask, it's usually only necessary to perform this once.

3M and North are the main manufacturers. For your application, 3M is good enough. After 12 hours of masking it up, North pulls ahead with fewer pressure points rubbing your skin raw, and a more flexible material that forms a better seal.

I always get a kick out of bearded growers wearing facemasks, one defeats the other. Hopefully not an issue here.

Are you sure that the leaf spiral in the picture above is from broad mites?
I have a plant with the same issue, it was throwing one bladed leaves then I noticed the exact same spiral as your picture.

When I look it up, it looks nothing like BM damage. Looks more like environmental stress. Like a timer messed up or distrubing the dark cycle. People also say its from revegging if you took a clone from a flowering plant. But I took my clone before the plant went into flower.

yourcorpse said:

Are you sure that the leaf spiral in the picture above is from broad mites?
I have a plant with the same issue, it was throwing one bladed leaves then I noticed the exact same spiral as your picture.

When I look it up, it looks nothing like BM damage. Looks more like environmental stress. Like a timer messed up or distrubing the dark cycle. People also say its from revegging if you took a clone from a flowering plant. But I took my clone before the plant went into flower.

Click to expand...

That is a common symptom of reveg for me. I don't know that she was really saying that was bm's, she has a good vid that could certainly be them though.

Not saying she doesn't have them, could have BM and a reveg/stressed plant and one would connect the dots thinking that this weird leaf came from the bugs.

order some lab gloves from watson{they are heavy and thick
go half way up your arm either black or i choose green}. I always leave my exhaust on when i spray.
Those swirly leaves are very common with reveg i see them everytime. I have seen high does of phos do it to some flowering plant too. I have never had BM and never plan to see them i am isolated and i do not bring things in to my room with out proper precautions.

thought I had taken the proper precautions and symptoms didn't start to show until about 3 weeks into veg. I had just pinched back a bunch of tips of the pennywise as they had grown much taller and was trying to slow it down. the regrowth leaves on two of them started coming back like I hadn't pinched all of it away like when you FIM. I didn't think much of it. all the plants were packed tight together so the leaves didn't really stand out to me and now in hind sight, I should've spent more time looking over the leaves on a regular basis. if I had done this, then I would've noticed the one and two fingered leaves and then I would've seen the burnt orange preflower pistils. the pistils is what through me off and scared me as the leaf curling doesn't look typical of BM damage. I broke out the scope and saw a light reflecting off something that was moving. it is a very very small bug. much smaller than a spider mite which I have seen for sure. the video on my phone is much better quality and I tool this in to the hydro store to have someone look at it and they said they thought that was it. I also called the collective where I got them and they said they also have them as well. I am very sure it is broad mites or it could be cyclamen mites as it did not want to be in the light as BM do not care either way from what I've read. either way, the treatment I choose will work for both types.

all the new growth on the penny's have the stressed leaves. all plants were bought on 9/15ish so they were only 3 weeks (plus time to root/sit on shelf to be bought) at diagnosis.

the penny's looked great upon purchase and the durbans looked like they had revegged leaves everywhere with one or two leaves that show typical damage from BM. they had a rough start but then they started to take off growing and the leaves started growing normally. then about a week later the stressed out look came back and I found them like this. I think the Forbid had worn off.

EDIT: I asked about the revegged look to the Durbans and was told by someone who runs and knows this strain that this is very typical of the Durban when being cloned or having too little root space as it likes a bigger than normal container. he said it would snap out of it and push out five fingered leaved which it did do and it did respond well to the container upgrade. I have not up potted them since but they're not the ones showing signs of he stressed out leaves.

I don't use a timer in my veg room as I really don't know why...I just turn the bulb off around noon and turn it back on around 4-5pm. I don't think this would be an issue as they are in veg and it hasn't deviated much from that schedule.

the night time temps are around 65-70 depending on how much the dehumidifier runs because of RH outdoors. the daytime temps can be anywhere from 70 to 77F depending on the temp outside and RH. I recently bought a thermostat controlled fan controller and it turns on around 70 degrees and brings in air passively and shuts off when it gets down to 67 degrees where the RH goes up then to about 55% and then the dehuey turns on pumping out heat and then a few degrees later the fan turns on and pumps in fresh air till it cools to 67 and it starts all over again.

I poke my head in there periodically through out the day and most times the temp is either 75 or 71.

the only other thought is that it could be micronutrients as I have given them a weekly dose of Sea-Crop from Washington state not AEA but it is seriously just 5ml splash in a 2-3 gallon brewer. that is what causes the perfect pretty spiral leaves according to most AG sites.

Just a short post about what I did since last.

yesterday I cleaned, vacuumed, boiled and scalded, scrubbed the veg room for three hours. mom drove over my botanicare 3x3 tray and it didn't crack! removed everything that didn't absolutely need to be in there. vacuumed all filters on AC and dehuey, and scrubbed down fans.
broke my pipe but got it replaced with a even better, prettier one, on a side note

planted clones in small plastic containers and topdressed EWC, alfalfa, fish bone meal, and myco powder and gave them a feeding of superthrive, yucca, ful-power, dr bronners and 100% neem oil. I then put then in the veg room since they are acting like they have them too. didn't scope them because the scope is still dirty. I need to find a thing on how to sterilize the glass part. I'm not sure but I think condensation can get in there.

I have also almost finished my IPM prevention program that I am tailoring towards broad/cyclamen mites using organic implements and predatory mites. all I have left to do is choose which mites to use and where to get them. I am interested in time released sachets and heard you can get them quite affordably. many predatory mites will colonize if you provide feed during times when there are no mites to eat like nematodes or pollen (I'm thinking cut flowers) but I need a little bit more research on choosing which ones are best. this way they can establish in my bloom tent and I don't have to worry about sprays in the veg room. also, does neem residue on the leaves hurt them? I would think so.

I am optimistic even despite the dreary pnw clouds even if I have to cull and burn again, I don't care. the BM/CM will not win. positive thought being projected into the universe! and a bong toke.....

EDIT: I can collect spiders from outdoors and put them in my room can't I??

Respect llb, u are doing a great job. I have no doubts u will eradicate them. Did u treat all ur plants with avid? If so ur in good shape with everything else u did. I like 2 treatments to break their cycle and get any u might have missed on the first round. but otherwise u did a really thorough job!

Spiders! I don't like them, I kill them if they enter my space. I know there good and all, just not where im gonna be. We cant live together in the same house. Outside my house im ok with them, as long as they keep there distance. lol

I have enough for another application of dunks or I could space it out into three or so sprays. it's good for at least five days so I plan on applying at that time. I can't decide between doing a dr doom pyrethrum bomb today, dr bronners spray or doing a neem dunk? which is better for eggs and larvae? the dr doom is easy to do so that is a plus, but the soap spray would kill eggs but might also wash off the residual of the avid the neem oil would work well I think but didn't know if I should apply that WITH the next avid treatment so I'm not trying to break through the neem oil layer that is left on the leaf surface so the avid can get to the tissue so it can be translaminar..... I need a bong hit.

Day 1: dunk in full strength Nuke Em and soil drench, cleaned room and wiped everything down with left over Nuke Em. Pyrethrum bombed room and garage.
Day 2: dunked in Avid, drenched soil and ran out of there.
Day 3: Cleaned and sterilized everything.
Day 4: Transplanted clones that were treated with avid, neem soil drench, and superthrive. (something to treat eggs that are hatching)

IPM Plan for Prevention

There are many definitions of integrated pest management, but the one that UC IPM has always used is the following.

Integrated pest management (IPM) is an ecosystem-based strategy that focuses on long-term prevention of pests or their damage through a combination of techniques such as biological control, habitat manipulation, modification of cultural practices, and use of resistant varieties. Pesticides are used only after monitoring indicates they are needed according to established guidelines, and treatments are made with the goal of removing only the target organism. Pest control materials are selected and applied in a manner that minimizes risks to human health, beneficial and nontarget organisms, and the environment.
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/index.html

Soil: I have added neem seed meal and expanded shale that slow releases silica. I also have used 100% neem oil emulsified with Dr Bronners Mint soap as a soil drench and plan on using on a monthly. I like the smell it’s like peanut sauce. I would also like to get some Gnat Nix by Growstones which is recycled glass top mulching which acts just like DE but you can get it wet. I’ts around $14 for a bag and is reusable. I am hoping I can use both of these to help prevent flyers which help spread pests and hurt plants.

Veg Period: I have found many recipes for foliar sprays that have a few different things added to do different modes of action. I am choosing to use neem oil, aloe and dr bronners in a blender and fill half way with water. Many of the recipes call for pro-tek silica and the blending of that with neem oil has specific instructions that I want to avoid as I’m a simple lady and silica is in the soil already which still gives the plants the signal to boost immunity. I am adding the amounts speficied on the bottles, so read the directions. I am also going to rotate in Monterey Spinosaid and yucca extract and a third rotation of a simple Dr Bronners soapy spray down. These three sprays will be put on rotation as preventative measure to repel anything that comes in and if something does lay eggs, these organic products will kill larvae, juveniles, adults, and eggs so each area is covered to nip the problem right from the get go within a few days time of introduction.

I also read that plants can have Beaurivia Bassiana conidia spores applied to the leaf surface when wet with spray and the spores will go into the plant tissue and exist inside the plants lifetime waiting for a feeding insect. Botanigard WP is this product and I thought, why not? Spray them down with the product then sprinkle a smidge on the leaf surfaces. I could even see how effective it is by doing some plants and not doing others.

Bloom Period: Before flowers start to appear, one last spray of neem will be given. Then I will discontinue Dr bronner sprays when I see pistils puffing and trichs wanting to appear. Then I wanted to use Botaniguard to spray once a week till this harvest is completed and then eventually use only when needed. It can also be used with beneficial insects (certain varieties) but these are mostly for thrips, white flys and mealy bugs as Botanigard doesn’t say that it is effective towards mites. Ag edu sites though have studies showing it is effective in controlling broad mites but not eliminating them.
Cyclamen mites showed better promise towards predatory mites as a means to control. For total elimination they suggested chemicals combined with horticultural oils and then a organic IPM plan put in place to avoid reinfestation which is my plan.

http://www.met52ec.com/features-benefits
another product that contains another bacteria that is actually is said on the label to kill mites, unlike Botanigard is Met52 which comes in granular or liquid form. It is said not to be as effective as Botanigard but maybe the combo would be more effective than using each alone?

Cleaning and Sterilization practices: Cleaning up anything on the floor EACH TIME NO MATTER WHAT. Sometimes this can feel old and we get lazy but by keeping a small hand vac, taking off shoes/clothes/putting on suit/washing hands, before going inside your sterile grow, will be less time, emotion, agony, than dealing with pests. I would like to go get a steam mop as soon as I see a good sale, I’m on that. Mopping with boiling water is okay I would think if you keep the water from losing too much heat as boiling water is 212F and so it should be used immediately but it’s not ideal at all. Add some bleach for peace of mind AT THE END; NOT WHILE BOILING.

Outdoor Environment Practices: So I have looked up common cannabis pests on UC Davis for management and control info. Root aphids are farmed by ants and there is a huge ant population a short distance from my grow room and a veggie garden in between that. This summer we had leaf hoppers or thrips or some teal bug that turned red as the summer shortened. This year we did not have aphids much but there are years that aphids attack! So, for RA prevention, eradication and control, it is suggested that the only treatment that isn’t even completely successful is removal of plants and roots, including weeds for an entire three years. Ha. No chems were successful, at least with corn and sugar beet management. But the idea has inspired me to completely clean up the veggie garden, amend with compost/chicken poop this spring, and set out borax ant treatments by the ant hills as a way to control hopefully. By increasing the compost (we are literally making huge piles this year) and using alfalfa bales to mulch this winter, I’m hoping the plants will have better nutrition as that suffered this year. This ground has had a garden in the same plot since the early 70’s with no rest and the land shows. Leaves on fruit trees are lacey with holes, apples are small and scabby, and veggie plants just seemed poor and suffering. Suffering plants send signals that insects pick up and then selectively pick off the plants as a way of natural selection. This is a great way, in my opinion, to keep my indoor garden as well as the outdoor veggies thriving to ward off attack. I tried to talk mom out of growing veggies and giving the garden a rest but that was not in the picture.

Day 1: dunk in full strength Nuke Em and soil drench, cleaned room and wiped everything down with left over Nuke Em. Pyrethrum bombed room and garage.
Day 2: dunked in Avid, drenched soil and ran out of there.
Day 3: Cleaned and sterilized everything.
Day 4: Transplanted baby clones that were treated with avid, neem soil drench, and superthrive. (something to treat eggs that are hatching) <--didn't do but I did create a hostile environment for BM/CM by running the temps at 90F with RH 30% under 1400w.
Day 5: Avid Dunk with added horticultural oil with included spreader and sprayed baby clones. Sprayed down all surfaces with spray as well as the door jams and drenched soil. went back in after a few hours and the treatment had dried and turned on the 400w light and kept door open, fans off, guessing temp is about 58F. last application of Avid. All applications after this will be organic measures that will be targeting eggs, larvae and juveniles in a three part combination spray courtesy of xxxstr8edgexxx.
i mix in one tank.
medium dose of pyganic
medium dose azadactin (neem extract)
medium dose of spinosad
a little mint dr. bronners.
spray every plant all over every 3rd day 4 times.
this is done on the cusp of harvest so that the 4th treatment happens in the flowering room on day of flip

have a good day and hope all is well with you and your girls.


also: using these chems on spider mites is not suggested by ag sites. they actually say that it makes your problem worse. these problems are solved organically. using it for PM or stupid stuff because you can't control environment is poor choices. these are only for broad mites, cyclamen mites, and RA if that even works which research is showing nothing but pulling up crop roots and no planting for 3 years is the best way to eliminate root aphids.

You paint a bleak picture on RA's. I think there are better measures that will allow you to keep growing. Go to the Fungus Gnats or winged Root Aphids thread in the Infirmary. I got no kill whatsoever on RA's with Nuke 'Em, 2 apps, following instructions Eggs Ackley. Good luck. -granger

It sounded pretty bleak to me as well. I hope I don't get them as it sounds just as frustrating as what I'm dealing with. I think you had mentioned a cedar product on that thread or a similar one. How well does the cedar work in repelling them?

Cedarcide PCO Choice is great for an area spray, or for a pretreatment drench for your medium, followed by a preplant flush. I've stopped using it as a drench because it causes too much root damage unless you mix very weak, then I don't know if it's effective. In an extreme case, I would consider using it because it flat kills all stages including eggs at as close to 100% as anything. Organic. Good luck. -granger

I did come across this just now on Botanigards http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/controlling-root-aphids-with-botanigard.pdf

says people have had great success by dipping the root ball for up to four hours?! complete submergence was best. I have also heard of people adding nemotodes which take a while to get going in your soil but will help any reinfestation issues or dormancy type stuff. I think I am really sold on the botanigard

Took some pics of the aftermath and some close ups of the weird leaf stuff I'm seeing.

ooo shiny...


spiral leaf

my clones always get moldy I water once and this happens....