How to correct a bad N deficiency late in the game?

plantingplants · Aug 9, 2016

So my plants have a pretty bad N deficiency. The fan leaves are dead half way up on the stalk and are creeping up branches now. I don't know if I just haven't watered regularly enough to keep microbes mineralizing the N in my crab meal or what but they need some N.

I'd like to stay with organic inputs but I'm willing to accept that I don't have my organic technique on point and I let this deficiency get out of hand... meaning the time for organics is passed and maybe some ammonium sulfate is in order.

Is there an organic N source I can fertigate with? Or will a strong enough foliar correct it?

If this isn't the best way to go then what salt should I use? Probably ammonium sulfate?

I'll throw a link in to my soil test results later. Its in my Plant Farm 2016 thread. I have high K and Ca is creeping upwards to 70s. So probably not Calnit. I should get another test.

who dat is · Aug 9, 2016

I would top dress with blood meal for the fastest organically available Nitrogen source that I can think of. Careful that you don't burn your plants with it though.

Otherwise you can pee in a jug or something and dilute it down to a 10:1 ratio of water/pee. Organic Ammonium Nitrate :yes:

Stone House · Aug 9, 2016

who dat is said:
I would top dress with blood meal for the fastest organically available Nitrogen source that I can think of. Careful that you don't burn your plants with it though.

Otherwise you can pee in a jug or something and dilute it down to a 10:1 ratio of water/pee. Organic Ammonium Nitrate

I agree, blood meal top dressing is the route I would go.

_tessarecting · Aug 9, 2016

I started to notice N def....I used seabird guano pellets...solved...
I also noticed I wasnt foliaring enough...so I upped it.

Look into liquid guano for N. Aurora makes high N guano derived product called soul... 8-0-0.

MJPassion · Aug 9, 2016

I'd go with the high N guano myself but not sure that's the correct route.

You definitely want something that immediately available along with something that would last for the next few weeks & be gone by harvest.

I believe the guanos are faster to uptake than the blood. Could have it backwards though as I'm going from memory.

Gizmo · Aug 9, 2016

why not a organic liquid fert high in N ? quicker than top dressing no ?

who dat is · Aug 9, 2016

MJPassion said:
I'd go with the high N guano myself but not sure that's the correct route.

You definitely want something that immediately available along with something that would last for the next few weeks & be gone by harvest.

I believe the guanos are faster to uptake than the blood. Could have it backwards though as I'm going from memory.

I would imagine that it's the other way around.

I would top dress with the blood meal and also top dress with an all purpose dry fertilizer to carry you through til the end of flower. Then you could segue over to higher P guanos and whatnot for early/mid flower.

Bloodmeal>All purpose>Guanos>coast to finish line

:2cents:

plantingplants · Aug 9, 2016

So I think blood meal is 12% insoluble N.

I really shouldn't add any other nutes besides N.

I can't find liquid organic N? I'll check out aurora soul. Hopefully it's still cost efficient.

I guess I do need some insoluble to break down. But I'm confused. Either they didn't have enough soil/crab meal, so they ran out of N (they had almost a yard each and each yard has 60 lbs of 4-3-1 crab), or there's still a lot and it isn't being mineralized so a top dress of insoluble wouldn't either right?

Thanks for all the help!!

who dat is · Aug 9, 2016

plantingplants said:
So I think blood meal is 12% insoluble N.

I really shouldn't add any other nutes besides N.

I can't find liquid organic N? I'll check out aurora soul. Hopefully it's still cost efficient.

I guess I do need some insoluble to break down. But I'm confused. Either they didn't have enough soil/crab meal, so they ran out of N (they had almost a yard each and each yard has 60 lbs of 4-3-1 crab), or there's still a lot and it isn't being mineralized so a top dress of insoluble wouldn't either right?

Thanks for all the help!!

Free 99

Immediately plant available, would keep critters away. Just remember dilution ratio.

plantingplants · Aug 9, 2016

So urine is 11-1-1.25 in the form of urea, ammonia, and creatine, and I'd be so down to use my urine but it's high in salts. I'm already high in sodium and I think my water might be as well. PS the deer around here don't give a shit about urine.

Aurora Grow-N is 8-0-0 8% ca. A mix of guano, calnit, and magnit. That much Ca shouldn't hurt at this stage but not sure how much mg is in there.

So I found what may be the best solution. Hydrolyzed fish powder. 12-1-1 with 10% soluble N. Expensive though.

who dat is · Aug 9, 2016

It sounds like you have all the pieces to your puzzle on the table, you just have to arrange them as you see fit to put the puzzle together. At this point it's your judgment call.

My last piece of advice to you would be to settle on a solutions and pursue it. Don't hem and haw like you did with transplanting and culling plants several months ago.

We're all rooting for you :yes:

slownickel · Aug 10, 2016

I think you have a terrible root problem due to lack of calcium and overwatering. Apply powdered milk, 20 grams or so per plant well diluted and then turn off the water.

plantingplants · Aug 10, 2016

Lol thanks who dat. You got me pegged. Thanks.

Nickel, I have a plant ripped out. Is there any way to visually confirm a terrible root problem? I still don't know why you're saying I have a ca problem. Bet you my Ca is around 70-80% right now. Also the ones I added gypsum to (300g) are also n deficient.

As far as water, every big yielder I know really dumps the water on.

slownickel · Aug 10, 2016

If that calcium isn't all carbonate, your feeder roots should all have feeder roots, tiny little white hairs. All the roots should be a beautiful white color.

Everyone that I have been talking to is over watering. Even Shcrews lowered his water by a huge percent.

If you did an incomplete soil analysis and didn't take into consideration the issues of carbonates in your soil, then your calcium is understated dramatically and your K, Mg and Na are way understated.

Read this about soil analysis and the issue of carbonates. If you have bicarbonates in your water, the problem is worse.

http://goo.gl/tu1id6

Dying to hear how this works out.

TheOutlawTree · Aug 10, 2016

I've used Aea sea shield @ 1 oz per gallon, As well as that ferti-nitro n product @ 4 grams per gallon to get nitrates up.

I don't water them in together, but depending on how low the plants are on n, you can feed it back to back. In the spring some of my starts got root bound and n deficient so I did 2 drenches back to back of that seashield 1oz per g, without any burn at all.

slownickel · Aug 10, 2016

OTree,

You don't find that stuff just a bit too foofoo and quite expensive?

Seems like major bucks to me.

oct · Aug 10, 2016

Overwatering can cause an N deficiency. Not saying you are but I've seen it happen quite often. Right at stretch is when I see most deficiencies rear their head.

Fish protein foliar. PPD works wonders.

slownickel · Aug 10, 2016

Stretch is when maximum emission of roots occur. If Ca is not adequate, things go toes up pretty quick.

Let's see what his roots look like from the torn out plant.

Wash the roots real carefully and take lots of pics, up close, etc..

This will be fun.

slownickel · Aug 10, 2016

slownickel · Aug 10, 2016

Cheerleaders.

How to correct a bad N deficiency late in the game?

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