Cannabis, the effect from increasing photo-period by only 15 or 30 min.

StrongBeef · Nov 13, 2014

Well said beta test team.

I was trying to imply that, and take it one step further. If they trigger the same day, which means the same amount of daylight/moonlight, then why would changing the photo-period inside help? The only difference between the indica and sativa's in my garden regarding light periods would be the sativa's get slightly less light late in flower because they go into Nov. As appose to the indica that is finished by oct. However the ratio of day to night hours don't change naturally. So why indoors would one think tweaking this day/night ratio would make a difference?

Riddleme · Nov 13, 2014

StrongBeef said:
Well said beta test team.

I was trying to imply that, and take it one step further. If they trigger the same day, which means the same amount of daylight/moonlight, then why would changing the photo-period inside help? The only difference between the indica and sativa's in my garden regarding light periods would be the sativa's get slightly less light late in flower because they go into Nov. As appose to the indica that is finished by oct. However the ratio of day to night hours don't change naturally. So why indoors would one think tweaking this day/night ratio would make a difference?

Because it does, try it and see for yourself

Beta Test Team · Nov 13, 2014

I have Riddleme, for many years, and it does not do what you're claiming in our experience (we analyze our harvests, we don't just look at them). Nor did it do what you're claiming in the Ph.D. thesis I cited.

Again, we're the reason this thread was started, from posts I made about our experiences and that of published research. We have been using greater than 12 hour photoperiod for many years.

Our past rooms are nearly ideal in all aspects for researching plant growth (specific to high irrdiance plants like Cannabis), not under florescent lamps. And our new room we're building soon is ideal for studying Cannabis, which is why we paid over $5,500 for Greenbeam luminaires for a 6'x8' canopy.

With this setup we can control DLI to a very fine degree, and irradiance uniformity is amazing (among the best in the world, it's hard to get better), therefore we can study effects of DLI and photoperoid, separately, unlike anyone else thus far has done with Cannabis. That is, we can provide the same DLI in flowering as we do in veg, or less, or more, because our ballasts can be dimmed by 50%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%, and likely even 55%, 65%, 75%, etc.

Riddleme · Nov 13, 2014

Thank you for saying in your experience !!! Which of course does not make it untrue. I don't know you and you don't know me. I love the science and I love a good debate. At my website we have a geneticist, a few chemist, a few engineers, and several botanist as well as several actual farmers. We discuss this stuff every day and I have been growin and experimentin with this plant for over 40 years. Not much I have not "observed" in that time.

I have spent several years looking for strains that have the early amber (some call it true amber) gene. It is known only in Sativas has never been seen in an Indica, but does carry into hybrids. One plant I grew for almost 3 years from clones was a Pineapple Express. These grows were clone from a clone from a clone, I don't keep Moms. It did not show early amber until I changed the light timings to mimic the equator. Since changing the light timing each and every PE plant has shown early amber in week 6. Most of the crosses I have made with it show in week 5 If I grow em under 12/12 and up none of them show it. Since changing my light timing I have brought it out in several strains including Mango, Wappa & Durban Poison. I look for this trait in my breeding projects and most all my strains carry this gene. This was why I said it may well be a genetic expression rather than a Pheno expression. But the simple fact remains that it works and I am not the only one doin it, others have seen the same thing I have "observed" simply by changing their light timing. To also be fair they are supplementing UVB same as me and using sulfates same as me (cause they follow me) as these 3 things are needed to see the the early amber present itself.

You are not the OP in this thread though you claim it was you that started the conversation and to be honest (without attacking) it seems as though your post are following some agenda rather than "allowing" an open discussion. With that said I'll butt out and let you follow your agenda

Beta Test Team · Nov 13, 2014

If agenda = science, then you got me.

Your website sounds great, is it in your dreams or imagination? (Kidding, I'm sure it's great.)

StrongBeef · Nov 13, 2014

Riddleme said:
Because it does, try it and see for yourself

Well is some random guy on the internet said it, it must be true...... :laughing:

Bubbleblower · Nov 14, 2014

;6651286 said:
He's wrong, again. It's about DLI (photons).

If the photoperiod was 12 hours but DLI was that of a 10 or 11 hour day

If the photoperiod was 12 hours the DLI could only be that of a 12 hour day you genius.

Can we get back on topic and move forward now?

I suspect the effects from changing photo period also depend on the amount of vegging time, among other things.

The longer the vegging time the less dark hours it takes to initiate flowering.

The difference could add up to a few hours so you could eventually use a 16/8 schedule for flowering.

That would probably give the ultimate couchlock effect and might be great for pain relief.

Beta Test Team · Nov 14, 2014

Bubbleblower said:
Beta Test Team said:

stihgnobevoli said:

^^^ i think you mean shorter light means it finishes faster. unless summer sun is shorter where he is. i don't know which post you quoted.

Click to expand...

He [Bubbleblower] is wrong, again. It's about DLI (photons).

If the photoperiod was 12 hours but DLI was that of a 10 or 11 hour day, then you would see (pretty much) the same response.

Click to expand...

If the photoperiod was 12 hours the DLI could only be that of a 12 hour day you genius.
Can we get back on topic and move forward now?

I suspect the effects from changing photo period also depend on the amount of vegging time, among other things.
The longer the vegging time the less dark hours it takes to initiate flowering.
The difference could add up to a few hours so you could eventually use a 16/8 schedule for flowering.
That would probably give the ultimate couchlock effect and might be great for pain relief.

How do you think one calculates DLI?...

Here you go:

PPFD x photoperiod x 0.0036

To provide the DLI from a 10 or 11 hour day, in a 12 hour day, just reduce the PPFD over the 12 hours relative to that over the 10 or 11 hour day, such that the final DLI for the 12 hour day is the same as from a 10 or 11 hour day. This of course is easier in a growth chamber, or a controlled greenhouse, than outside, which is why we're building that growth room I posted about.

Bubbleblower, really, you should stop. You get smacked down with your silly claims pretty often from what I've seen. You don't know enough to make the claims you make. You just make yourself look foolish, and then you don't back down, you just keep at it...it's kinda crazy,especially when you make fake accounts just to try and stir up trouble. Now if you were correct, or a genius, that would be different, but you're not.

Oh yea, that other part of your post is something you just made-up. Unless you can cite your claim as it relates to science, that: "The longer the vegging time the less dark hours it takes to initiate flowering." Don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

mr. gt · Nov 15, 2014

^^haha. That was me. I am glad there are other intellectual people who can see through him as well.

I tried to civilly have a debate with him, he got insecure and tried to bully me to keep me quiet. After seeing him lash out at me, I was like, who the hell is this guy. So I go to the first page and he says "Dj Shorts work is horse puckey"!!! hahaha gtfo of here. He claims to have more knowledge growing than Dj Short, who according to him, is "only good at breeding" His speech and grammar leads me to believe he's around my age but much more immature.

Look at his last 2 posts. He claims that 'from what he sees' someone gets smacked down pretty easily in their claims? wtf? also makes fun of Riddleme's website, who took the time to start his own site, and forum, when he himself doesn't post any of his work? A definite troll. I cant believe he actually thinks hes fooling people with his elite status.

My thesis is he is definitely extremely insecure (im insecure a bit myself, but have the balls to admit it) and has daddy issues at the very least, chronic lier, whatever the psychological term is where he feels he needs to 'know it all', etc. Probably thinks the fact that he frequents this site makes him a 'bad ass'. Just look at his previous posts like I did. Has nothing to do with growing (at least from a week or 2 ago)

I, in fact, grew up with a mother who is schitzophrenic and have been fascinated with behavioral psychology myself. I love trying to figure out why people do what they do. It is a reason I am very quiet and observe.

sorry to the OP, but this needs to be put out in the open. (in my eyes at least) I am very interested in this topic as well and will be sure to be posting my own 'beta tests'

I promise that was my last pun.

~mr. gt

DrFever · Nov 15, 2014

lmao why in the fuck would my name be brought up in that post ???? may be its because i am not afraid to say like fuck you got that much when plants clearly showed other wise lol idunno
but i will in a min go on the attack when you Here BS

As for this thread in all seriousness one just has to look at what mother nature has done Sativa plants abundant near equator longer more intense sunlight creates higher potent weed then there cousins Indica where the sun intensity and season is much shorter simple

Are you going to see the difference Fuck no i mean you ???? Do you got million dollar scientific tools ???? or send samples in at a pretty penny to get it analyzed ??? what are you going to gain better weed here is a wake up call folks your not going to get any more money for it actually as Canibus starts legalizing everywhere costs are going to go down as every tom dick and harry will start growing
Who the fuck you kidding , seriously now .... your costs go up growing your weed but guess what Electricity isn't getting cheaper may be instead of going longer photoperiod bumping it up why not just add more intense lighting ??? after all its been proven more light intensity = better yields
ALL YOUR DOING IS RAISING YOUR ELECTRICAL COSTS UP and for what ?? Again Fuck all Grow your Sativa or indica,,,,, keep it simple keep costs down thats the name of the game but again who am i say how you want to do it
And speaking for myself you get tired of the same repetitive threads , questions , its not that the good growers have got banned some might have who knows but others decide they also have a life rather then be on here people, growers move on

LSWM · Nov 15, 2014

willstown said:
Maybe we will be stuck with him for a few years until his balls drop and he finally grows up, kinda like DrFever. (Sorry Dr...)

Quoted and liked purely for this. I really mean no offense Beta, just laughing at the forum wide hate of the Dr.

DJXX · Nov 15, 2014

LOL this thread is smokin...DJXX

Beta Test Team · Nov 15, 2014

Wow, someone's off their meds...

DrFever · Nov 15, 2014

LSWM said:
Quoted and liked purely for this. I really mean no offense Beta, just laughing at the forum wide hate of the Dr.

Owe you dislike me haha funny ,, I am sorry i don't fall for the vert circle jerker club TBO for someone claiming .75 GPW when it clearly shows that is way above average vert grows??? being shown on here and on other forums.
You amaze me Really you do,,
just by going through your so called thread ?? you boast your ridiculous claims but in the so called last week you mention you will post pictures yet nothing but what does is your final weight post , clearly shows your full of shit let alone your other posts can you run epaps less then a foot from the roof again clearly shows 1 either your not to bright or 2 your a noob i take both as your excuse i could have my 10 year old daughter read info on epaps and even she could come to the conclusion that lots of heat will be coming out the top
Anyone can clearly see that most of your posts or questions you post shows you are very very green and not very smart so i guess this is why you dislike me ?? that fine and dandy its only the internet where there is tons of frauds like your self have a great day looking forward to some more of your funny posts :laughing:

StrongBeef · Nov 17, 2014

I smell a tissy fit.

blueberrydrumz · Dec 25, 2014

Riddleme said:
up or down there is a lot of info out there, most notably articles/books by DJ Short where he explains that you can bring out indica features using a 13/11 schedule and sativa features with an 11/13. He also says to go plus or minus in 15 min increments to find sweet spots for various genetic traits.

For the last year I have run 11:20/12:40 to get sat traits to show and it works great. I just recently switched to a 6.5 hours on, .5 off, 4 on, 13 off schedule to see if I can lesson the effects of midday depression.

and don't forget the gaslight 12/1 veg lighting

what has your testing shown youe bout the re midday depression..
does that 6.5 on .5 off 4 on 13 off scedule change Yield & Quality wise?
thx

DrFever · Dec 25, 2014

IMO i think he has it shit ass backwards its not the light schedule what does it its light intensity and conflicting VPD that causes midday depression
IMO if anything is going to change i would start playing around with vapor pressure deficit that is the key GAS exchange

temps humidity all play a important role
You want light intensity so that stomata stays open allowing gas exchange , But the VPD , humidity is closing the stomata , so really by turning on or off your lights is not doing a god dam thing but effecting the process of transpiration and plant osmosis when plants are in light the guard cells take in water thus opening the stomata , when lights go out the guard cells lose there water thus closing the stomata as to not to lose to much water

only thing i could see is if lowering light hrs it would bring out the indica more being indica is a northern plant longer light schedule will bring out the sativa grown near the Equator If you live near the equator, you won’t notice much difference in the amount of sunlight you receive throughout the year. and that is why marijuana grown near the equator has the highest THC....
then there Indica cousins which receive less light thus being less potent

Riddleme · Dec 25, 2014

blueberrydrumz said:
what has your testing shown youe bout the re midday depression..
does that 6.5 on .5 off 4 on 13 off scedule change Yield & Quality wise?
thx

I breed, so my current run is a seed run, it is about done with 3 left to harvest, so yield is measured by seeds LOL but quality in my garden is off the charts because of other things I do. The light schedule has not diminished quality at all. and the plants are doing great that I just flipped 2 weeks ago for a bud run, you are welcome to follow along ,,,,
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=295624

Bubbleblower · Jan 21, 2015

[youtubeif]f0SQrHi44xs[/youtubeif]

BullDogDad · Oct 15, 2015

Beta Test Team said:
I don't see such changes in those leaves (from wide to narrow in the sense of typical 'indica' and 'sativa' leaves). At least nothing short of normal growth changes that I've seen many times from various hybridized cultivars at 12 hour photoperiod (I very rarely grow varieties).

Yeah to me those just look like typical growth changes you see in the average plant. Also, I think young plants have wider leaves. I'm growing HMxBB right now. A true sativa. When they were young (6 to 12in tall) the leaves were quite wide, looking similar to some Shark Shocks I've grown! But as the plant grew the leaves began to thin out. Even before the switch to flower. Then it occurred to me, wide leaves at a young age are probably a good adaptive survival strategy. Bigger leaves means father growth. And the bigger the plant the less likely it is to be killed off by adversity be that climactic, predatory, etc. so I'm not sure that witnessing these growth changes necessarily correlates with a change in genotype. The changes might actually be the genotype.

The gist I got from DJ was simply that, when dealing with land race strains, which have spent decades adapting to niche environments, it's beneficial to mimic as closely as possible the plants native environamental conditions so the plant can most fully express its potential in an otherwise unnatural environment.

Cannabis, the effect from increasing photo-period by only 15 or 30 min.

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