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Lion Air Plane Crash

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terrible... and very suspicious!

brand new plane goes down right after take off?
 
Storm Shadow

Storm Shadow

Active member
Veteran
some people who have looked at the Radar Data say it was Mechanical Failure ..Brand New plane only 800 hours
 
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that was disturbing to watch.

looks like they were banking hard trying to turn around... plane must have plunged not long after the video cuts out.
 
I

Ignignokt

Whoa Herman.... i have phobia of flying, i'm not going to watch that. :frown:
 
MJPassion

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Water- said:
terrible... and very suspicious!

brand new plane goes down right after take off?
Click to expand...


I don't detect foul play... Yet!


The machine was made by man and every once in a while the machines will fail with catastrophic consequences.

What I find even more interesting is the article posted by Storm Shadow.
 
armedoldhippy

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
Water- said:
that was disturbing to watch.

looks like they were banking hard trying to turn around... plane must have plunged not long after the video cuts out.
Click to expand...

bank too hard in a big jet having problems, speed dropping etc...the heavies turn into something with the flight characteristics/capabilities of a cinder block. wings lose lift, down they go. hate it for all aboard & families.
 
BadTicket

BadTicket

ØG T®ipL3 ØG³
Moderator
Veteran
armedoldhippy said:
bank too hard in a big jet having problems, speed dropping etc...the heavies turn into something with the flight characteristics/capabilities of a cinder block. wings lose lift, down they go. hate it for all aboard & families.
Click to expand...

Should't the auto pilot, flight assistant computer thing or whatever it's called make it impossible for the pilots to bank too hard and prevent the plane from stalling? I'm not a pilot or a flight engineer, but I've tried a simulator which had a thing like that.. Unless it's turned off or malfunctioning.

What a sad thing, rest in peace..
 
Lester Beans

Lester Beans

Frequent Flyer
Veteran
Combined experience of 11,000 hours for pilot and copilot. Doubt it was human error. The plane had problems the night before and was repaired. Sounds like it wasn't repaired correctly.

What a shame. RIP
 
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probably a number of things came together to create a tragedy.

poor design, poor maintenence on the ground and pilot error etc.

very close by a few years ago there was the crazy Air Asia crash:

Flight 8501 was a scheduled flight from Surabaya, Java, Indonesia to Singapore on Sunday, 28 December 2014. It was scheduled to depart Juanda International Airport at 05:20 Western Indonesian Time (WIB, UTC+7) and arrive at Singapore Changi Airport at 08:30 Singapore Standard Time (SST, UTC+8).[9] Flight 8501 took off at 05:35. Indonesia AirAsia did not have permission from the Indonesian Ministry of Transportation to operate the route on Sundays.[c][12]

After departure, Flight 8501 was in contact with the Jakarta Area Control Centre (callsign: "Jakarta Centre"),[13] which provides air traffic control (ATC) service over the western Java Sea, and flying along air route M635,[13] when it approached a line of thunderstorms off the southwest coast of Borneo.[14] At 06:12, Flight 8501 was flying at flight level 320—approximately 32,000 ft (9,750 m)—when the cockpit requested and received permission to deviate left from its original flight path to avoid these storms.[15] The pilot then requested to climb to flight level 380,[16] which was deferred by ATC because of other aircraft in the vicinity.[13][17][18][19] AirNav Indonesia, which operates the Jakarta Area Control Centre, reported that Jakarta Centre then cleared Flight 8501 to flight level 340 at 06:14,[d] but no response was received; other aircraft in the vicinity were asked to contact Flight 8501, but also did not receive a response.[13][20]

Between 06:17:00 and 06:17:54, the aircraft climbed from 32,000 to 37,000 ft (9,800 to 11,300 m),[21] exceeding a climb rate of 6,000 ft (1,800 m) per minute, about twice the maximum rate that a commercial aircraft should climb in still air.[22][23] A photo of a secondary radar screen, without a timestamp, showed the aircraft at flight level 363—approximately 36,300 ft (11,100 m)—and climbing with a ground speed of 353 knots (654 km/h), which is too slow to maintain stable level flight in still air.[19][24] The Indonesian Minister of Transport interpreted the apparent aircraft behaviour at peak altitude as an aerodynamic stall, when it began to descend at 06:17:54, descending 1,000 ft (300 m) within six seconds and 8,000 ft (2,400 m) within 31 seconds.[21] The aircraft also began a turn to the left, forming at least one complete circle before disappearing from radar at 06:18:44.[21][25][26][27][28] Its last recorded position was over the Java Sea, Karimata Strait between the islands of Belitung and Kalimantan (3.3708°S 109.6911°E).[25][29] The cockpit voice recorder captured multiple warnings, including a stall warning, sounding in the cockpit during the final minutes of the flight.[30] No distress signal was sent from the aircraft.[31][32] Search and rescue (SAR) operations were activated by the Indonesia National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) from the Pangkal Pinang office.[33][34]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia_AirAsia_Flight_8501
 
Hermanthegerman

Hermanthegerman

Know your rights
Veteran
420giveaway
After posting the link I thought, maybe it is from another flight. Kind of fake? Who found the Phone, is it possible that a cell phone don´t get broken. After a crash and under water? I am not sure at all now.
 
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Hermanthegerman said:
After posting the link I thought, maybe it is from another flight. Kind of fake? Who found the Phone, is it possible that a cell phone don´t get broken. After a crash and under water? I am not sure at all now.
Click to expand...

mobile cloud storage?
 
Zeez

Zeez

---------------->
ICMag Donor
Increasing bank increases stall speed. It would be a real amateur mistake, but it has happened before. In the scenario where they were turning back with a problem it sometimes happens that crews get distracted by the problem and forget to fly the plane. I heard one account stating that the plane was doing 400 when it went in. This is way above, like almost double, what a normal low altitude speed would be.

Indonesian airlines were banned from several countries for several years due to their poor safety record and noncompliance. Do not fly on third world airlines.
 
insomniac_AU

insomniac_AU

Active member
A bit more information today. Apparently the pilot radioed ATC only 3 minutes after takeoff and requested to turn around and return to Jakarta. It wasn't until 10 minutes later they lost contact with the plane. Also the aircraft was only flying at an altitude of 1580M (5180ft). That's way lower than I thought and not high enough for a passenger aircraft to recover from a stall. If that's what caused the crash.
 
insomniac_AU

insomniac_AU

Active member
https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...d/news-story/28de53a23285acd177d9f5386b6731fb


"Preliminary data transmitted by flight 610 now suggests the doomed plane dropped at breakneck speed — falling from an altitude of 1479m in just 21 seconds.
A normal descent for an airliner would be about 450m to 600m per minute, aviation safety expert John Cox told Bloomberg.
Data obtained by FlightRadar24 shows the Lion Air plane descending at more than 9400 per minute.
“This thing really comes unglued,” said Mr Cox, who runs consulting company Safety Operating Systems.
“The numbers are barely believable.”
An analysis of data from the crashed plane by the Aviation Safety website described its speed and altitude during its 13 minutes of flying as “erratic”.
The plane made a climbing left-hand turn after takeoff, climbed to 640m and then dropped down to 450m.
It then climbed again and continued unsteadily for a few minutes between 1370m and 1630m before the fatal plunge.
The Boeing 737 involved in yesterday’s crash had flown a different route on Sunday. Similar data shows it had erratic movements immediately after takeoff, but managed to climb and maintain a steady altitude.
Lion Air has confirmed the aircraft had a “technical problem” on the Sunday flight, “which had been resolved according to the procedure”.


The datalog from the plane's last 2 flights is telling. The first picture is it's flight from Sunday which clearly shows issues on ascent but then stabilises. Second pic is doomed flight.


picture.php

picture.php
 
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