Stupid or useless ingredients

Orrie · Jun 16, 2017

Only Ornamental said:
Why? What's wrong with B vitamins or why do you think they are useless?

Application of vitamin B-1 (thiamine) to root systems of whole plants does not stimulate root growth. This myth arose from early work on plant growth regulators, called auxins, which were mixed with vitamin B-1. Further research throughout the last half of the 20th century investigating the application of auxins to root systems suggested that auxins may stimulate root growth, but that vitamin B-1 on its own does not. Delving deeper into manufacturer claims, many rely on early research (late 1930s and early 1940s) which has been refuted by subsequent research and/or research done on plant roots excised from the mother plant or grown in artificial media (without soil).

Various studies using both woody plants and annual flowers and crops failed to demonstrate that vitamin B1 treatments provide any subsequent growth response. Conversely, vitamin B-1 (thiamine) is an important component of tissue culture media where plant tissues are propagated using sterile conditions and artificial growth media. “Miracle growth” claims used by companies selling vitamin B-1 are usually taken from tissue culture research. Healthy plants manufacture their own vitamin B-1 making it unnecessary to add any additional amounts. Many fungi and bacteria associated with plant roots also produce vitamin B-1, so it’s likely that healthy soils will contain adequate levels of this vitamin without amendment.

https://cals.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/archive/vitaminb1androotstimulators.html

Only Ornamental · Jun 16, 2017

Okay, so B1 in root boosters is useless in your opinion.
Although, B1 is mostly produced in leaves and in situations of higher demand (stress, seedlings) or not enough microbial supply (hydroponics, fresh media), especially the roots can still profit from it. Certainly, thiamine and all the other vitamins aren't essential for plants, there are no true vitamins for plants, but several have a limited supply or energy demanding biosynthesis and external application under some conditions are beneficial. Plus, thiamine has been shown to induce plant immune responses and helps against aphids and foliar pathogens (at concentrations well above those commonly used in rooting cocktails) and helps coping with high salinity stress.

Orrie · Jun 16, 2017

I answered your question with the opinion of someone else of which I choose to agree with.
Does that make it my opinion or what I think?

No matter, lets move on from useless to stupid ingredients.

the stupidest ingredient listed on the label is ‘other’

Only Ornamental · Jul 9, 2017

Suppose it does

. Would be nice if we actually had some personal experiences. Many throw B vitamins in their mixtures and are happy with the results; unfortunately, the B1 is just one of many things in the soup...

The notion "other" certainly is stupid. Pity nobody knows if it's also useless or not.

Easy7 · Jul 9, 2017

Bud hardners, sweetners.

Give the plant the basics at what levels she needs. All the fancy stuff is over priced for little delivery.

When grows came indoors and totally artificial environments, all the gimmicks came rolling out by the boatload.

You can grow fine high yielding herb outdoors with just veg and bloom guano. Guano has a lot of magnesium and calcium. Kelp gives some trace minerals and hormones if you desire to get 'fancy'. Native soil already has the local microbes. Living in a glacial drift there are more than enough minerals here.

FizzyB · Jul 18, 2017

Only Ornamental said:
Water? LoL! Okay, you got me . There are, at least in theory, ways of making liquid fertilisers without adding water or any other liquid... Not sure if the nutrient profile and ratios would hold but more important the price for the raw material is around $ 50-100 per litre.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but there's plenty of dry fertilizers out there.

Dog Star · Jul 18, 2017

Stupid ingredient is a perlite.. you can only get asbestosis from that shit..

Crusader Rabbit · Jul 18, 2017

Dog Star said:
Stupid ingredient is a perlite.. you can only get asbestosis from that shit..

This just didn't sound right to me. Perlite is made from rhyolite, which is basically volcanic glass. Wouldn't want to breathe the dust, but it wouldn't give you asbestosis. Just did a web search and found that the problem was with a vermiculite mine in Libby, Montana which was contaminated with asbestos. The mine was closed in 1990. So the problem vermiculite shouldn't be on the market now.

Only Ornamental · Jul 18, 2017

FizzyB said:
..
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but there's plenty of dry fertilizers out there.

Sure there are but note everyone wants to use dry fertilisers. It's harder and more elaborate to use dry ones for just a few potted plants but very easy and quick if you have a liquid.

Dog Star · Jul 18, 2017

Crusader Rabbit said:
This just didn't sound right to me. Perlite is made from rhyolite, which is basically volcanic glass. Wouldn't want to breathe the dust, but it wouldn't give you asbestosis. Just did a web search and found that the problem was with a vermiculite mine in Libby, Montana which was contaminated with asbestos. The mine was closed in 1990. So the problem vermiculite shouldn't be on the market now.

Readed somewhere that perlite dust if inhaled and if hits a lung tissue can made problems..

but still think that perlite is a stupid amendment as our plants
dont need any aeration... if they needed that amendment a God will use perlite
to sow all this plants that grow wild outdoor..

its a mit.. those perlite using.. thats why i think its stupid
amendment.. but lot of fishes bited that hook..

BubbaBear · Jul 18, 2017

Just because you have to use something with caution doesn't make it stupid or useless. A lot of nutrients can mess you up if you get some in your eye or on your skin it doesn't make them useless. Perlite is a very useful super cheap amendment to aerate soil or coco

aridbud · Jul 18, 2017

Dog Star said:
Readed somewhere that perlite dust if inhaled and if hits a lung tissue can made problems..

but still think that perlite is a stupid amendment as our plants
dont need any aeration... if they needed that amendment a God will use perlite
to sow all this plants that grow wild outdoor..

its a mit.. those perlite using.. thats why i think its stupid
amendment.. but lot of fishes bited that hook..

You can inhale soil spores too, damaging your lungs.Most of us breathe in cotton fibers from our sheets, clothes, and dust.

Have used perlite for 40+ years, but I wear a mask when mixing it. Rock wool dry can be asbestos-like. Organic fibers (like cellulose, cotton, and hemp), unlike rock wool/fiberglass, do not break down in the lungs or body at all. As a result, inhaled organic fibers too big for lung defense cells to ingest but too small to cough up can be more easily permanently trapped as irritants.

Whatever you choose, you should probably take necessary precautions, even pouring out bagged soil.

Dog Star · Jul 18, 2017

Imitate... and dont inovate.. that will be a rule of a tumb if you wish to understand
this World we living in.. observe a nature... learn about her and then aply this to your
grow.. your product will be more natural,better tasting,your plants will grow whithouth defs and will be much happier and healtier..

how can you invent a growing soilmix that plant actually never sees in nature
and expect your product will be best while this same plants grow in soil
for millions of years and never sees perlite around self..

they progressed so much whithouth perlite and now there are growing doctors
that say perlite is a must in a mixes cause of better aeration...

Wish to know who told you these and why you think perlite is usefull in soil mixes??

Usefull for what--- retention of water,aeration?? This are not important at all as soil
good organic rich have this properties better than soilmixes with perlite..

While real true is that you didnt give maximum for your plants cause your pots have
30 or 40% "emptyness" where perlite taking a space and on a place of that space need to be pure soil mix mixed with some worcastings,pure humus rich mix that will sustain and feed your plant in proper way.

FizzyB · Jul 18, 2017

Only Ornamental said:
Sure there are but note everyone wants to use dry fertilisers. It's harder and more elaborate to use dry ones for just a few potted plants but very easy and quick if you have a liquid.

I disagree that it is harder to use dry fertilizer. Dry water soluble ferts can be found at a fraction of the price as bottled nutes. Something like JR peters for example. It may take you 1 minute mix into water, but the money it saves is worth far more than that. Get a small jar with a lid to easily mix into a solution then pour into your reservoir. Or you can topdress. I use Nutri-rich pellets for my basic n-p-k calcium fert on a commercial grow. A 50lb bag is about $15 and can go a long way and, due to it being a longer release, it takes significantly less time than mixing ferts regularly. I feel like a lot of people are scared to try dry ferts but everyone could be saving a lot of money on them.

Only Ornamental · Jul 18, 2017

@FizzyB: True, dry fertilisers are cheaper under others because they are less prone to incompatibilities. For small quantities like a few potted flowers on the balcony, only pelleted ones are useful, all others are too risky (de-mixing of compounds, changing bulk density due "rocks" on top and powder on the bottom). But then again, my liquid fertiliser label for ornamentals says something like "5 ml per litre of water" whereas the label on the dry one goes like "1 bag sufficient for 100 m2"... so for me and many others the diluted liquid has a certain advantage.

jidoka · Jul 18, 2017

Make your own diluted liquid

Only Ornamental · Jul 18, 2017

Working on that but ain't worth it for the ornamentals and balcony flowers which get whatever low budget promotion I stumble upon. The frequently observed imbalances and deficiencies are a welcome training and get remedied by pure single chemicals (expensive pharma grade stuff, for the simple reason that I have them).
Which brings me to another stupid ingredient: pharma grade (if mixed with soil, clay, or other high-impurity stuff). Under certain circumstances, pharma grade is great and has it's advantages but it's fairly pricey and certainly too expensive for standard fertilisers.

Betterhaff · Jul 18, 2017

I don’t know OO, MiracleGro has sold a lot of dry, mixable fertilizer. I’ve always used Peters. But I do agree, certain plants have different nutritional needs that might not be met with a “one size fits all” formulation.

Cannabologist said:
Dyes aren't quite useless - they are often used so that people, mostly children, do not mistake the liquid for plain water, and so do not drink it. This happens often in terms of coloring agents, it's primarily a safety issue, though most do not often realize this.

Only Ornamental said:
Sure, colours help seeing where the liquid is (quite practical during manufacturing and handling) but in the current era of Coke, Fanta, and Gatorade it's hard to believe that a child wouldn't drink a liquid because it's coloured and tastes funny... rather the opposite!

This made me laugh. When I was a kid my dad was working on the car and had put some gasoline in a Coca Cola bottle. He was using it as a degreaser and after multiple times of applying the oil soaked rag to get some more gasoline on it the bottle took on the perfect shade of Coke (or at least so I thought). I came up from behind without him knowing and took a big gulp…not pleasant.

jidoka · Jul 18, 2017

Only Ornamental said:
Working on that but ain't worth it for the ornamentals and balcony flowers which get whatever low budget promotion I stumble upon. The frequently observed imbalances and deficiencies are a welcome training and get remedied by pure single chemicals (expensive pharma grade stuff, for the simple reason that I have them).
Which brings me to another stupid ingredient: pharma grade (if mixed with soil, clay, or other high-impurity stuff). Under certain circumstances, pharma grade is great and has it's advantages but it's fairly pricey and certainly too expensive for standard fertilisers.

I would argue high nitrate and k are the issue with all of the problem with all liquid nutes I know of. It's a motherfucker to remove salt from soup after the fact

Or I could be wrong

FizzyB · Jul 18, 2017

Only Ornamental said:
@FizzyB: True, dry fertilisers are cheaper under others because they are less prone to incompatibilities. For small quantities like a few potted flowers on the balcony, only pelleted ones are useful, all others are too risky (de-mixing of compounds, changing bulk density due "rocks" on top and powder on the bottom). But then again, my liquid fertiliser label for ornamentals says something like "5 ml per litre of water" whereas the label on the dry one goes like "1 bag sufficient for 100 m2"... so for me and many others the diluted liquid has a certain advantage.

There certainly is a simplicity to using liquid ferts, especially if they're already ph adjusted and that's an issue for the user. Some ferts, used in large scale agriculture, can be difficult to figure out the application rate. It gets interesting when trying to figure out how to apply something that has an application per acre. There are however many dry water soluble ferts that have applications similar to liquid ferts (tsp/tbsp per gallon of water). JR Peters has a per gallon rate, so do other lines such as earth juice's water soluble ones (seablast, etc). For someone growing for personal use I say do what you enjoy, but I would recommend trying out something like nutri rich 4-3-2 pellets. It'll save you a few bucks!

Stupid or useless ingredients

Orrie

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