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old seed germ success technique!

waveguide

Active member
Veteran
if a mod thinks this thread fits a different forum, please move it :tiphat:

i'm not really a recipe kinda guy, so i'm sharing this for what it is - anecdotal. though most of my grows have been in a crap micro, decades ago i used to germ seed for a nursery using a variety of techniques, so i've tried many tricks, GA3 et al., and of course, like to make seed with everything i grow.

the technique
after nicking the sides with a file, seeds soak 24 hours in 2 oz. water, a small dab of honey (mesquite, eg. real honey, not grocery store fake), a liberal squirt of h202 (3% in this nation), a pinch of fulvic powder and about 8 "balls" of CaNO3 (one of my favourite amendments for "organic struggling".. say two grains of rice worth by volume).

i had a pack of 16 seeds made by a respected breeder in 2010. i've had difficulty germing them since i received them in 2012, i presume due to poor storage. the seeds were stored in a plastic vial with some grains of dessicant, refrigerated for most of the time since, but still.. up to this point, i was 2 for 13. maybe they throw a tail and whither.

i just got 3/3 on the last seeds in the pack using this method, heads above soil of their own volition, healthy and cracking their own helmets.


the journey
i've always been cautious about h202 and only recently discerned i didn't need to be - i used to give seeds a quick dip, but i've found that seeds can soak in it, and seedlings with bugs can be watered with it, and the seedling will survive (pending h2o2 doesn't mechanically upheave the soil enough to damage roots). so up to this point, i've used these substances, but not in a strong enough solution..

i'm sure any can be substituted, kelp for fulvic, molasses for sugars, anything for nitrogen. i cultivate my techniques with a strong aversion to anything that can't be adapted. the points i'm trying to hit with the combo is of course, N, sugars and a bit of micronutrient/chelate for good karma. but maybe there are some benefits to honey over anything processed? i don't know much about all the kinds of sugars.



superfluous germ tips
everybody has their favourite way suiting their needs, paper towel, plate, straight to soil.. depends how many seeds you have, what kind of gear you got..

my technique is intended to keep the seed observable for the longer period, to avoid mold, and keep them isolated from predation for the longest time, because i can't afford new seeds often.

so:
after a 24 hour soak in warm water they go to the "germ chamber" - this is a small, shallow jar with a layer of rinsed perlite on the bottom. add water/h2o2 below the perlite (or sand or whatever) level, then set the seeds on top of the perlite. the benefit is that radicals (tails) don't intertwine with paper fibers and there's no damage to handle them.

usually healthy seeds show the tail in 24 hours and it's into soil, but if not, the jar gets more light after the first day.

(i'd throw them straight into soil but in the desert there are a lot of moisture seeking predators that make it a bad idea, when you only have one expensive seed).

when i was a kid i used to slice helmetheads with an exacto knife.. never had much luck with it. if a seed helmets or gets a stuck embryo, the easiest way to remove it is with a drop of water on the end of your finger. wait a minute for it to soak in, then anything stuck will slide instead of cling.

i use the same solution above if the seed is still slow at this point, one drop, place it where it sits on top and gradually absorbs in.
 

pipeline

Cannabotanist
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thanks waveguide! I worked for a propagation nursery and germed all kinds of seed too. Everything sounds good there! Great information in that post! I have plenty of old seed thats not been successful for me, I'll have to try this. :smoke:
 

waveguide

Active member
Veteran
good luck.. anyone checking this thread in future.. i also like to start a few days before the full moon :tiphat:
 

sackoweed

I took anger management already!!!! FUCK!!!
Veteran
Always good to try something different and has worked for someone else. Thanks. I still have old bag seed left.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
good luck.. anyone checking this thread in future.. i also like to start a few days before the full moon :tiphat:

Yep...seems plants/seedlings more robust waxing gibbous moon.

Too, I'd rattle old seeds in small match box with sandpaper to scuff outer shell. Then filtered water and diluted hydrogen peroxide (food grade). Works like a charm!
 

Ned K

New member
HI bro I have a similar but different tech . I give gentle file with emery paper . put in H202 food grade 35% for 10 mins . Oops first you have to soak legumes in water for 24 hrs ! cup legumes and 1.5 cups water . drain of water and keep . put legumes I a stew lol. now we done the h202 thing soak in legume water for 24 and then into paper towel also soaked in legume water then wait . Normally see activity with in 72 hrs if not re soak for 2 mins in h2o2 and sit back and wait . the legumes supply everything a new embryo needs to get up and going . cheers .
 

waveguide

Active member
Veteran
soak legumes in water

man i thought i'd heard it all, but there you go, a simpler, more natural method a dumbass industrialist was too commercial to even consider... "can you add more fancy stuff to buy to the recipe?" :tiphat:

i don't know who you are or where you came from, but i'm glad you showed up!

:peacock:

:huggg:

gratitude! :dance013:
 

trichrider

Kiss My Ring
Veteran
man i thought i'd heard it all, but there you go, a simpler, more natural method a dumbass industrialist was too commercial to even consider... "can you add more fancy stuff to buy to the recipe?" :tiphat:

i don't know who you are or where you came from, but i'm glad you showed up!

:peacock:

:huggg:

gratitude! :dance013:
I'd still prefer your method with the germ chamber and perlite...but w/added legume water!
priceless.
thnx both of yas!
 

Ned K

New member
hm

hm

man i thought i'd heard it all, but there you go, a simpler, more natural method a dumbass industrialist was too commercial to even consider... "can you add more fancy stuff to buy to the recipe?" :tiphat:

i don't know who you are or where you came from, but i'm glad you showed up!

thanks for the kudos just another grower on the path .
:peacock:

:huggg:

gratitude! :dance013:

thanks for the kudos just another grower on the path
 
L

larry badiner

I've had good results with germinating seeds under light in a rock wool cube. i just wait until a bunch of roots come out of the cube and plant in a 16oz cup of roots organic.

using this method i got 100% germ rates from old kc brains mango stock, it took about 2 weeks. i don't even ph the cubes or soak overnight, i soak the cube until its wet.
 

Sativied

Well-known member
Veteran
Or, you take the part of the seed you want out of the seed:

1. scrape off edges with a small kitchen knife
picture.php


2. Crack open the shell with your nails or the knife
picture.php


3. Leave the green husk on:
picture.php


4. Or remove it too. It doesn't matter either way. Plant it in something (soil, coco, rock wool, toilet paper, or aerated water) and watch it grow:
picture.php


That excludes the shell being the problem and if it still doesn't grow it's probably dead. No need to wait weeks till enough water penetrated the shell, or the seedling to rot inside cause it can't open the shell fast enough, just open it up.
 

Betterhaff

Well-known member
Veteran
I’ve been playing around with some old seeds lately and found the older they are the longer they take to germ. My normal method (for fresh seeds) is in paper towels between 2 plates. I have a cupboard above my stove exhaust fan with an incandescent light (40W) that acts as a germination chamber. It seems to reach the perfect temperature for germination, almost like a heating mat. Fresh seeds usually crack within 24 hours.

I’m finding the older seeds take much longer, days. With older seeds I scuff and soak and then put them in the towels. I recently had a stubborn batch that swelled a bit but weren’t cracking after days so I decided to just put them in an existing pot anyways. I took them out of cupboard in the morning, left them on the stove but never got around to planting them. That evening I was going to use the stove so I put them back in the cupboard. The next morning I took them out of the cupboard and decided to toss them but didn’t have time so left them on the stove again. When I checked them that evening 1 had cracked and was showing a tail so I planted them all in a fresh cup.

I’m wondering if the change from heat to no heat and so on had any bearing on the seed cracking which would make sense since that’s what happens in the wild. Or maybe the seed was just ready to pop. I’m testing this again with some hard to start seeds but with a more deliberate approach.

I’m also going to try your method waveguide, can never have too many tools in the box. The seeds I’m playing around with are homemade so I’m not worried about the monies although a few are crosses I would really like to take a look at.
 

Truthful

Member
Mix 1 tsp of meat tenderizer in 32 oz of water and soak your beans for 24 hrs, I just got some old P. Butters x Herijuana beans to sprout in 3 days after using this method. The enzymes in the tenderizer break down the tough shells w/o harming the fragile embryo.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
interesting...I have a large pill bottle lined with sandpaper... then into a peroxide mix , ...I got a bunch of old seeds ..always have an open mind and try others techniques...good read... yeehaw
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Great thread!

Just want to mention the use of surgical fine point tweezers to remove seed shells that have split but won't separate from the embryo. Press the tweezers shut, then insert the closed tip into the split opening between the two shell halves. Release your pressure holding the tweezers shut so that the fine point tips separate... pushing the two husks apart. Kinda like the fire dept using their "jaws of life" to open a wrecked car.
 

LostTribe

Well-known member
Premium user
I have tried GA3 in various concentrations without luck. Looking at in vitro if i do anymore old ones.
 

Truthful

Member
I've heard a few people say they slightly crack the beans open with their teeth, like sunflower seeds lol before they soak or plant them too.

If it works it works!
 

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