Haskel pneumatic refrigerant pumps

Dave at Haskel · Dec 4, 2014

Compressor Questions

Compressor Questions

Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm excited to be able to be here and support you! I do travel a lot, so I will respond to questions, but it may be well into the evening (like now) before I'm able to get back to you.

I see lots of questions about compressors. The EXT420 doesn't care what kind of compressor it is connected to, the only thing it cares about is how much air (in CFM) and the pressure. As I mentioned previously, to run the pump at the maximum stoke rate (about 60 cycles per minute), the pump will consume about 25 CFM at 90 - 100 psig. Our air quality recommendation is a 40 micron filter (or better) to stop particulates, dry to a dew point of 40 deg F (these are not very aggressive requirements).

Regarding the type of compressor, I'm not a compressor guy, I would suggest that you contact a local compressor distributor (I would suggest something better than what you get at Home Depot or Sears). I stopped by a compressor distributor recently and they had both 3 phase screw compressors that would do the job (around $10,000) and they had single phase (220 VAC) piston compressors (7-1/2 HP) that would also do it (about $3,000). In the long run a screw compressor, driven by a 3 phase motor will hold up longer and will be much more energy efficient with less maintenance. If you are planning on getting a larger operation going and running more than one pump going at a time, I think you will definitely want a 3 phase screw compressor. Keep in mind that each pump will draw about 25 CFM, so if you were running two at the same time, the compressor would need to deliver 50 CFM.

A compressor distributor can also help you with filters to help meet the air cleanliness requirements I mentioned above.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 4, 2014

icdog said:
Great news Dave. what happens to the EXT420 if you use it with a compressor that doesn't have a refrigeration unit on it?

GW your awesome!

Our drive our cleanliness recommendation is: 40 micron filter (or better) to stop particulates, dry to a dew point of 40 deg F (these are not very aggressive requirements). Depending on local conditions, a refrigeration unit may not be required, you may be able to dry the air sufficiently with filters. I would discuss this with a compressor distributor.

If the compressed air has water in it, the water will wash out the lube in the air drive section, which means that you will need to lube a component in the pump called the "Cycling Valve" more frequently. This is quite simple and takes less than 5 minutes to do (it may take a little longer the first time) and only requires an adjustable wrench and maybe needle nose pliers to pull the cycling valve out.

The process to lube the cycling valve (we also call it a spool or shuttle valve) is to remove a fitting with the wrench, pull the valve out with the needle nose pliers, inspect the o-rings on the spool and liberally apply lube to the spool and o-rings (we recommend using Novagard G-321 which is available from distributors). Then slide the spool back in and put the fitting back in place.

Thanks for asking!

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 4, 2014

SkyHighLer said:
We're honored! A few...

What's your service policy? Will you do repairs at any of the Authorized Repair Facilities? Under warranty? Rebuild parts availability? Are you committed to keeping our pumps up and running, no backorders on parts?

Best, John S

More good questions! We do have authorized repair centers, they are listed on the Haskel website (under "Service"). The pump does have a a 1 year warranty, but the warranty does not cover normal wear and tear such as normal seal wear or preventive maintenance (such as keeping the cycling valve lubricated, which I described in a previous post).

We do offer repair parts and repair kits for all the soft goods in the pump. The pump will come with an assembly drawing that shows where all the seals are. If you are reasonably comfortable with tools (able to do things like brakes on your car), you might be comfortable servicing the unit yourself.

We do try to keep all the parts and seal kits in stock, but I would recommend ordering the seal kits and keeping them on your shelf so you are ready when they start to wear out.

Dave

apollojmr · Dec 4, 2014

Dave, THANK YOU very much for the efforts put forth in this. I am wondering if you can maybe put out some kind of advertising or possibly an advertorial regarding the interior and use of this pump and how it is medical grade stainless steel that will have zero issues with the butane carrying unwanted metals or plastics or any contaminants for that matter? Also will this be marketed as an extract pump or is it just a general use pump? I think you have a lot to gain as a manufacturer if you market towards the cannabis community. We in the community have been battling the facts that we are using makeshift products that are not necessarily used for these purposes and unfortunately in one instance a competing extractor manufacturer even went as far as making an advertorial about the health risks and, made it seem as if we were just evil people putting poison in peoples pipes. I have included a link to the article for you to reference so maybe that will shed a little light on what I am referring to. I hope you understand how detrimental this is for the industry and how welcome it is. Cannabis concentrates are the future and they are dominating the sector now so we have to have this happen. I for one am very happy to have this coming to us in the future and you can count me in on one of these units. PS You had me at 420

http://sasquatchglass.com/poison-coming-bho-closed-loop-extractions-know-youre-smoking/

Chonkski · Dec 4, 2014

apollojmr said:
Dave, THANK YOU very much for the efforts put forth in this. I am wondering if you can maybe put out some kind of advertising or possibly an advertorial regarding the interior and use of this pump and how it is medical grade stainless steel that will have zero issues with the butane carrying unwanted metals or plastics or any contaminants for that matter? Also will this be marketed as an extract pump or is it just a general use pump? I think you have a lot to gain as a manufacturer if you market towards the cannabis community. We in the community have been battling the facts that we are using makeshift products that are not necessarily used for these purposes and unfortunately in one instance a competing extractor manufacturer even went as far as making an advertorial about the health risks and, made it seem as if we were just evil people putting poison in peoples pipes. I have included a link to the article for you to reference so maybe that will shed a little light on what I am referring to. I hope you understand how detrimental this is for the industry and how welcome it is. Cannabis concentrates are the future and they are dominating the sector now so we have to have this happen. I for one am very happy to have this coming to us in the future and you can count me in on one of these units. PS You had me at 420

http://sasquatchglass.com/poison-coming-bho-closed-loop-extractions-know-youre-smoking/

Well put Apollo.

Great post

Rickys bong · Dec 4, 2014

apollojmr, the article you linked to is absolute BS, full of fabricated info and misinformation. I wish people would stop giving this idiot free advertizing.

You have valid concerns, but Pleeeeeze don't link to this crap even as reference.

pusbag · Dec 4, 2014

Thanks Haskel from the cannabis industry

Thanks Haskel from the cannabis industry

I first want to thank you for addressing the needs of our industry since there isnt a pump designed for cannabis extraction until now. I will be ordering one soon and recommend your company to others in the industry. P.S. your company is about to make alot of cash !

Rickys bong · Dec 4, 2014

Dave, I have to ask about what the upper management of Haskell first thought about making a pump for this industry.

I'm sure there were a ton of "you are shitting me right? seriously?" sort of comments when this was brought up in meetings. Was there much resistance? Any funny stories?

On a different note, when the Haskell was first talked about I looked into the specs and noticed the high ratio of drive to output. Why was the 4:1 ratio chosen? 2:1 would still give enough max. output pressure but save a lot of air consumption.

Good to see you guys taking on the niche. How aggressively will you market this?

Thanks.

RB

JColtrane · Dec 5, 2014

So Dave, are there any questions you have of us??? Is there anything you'd like to know about the process ... I'm kinda guessing you've haven't run to many CLS. Maybe run times, pressures at which we're operating, temps at which we're operating, ect? If you guys are committed to working with our industry, it seems only logical that you are dialed into what/how we're doing things. :tiphat:

Dave at Haskel · Dec 5, 2014

apollojmr said:
Dave, THANK YOU very much for the efforts put forth in this. I am wondering if you can maybe put out some kind of advertising or possibly an advertorial regarding the interior and use of this pump and how it is medical grade stainless steel that will have zero issues with the butane carrying unwanted metals or plastics or any contaminants for that matter? Also will this be marketed as an extract pump or is it just a general use pump? I think you have a lot to gain as a manufacturer if you market towards the cannabis community. We in the community have been battling the facts that we are using makeshift products that are not necessarily used for these purposes and unfortunately in one instance a competing extractor manufacturer even went as far as making an advertorial about the health risks and, made it seem as if we were just evil people putting poison in peoples pipes. I have included a link to the article for you to reference so maybe that will shed a little light on what I am referring to. I hope you understand how detrimental this is for the industry and how welcome it is. Cannabis concentrates are the future and they are dominating the sector now so we have to have this happen. I for one am very happy to have this coming to us in the future and you can count me in on one of these units. PS You had me at 420

http://sasquatchglass.com/poison-coming-bho-closed-loop-extractions-know-youre-smoking/

As I mentioned previously, the EXT420 was configured specifically for the butane extraction market. I don't anticipate marketing the EXT420 for the industrial markets, we have similar products that are used there. We are still trying to determine how we will be marketing the unit. We are working on a brochure that will have a technical and other usage information on it. This application kind of snuck up on us and we are trying to get production and marketing caught up.

Regarding the materials of construction, I have only recently learned that there are concerns with aluminum in the wetted areas. The 59025 has an aluminum end cap and nobody had said anything, so we didn't know there were concerns. At the moment, the EXT420 does have an aluminum end cap. We are looking into replacing it with stainless steel, but it will result in a substantial price increase.

Let me know you thoughts about the aluminum vs stainless steel. There seems to be some disagreement there.

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 5, 2014

Rickys bong said:
Dave, I have to ask about what the upper management of Haskell first thought about making a pump for this industry.

I'm sure there were a ton of "you are shitting me right? seriously?" sort of comments when this was brought up in meetings. Was there much resistance? Any funny stories?

On a different note, when the Haskell was first talked about I looked into the specs and noticed the high ratio of drive to output. Why was the 4:1 ratio chosen? 2:1 would still give enough max. output pressure but save a lot of air consumption.

Good to see you guys taking on the niche. How aggressively will you market this?

Thanks.

RB

As you might imagine, this application did generate a lot of discussion. When I first approached management and told them what was happening, I didn't know what their reaction would be, however, they were fine with it and didn't bat an eye. The biggest discussion came with the model number of the EXT420 (it wasn't my idea, I was telling my son about what was happening and he came up with the model number). When I originally proposed it, I was told no. Then I was discussing it with one of the engineers and we realized that the pump has a ratio of 4:1 and a 20 cubic inch displacement, so I went back to marketing and took that approach with marketing. They still had concerns, but I told marketing that I had floated the model number with people in the extraction industry and they all loved and joked that they won't forget that model number. Marketing then gave us the final go ahead.

Regarding the 2:1 approach, Haskel doesn't have a booster designed with a 2:1 ratio that would be appropriate for the extraction market.

As I mentioned previously, we are still trying to determine how we will be marketing this unit.

Dave

Dave at Haskel · Dec 5, 2014

JColtrane said:
So Dave, are there any questions you have of us??? Is there anything you'd like to know about the process ... I'm kinda guessing you've haven't run to many CLS. Maybe run times, pressures at which we're operating, temps at which we're operating, ect? If you guys are committed to working with our industry, it seems only logical that you are dialed into what/how we're doing things.

I have seen the process run a couple of times and do have a general understanding of what is happening and why it is done the way it is. Although, I will admit that I have a lot more to learn, but I am learning more every day.

I'd be happy to hear about run times and other information, it would definitely help me to have a more complete understanding of the various processes.

Thanks,

Dave

Gray Wolf · Dec 5, 2014

resinryder said:
LOL. You never know how one of the mods around here are gonna take things. Seen some strange things over the years involving a lot less.
Thanks again for bringing Dave into the discussion!!

I believe the Mods see the benefit to ICM to have Dave's attention on this forum.

gholladay · Dec 5, 2014

I know there was talk in an earlier thread about a plumbing modification that could be made to the Haskel 59025 pump to allow it to operate in a parallel configuration instead of series, cutting the pumping rate in half and lowering the required amount of compressed air. This mod would allow two pumps to be run off one 10 HP compressor.

See Photo of the mod here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/124064594@N02/15951728612/

Would this mod still be a viable answer to the 4:1 ratio question?

Gray Wolf · Dec 5, 2014

gholladay said:
I know there was talk in an earlier thread about a plumbing modification that could be made to the Haskel 59025 pump to allow it to operate in a parallel configuration instead of series, cutting the pumping rate in half and lowering the required amount of compressed air. This mod would allow two pumps to be run off one 10 HP compressor.

See Photo of the mod here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/124064594@N02/15951728612/

Would this mod still be a viable answer to the 4:1 ratio question?

That is one way to rig the Haskel for single stage. What it does, is pump in both directions of piston travel.

That means if you make no other changes, the pump will put out around twice as much gas using the same amount of air or the same amount of gas using half as much air.

PS: Sorry Dave, trying to keep the easy ones going until your next visit.

Dave at Haskel · Dec 5, 2014

gholladay said:
I know there was talk in an earlier thread about a plumbing modification that could be made to the Haskel 59025 pump to allow it to operate in a parallel configuration instead of series, cutting the pumping rate in half and lowering the required amount of compressed air. This mod would allow two pumps to be run off one 10 HP compressor.

See Photo of the mod here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/124064594@N02/15951728612/

Would this mod still be a viable answer to the 4:1 ratio question?

The picture you show is how we are configuring the EXT420, as Gray Wolf said, this allows for higher flows, since the gas is only handled once instead of twice, as is done with the 59025. The ratio is something else, the ratio is the difference in area between the drive air piston and the piston that is actually compressing the gas. In the case of a 4:1 ratio pump, the area of the gas piston is 1/4 the area of the air drive piston.

Gray Wolf, thanks for the back-up.

Dave

SkyHighLer · Dec 5, 2014

It would be productive to give Dave at Haskel early pm and editing privileges if possible.

JColtrane · Dec 5, 2014

Agreed

apollojmr · Dec 6, 2014

Rickys bong said:
apollojmr, the article you linked to is absolute BS, full of fabricated info and misinformation. I wish people would stop giving this idiot free advertizing.

You have valid concerns, but Pleeeeeze don't link to this crap even as reference.

I apologize but I needed to make sure he was getting the whole story..I am assuming that the people reading this thread are smart enough to know better. If they are not then shame on them.

icdog · Dec 6, 2014

I would agree that the correct information needs to be addressed. I often get questions about the pumps and most of those questions came from that article and many people don't realize it was bs.

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