Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on

Jbonez · Jan 1, 2013

Docteur said:
Pulling leaves is against the plant evolution.

My money is on the normal plant.

lol.

So topping, supercropping, fimming and bending arent against plant evolution? All commonly accepted ways to train your plant and when we mention one more way its considered blasphemy?

Thats like having an intellectual speed limit, makes no sense...

Docteur · Jan 1, 2013

Jbonez said:
lol.

So topping, supercropping, fimming and bending arent against plant evolution? All commonly accepted ways to train your plant and when we mention one more way its considered blasphemy?

Thats like having an intellectual speed limit, makes no sense...

To me a leaf is there for a reason and that reason is photosynthesis
It has been scientifically proved.

What reason would you pull a leaf from a cannabis plant ? and show me some scientific evidence to back your claim not hearsay nor personnal experience.

Fly by Night · Jan 1, 2013

Vapedg13 knocks down a serious grow...I'm impressed by what I've seen around! I'm guessing that a dense indica likes her fans pulled, whether it's genetic evolution or the hand of god, go ahead rip off some leaf!! Diesels like topping, pinching and bending, there ain't much leaf but larf!

Peace homies

VagPuncher · Jan 1, 2013

The problem many growers face is that they take all the leafs on on one day. You have to do it slowly. A few in veg. Few more in week 1...Let em have some B vit. More in week 2. Few more in week 4...Done.

Doing it all on one day will just shock em.

vertigo0007 · Jan 1, 2013

I think this quote sums it up nicely.....

"Don't put much faith in shit u read , instead put faith in what u learn through practical application." - moonshine

the gnome · Jan 1, 2013

the fact is buds buried under leaves just cannot get the lite the upper parts can

the fact is buds buried under leaves just cannot get the lite the upper parts can

:smoke:

Jbonez · Jan 1, 2013

Docteur said:
To me a leaf is there for a reason and that reason is photosynthesis
It has been scientifically proved.

What reason would you pull a leaf from a cannabis plant ? and show me some scientific evidence to back your claim not hearsay nor personnal experience.

You cant understand from an intellectual perspective, so you cast doubt as an inherent response...

Interesting..

Jbonez · Jan 1, 2013

They say pics tell a thousand words.

Here is what I do in veg.. PULL all major fan leaves, then I continue pulling the top fan leaves to allow the plant to "fill in". Topping merely brings additional grow tips already growing even with the canopy. Defoliating, sparks life into every grow tip that exists on the plant. I pull all the leaves in veg, and have been pulling any leaves with stems after the stretch, nothing comes off the plant until after the stretch, my boy DHF recommended this and its the truth.

ChemD veg (bloom day1)

Same plant in bloom. Im looking at close to 4oz's from what ive seen in the past, and If I do, with enough room to fit 8 around my light, Id say thats close to 2lbs around a single 600w vert.

Lets see you do that Doc. Ya know, its not so much the arrogance, rather the reluctance to accept logic so quickly, you need to work on that..

ChemD bloom (same plant) 45days

the gnome · Jan 1, 2013

nice example jbonz,
how did your Chem D do with out the defo?
or were you already a fan of defo'g

Jbonez · Jan 1, 2013

the gnome said:
nice example jbonz,
how did your Chem D do with out the defo?
or were you already a fan of defo'g

No, this was my first experience.

Proof is in the pudding. Guess Im a leaf puller lol...

The plant would not have had the ability to yield as much, had I not trained by defoliating, this is an objective observation.

Holdin' · Jan 1, 2013

Awesome... this is a great side by side... and even after the results of those grow are noted, it needs to be done more with different strains to get a full consensus. That'll get the defoliation haters to be a little more open minded. NO OFFENSE to anyone with an opposing opinion...

But IMO, defoliation is key to my yields.

I've been a plucker for quite some time... and I can say I've noticed nothing but a positive influence in yield and overall bud density.

Much more larfy bud on the plants with the leaves left on.

And yes, I have had gardens without doing any defolation to compare.

Glad I found this, can't wait to see your results OP. And nice garden!

Edit: I also think growing style plays a part... some may benefit much more from defoliation than others. If you have the luxury of being able to walk a full circle around each of your plants, defoliation may not be quite as beneficial for you. But, like most of us with space restraints (and really, can you ever have too much space?) and thick canopies... it's the way to go. Not only will you increase yield by exposing more budsites, you will also allow more airflow through and under your canopy. And I shouldn't have to explain the benefits and preventative measures that will provide.

VagPuncher said:
The problem many growers face is that they take all the leafs on on one day. You have to do it slowly. A few in veg. Few more in week 1...Let em have some B vit. More in week 2. Few more in week 4...Done.

Doing it all on one day will just shock em.

Exactly.

The only problems I've had have been from pulling to many in veg and shocking the plants. I'd imagine same would hold true in flower, but I've always been more conservative.

Jbonez · Jan 1, 2013

I does shock them in veg, usually because we are pulling everything, and they obviously want as much growth as possible. But this is veg, who cares if they get stunted for a bit, they will take back off..

In bloom, AFTER the stretch, on about 6 strains so far, Ive noticed no stress, from indicas to sativas..

I wouldnt pull anything during the first 4 weeks of bloom period... And honestly, I attribute my results to what I did in veg, not bloom, the budsites are already there, they just need to fatten, veg is where this technique matters the "most".

That chemd has another month, so we will see what she puts off for real when I harvest her..

Otherwise, the evidence is clear imo..

noyd666 · Jan 1, 2013

like my girls stripped,not so much at 3 wks buttt good trial

PeopleWish · Jan 1, 2013

Homie bonez, looking good like always, and im glad that you continually drop knowledge.

Hows the density on that chem for the bottom most bud? Rock hard?

Jbonez · Jan 1, 2013

PeopleWish said:
Homie bonez, looking good like always, and im glad that you continually drop knowledge.

Hows the density on that chem for the bottom most bud? Rock hard?

Same as the top, titanium bro...

Thing is, there is a little less real estate, so the bottom just doesnt have the nug count as the tops, but they are receiving the same amount of light nearly and there is no larf on this plant, all nug..

Wait till she finishes swelling, Ill keep my thread updated, should be good...

Im doing another round, this time with 6 plants that have been defoliated, GSC, 2x chemD, Snowdawg, Indi bubblegum, and Socal Master kush... Im expecting the same results, larger yields.. They are going in next week, along with 91chemdawg and a plant I cant really "talk" about.. call her X.. lol.

Even if I only pull 3oz of the chemD, thats 3lbs per 1200w, easily over a gpw..

the gnome · Jan 1, 2013

Jbonez said:
No, this was my first experience.

Proof is in the pudding. Guess Im a leaf puller lol...

The plant would not have had the ability to yield as much, had I not trained by defoliating, this is an objective observation.

I hear ya on that JB
i started to defo on my 1st gro 2 yrs ago.
i started doing only 1/2 of a plant to see what...
defo'ing gives me better results
even the popcorn was much better on the defo'd side
with no damage to the plant at all.
but i have seen some that really had no effect after being trimmed.
so again, genetics and strains seem to decide the outcome.

Docteur said:
Pulling leaves is against the plant evolution.

now that you mention that doc,
evoulution has condition cannabis to do one ting only, insure survival of the species.
nature and evolution has provided many redundent *back ups* you could say to insure that happens.
by producing thousands of seeds and other things.

but we as indoor growers are going against what time has brought to this rodeo.
we are after potency and maximum buds size, this was never the goal in cannabis's grow book.
just make sure bud gro's and gets seeded... thats it.

so when cannabis is grown for other goals that has nothing to do with what years upon years upon years
of evolution has ingrained into it... some new rules may be applied,
and other aren't needed anymore.

i posted something about defo'ing 8 months ago, a bit long but this seems to be
a good time to repost it

can't fiond it now??
is called
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
and its in the indoor hydro section?

guy fawkes · Jan 1, 2013

nip em, strip em, bend em, clip em.. mary jane loves it rough

PeopleWish · Jan 1, 2013

Jbonez said:
Same as the top, titanium bro...

Thing is, there is a little less real estate, so the bottom just doesnt have the nug count as the tops, but they are receiving the same amount of light nearly and there is no larf on this plant, all nug..

Wait till she finishes swelling, Ill keep my thread updated, should be good...

Im doing another round, this time with 6 plants that have been defoliated, GSC, 2x chemD, Snowdawg, Indi bubblegum, and Socal Master kush... Im expecting the same results, larger yields.. They are going in next week, along with 91chemdawg and a plant I cant really "talk" about.. call her X.. lol.

Even if I only pull 3oz of the chemD, thats 3lbs per 1200w, easily over a gpw..

I have been working for a while to attain the same efficiency as vertical lighting with horizontal. The trick lies in training, defoliation and pruning its the trifecta. Still trying to master this. however i do not think i will ever see the same results horizontally as vertically. :tumbleweed:

sweetestsin420 · Jan 1, 2013

the gnome · Jan 1, 2013

here is what i was looking for on defloliating
i posted this last may

the fact is buds buried under leaves just cannot get the lite the upper parts can.

plants are meant to survive and they will adapt genetically over time to thier surroundings to make the most
of what they have to work with.
just like people, animals and insects.
canabis has evolved over thousands of years to their particular environs from the hot-n-moist lowland columbia jungles
where the famous punta roja *redbud* originated
to the indica hash plants of the lofty hi altitude arid ranges of the Hundu Kush.
BUT!
they all have 2 things in common no matter where they grow and thats the sun/a light source that is constantly moving
AND
the genetic ability to adapt to the conditions under which they grow.

over time their leaves are set in a way to maximize the light they recieve as their lite source tracks across from east to west.
no matter where the sun is at the leaves on some portion of the plant will always recieve direct sunlight throughout the day if not all day long for other parts of the plant.
NOW!
we put them inside with a stationary point of lite(s)
so in order to mimic ideal the natural settings we either have to move the lite source or constantly shuffle plants around,
and how many times have you have had to do that
they don't need shuffling around outside because the sun is moving

so now the lite source being stationary creates a prob in regards to dead spots under the canopy of the upper leaves.
removing those leaves just opens up the lite the sun would have gotten to in a natural setting.

plants have redundant back ups for survival in less than ideal situations.
like producing thousands of seeds to insure the survival of the species!
OR
maybe lots of leaves around the plant in a way as to take optimal advantage of the sun as it tracks across the sky.
think about if we had only a stationary sun.
how and would the leaf structure of canabis plants evolved differently?
I'm sure it would have

removing leaves to adapt and take full advantage of a stationary lite source hasn't slowed the plant down or harm it in any way in my exp. with the strains ive dealt with.
AND.... actually a good trimming benefits the plant as you'll notice a week or 2 after a good defoliating.
IN FACT...
trimming/defoliating is an accepted practice by gardeners and botanists/horticulturists and landscapers to improve many plants and in many ways relating to health and vigor....
to increased productivity,
and cosmetic appeal.

but there are still many that think it couldn't/can't/doesn't/won't work on a plant like canabis?
it is a very adaptable, hardy plant

***of course not all strains may benefit from a good defo and some are best left alone to do their thing***
as I think about it,
we do everything we can to tweak the most from our plants,
from the bulbs
to soils,
nutes, amendments,
additives,
air/Co2... even classical music!
you name it we growers are trying it or have done it or trying to make it better! right?
Its a constant endeavor on our parts
but to those that haven't tried and won't even consider defoliating is akin to
cutting off your nose to spite your face imo.
personally Ive never seen a plant of mine that suffered any ill effects from trimming,
they always do better!

but again,
genetics/strain plays the ultimate role if defoliating is a benefit or detriment __________________

edited on 4/5/14 for:

EShred said:

ya'll keep saying genetics plays a role in how well defoliation works. So can any of throw out some examples of specific genetics that are/aren't compatible with defoliation?

Click to expand...

honestly, Ive never run across a plant that didn't benefit. but I have read peeps defo'ing that have done plants that had a negative effect on the plant,
aside from genetics and their role,
you won't benefit if you only pull 3 leaves or you could seriously injure or stunt growth by pulling too much.

Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on

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