Affordable DIY CO2 Extraction???

SkyHighLer said:

Not an advertisement or anything, I was just cruisin' and noticed this was just posted up at the BVV FB page,

Best Value Vacs
Page Liked · 6 hrs · Edited ·


Updated: This is a 1lb open blast co2 extractor easily expandable to 4lbs with an active recovery option coming soon. This will be butane and c02 compatible were just waiting to test with butane!
I will post more info and videos with explanations about running the system monday!

The price is gonna be 7,500$- $8,200 and will release at the end of January!

https://www.facebook.com/bestvaluev...6861899853805/456659814540678/?type=3&theater

Vote for Bernie!!! Happy New Year!

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You have to give BVV credit for keeping their eye on the ball!

I look forward to seeing how they do!

I'm actually favoring Alfred E Neuman yet again, cause this election is plumb skeery! It isn't freedom of choice, if there are no good choices.

On one end of the scale we have Bernie and other end Trump, so we couldn't be more polarized as a nation!

Gray Wolf said:

You have to give BVV credit for keeping their eye on the ball!

I look forward to seeing how they do!

I'm actually favoring Alfred E Neuman yet again, cause this election is plumb skeery! It isn't freedom of choice, if there are no good choices.

On one end of the scale we have Bernie and other end Trump, so we couldn't be more polarized as a nation!

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An apropos quote from the master, last two paragraphs of the book:

You may very appropriately want to ask me how we are going to resolve the ever-acceleratingly dangerous impasse of world-opposed idealogical dogmas. I answer, it will be resolved by the computer. Man has ever-increasing confidence in the computer; witness his unconcerned landings as air-transport passengers coming in for a landing in the combined invisibility of fog and night. While no politician or political system can ever afford to yield understandably and enthusiastically to their adversaries and opposers, all politicians can and will yield enthusiastically to the computers safe flight-controlling capabilities in bringing all of humanity in for a happy landing.

So, planners, architects, and engineers take the initiative. Go to work, and above all co-operate and don't hold back on one another or try to gain at the expense of another. Any success in such a lopsidedness will be increasingly short-lived. These are the synergetic rules that evolution is employing and trying to make clear to us. They are not man made laws. They are the infinitely accommodative laws of the intellectual integrity-governing universe.

Operating Manual For Spaceship Earth is a short book by R. Buckminster Fuller, first published in 1968, following an address with a similar title given to the 50th annual convention of the American Planners Association in the Shoreham Hotel, Washington D.C., on 16 October 1967.[1]

The book relates Earth to a spaceship flying through space. The spaceship has a finite amount of resources and cannot be resupplied.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Manual_for_Spaceship_Earth

Holy terra firma

Hio Graywolf,

I am a pleb and have been a lurker here on IC for the last year now. A friend and I, both drafters and makers, are really interested in putting together a C02 rig. As it turns out we are river city based as well. Seems like we are bit late to the party though, but perhaps you have some equipment laying around you might be willing to part with? Or some notes you might be willing to let us pour over?

I currently work with a medical farm that is shifting to rec and we are looking at processing options. My grower has little interest in BHO for personal consumption and I have been tasked with searching for/building a machine to extract with SC C02, possibly going as far as loading cartridges for vaping, something I have some experience with already.

This thread has been incredible, we are building a BOM for the project currently and input or direction would be great. Our last batch of outdoor OG tested out at an incredible 27% and I would love to get to play with this material, but co2 is a must before I can get my hands on it.

JDU, I cannot deny that 2.5l is exciting. A scalable unit would be epic. Though I am really Interested in the spirit of the original effort at an affordable unit. there are several setups that offer entry at 3-6k at this point and I am really looking to create something that slides in at under a grand. I am betting a pump assist may affect that estimate some.

Ocolabs gets you up to a 1/4# run for 6k in damn slick package, Again not really looking to go commercial, or retail for someone else's prototype.

Can I ask, JDU are you Jim DUrward of Criticalco2ltd? Or are the initials incredible happenstance? Yeah, thought so, blatant ad is blatant.

OregonRec said:

Hio Graywolf,

I am a pleb and have been a lurker here on IC for the last year now. A friend and I, both drafters and makers, are really interested in putting together a C02 rig. As it turns out we are river city based as well. Seems like we are bit late to the party though, but perhaps you have some equipment laying around you might be willing to part with? Or some notes you might be willing to let us pour over?

I currently work with a medical farm that is shifting to rec and we are looking at processing options. My grower has little interest in BHO for personal consumption and I have been tasked with searching for/building a machine to extract with SC C02, possibly going as far as loading cartridges for vaping, something I have some experience with already.

This thread has been incredible, we are building a BOM for the project currently and input or direction would be great. Our last batch of outdoor OG tested out at an incredible 27% and I would love to get to play with this material, but co2 is a must before I can get my hands on it.

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My experience operating a passive SCFE CO2 extraction system is that they lack the fine control required for bragging rights extractions.

Because heat is used to raise the pressure, the material being extracted is subjected to the full temperature/pressure curve, so lacks the surgeons touch. We got lots of plant wax, not so bad on chlorophyll, but our terpene profile smelled/tasted more like alfalfa hay, than cannabis.

Pumps allow you to immediately go to the desired pressure, and systems with fractionating columns, allow separation of the prime target elements upon decompression.

The equipment that we used for our testing was loaned to us, and we've since returned it, but it is relatively simple to replicate and John'Yar doesn't appear to be offering it anymore, so here is a peeecture of the components.

DW, Thanks again for the past inspirations and taking the time to respond.

I feel like this little doodad changes the game considerably, schoolboy excited here and still digesting what all this means.

4500psi mini compressor for air guns: The Shoebox compressor

Starts at $650 (4CFH) with ferrule fittings and for 1k(8CFH w/ o-rings); both ship with a silicone auto lubrication system which I assume could be serviceable with liquid coconut oil (thanks ocolabs!)

I already know the ferule fittings would be less then ideal with extended use and 4CFH is not a high rating at all; did I calc that as ~1/2lb. flow per hour properly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao7aZe4ZQzo

FREEDOM8 (1k fully featured)
http://shoeboxcompressor.com/images/F8-Handout_lrgZ.jpg

Strangely It looks exactly like an ocolabs setup sans SCF heater and Chamber. I wonder if there is cooperation between them. My jaw dropped after spending a day researching options on pumps and having this fall out.

Clearly Shoebox(arizona) is older than OCOlabs though I cannot seem to find any information linking the two.

Just dumb excited about locating this solution. Still sorting out my understanding of the maths around this. I know the low CFH will provide diminishing returns as the size of the vessel increases.

Am I right that if I wanted a system that used 2lbs of c02 in the chamber it would then take 2 hrs(at least) to properly and safely decompress the processed results in either a vortex seperator or a fractionation column?

This is assuming 1lb. of C02 is ~8.8 cf as a gas, the pump operates at 8 cfH, and pressure needs to be maintained at constant during expansion- similar to ocolabs video, though we closed loop.

bah, my brain has melted. Its friday, time to go spin some fire.

GW, Thanks again for the past inspirations and taking the time to respond.

I feel like this little doodad changes the game considerably, schoolboy excited here and still digesting what all this means.

4500psi mini compressor for air guns: The Shoebox compressor

Starts at $650 (4CFH) with ferrule fittings and for 1k(8CFH w/ o-rings); both ship with a silicone auto lubrication system which I assume could be serviceable with liquid coconut oil (thanks ocolabs!)

I already know the ferule fittings would be less then ideal with extended use and 4CFH is not a high rating at all; did I calc that as ~1/2lb. flow per hour properly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao7aZe4ZQzo

FREEDOM8 (1k fully featured)
http://shoeboxcompressor.com/images/F8-Handout_lrgZ.jpg

Strangely It looks exactly like an ocolabs setup sans SCF heater and Chamber. I wonder if there is cooperation between them. My jaw dropped after spending a day researching options on pumps and having this fall out.

Clearly Shoebox(arizona) is older than OCOlabs though I cannot seem to find any information linking the two.

Just dumb excited about locating this solution. Still sorting out my understanding of the maths around this. I know the low CFH will provide diminishing returns as the size of the vessel increases.

Am I right that if I wanted a system that used 2lbs of c02 in the chamber it would then take 2 hrs(at least) to properly and safely decompress the processed results in either a vortex seperator or a fractionation column?

This is assuming 1lb. of C02 is ~8.8 cf as a gas, the pump operates at 8 cfH, and pressure needs to be maintained at constant during expansion- similar to ocolabs video, though we closed loop.

bah, my brain has melted. Its friday, time to go spin some fire.

The folks at Eden Labs are recommending about 60 volumes for good extraction. If you could compress it in a separate tank and then feed it through the material column, the speed to pressure would ostensibly be less of an issue.

@GW, pre-pressurizing a tank, I like this idea quite a bit. At this point we are looking at custom fab of 3 vessels. We have access to a machine shop at a family discount, my home-owners father-in-law is a retired weaponsmith and machinist. There are also burners and manufacturers In Oregon that are friendly to trade work.

Thanks to applied science on youtube, I know what a prepresurrization tank can look like. He uses some pipe and nipples right off mcmastercarr for his pre-stage. as well as his videos discuss a lot about SCFE on a homescale operation. I also really dig his use of Dry ice as a C02 source.

https://www.youtube.com/user/bkraz333/search?query=c02

I have a pretty clear picture of what I want our tanks to look like. Instead of a scuba tank (craigslist is only turning up 3500 psi tanks anyway) design a bolt together PV of sufficient strength (have simulators for this and access to a blast proof chemical shed for testing)

Tank one: 5kpsi operating range, 10k topout for safety
tank two: ~3-3.5k psi extraction tank
tank 3: holding tank

Will this be done tomorrow? Probably not, but I will have some drawings to share soon. Yay solidworks.




@JDU I will not waste breath arguing with you. You fully admit you are here to sell your product, Which I do not feel falls under the category of affordable or diy. Especially since you are 3 times more expensive than Jyndustries was. Neither do I feel you are forth coming about your association with criciticalc02ltd as your profile is devoid of information. Though your lack of posts and immediate redirect to a product give you away like a telemarketer calling during dinner.

If you are not just repping and slinging your own product, are you encouraging industrial espionage? In fact, given that this thread is specifically for affordable and DIY, I will assume you intended your post to bring attention to your product as a source of inspiration and not as consideration for purchase, for which I applaud you.

Keeping in line with telemarketing and as-seen-on-tv, the front page of your website has a generic claim from a doctor. Which reads like a submission to penthouse, name withheld, location withheld.

Options for under 6k:

1. Ocolabs

2. Recreate/synthesize the jyndustries setup (add a pump)

3. Criticalc02ltd, probably should add a pump.

4. Recreate things based off the work of Ben from Applied science on youtube.

A 5th possiblity: Getting Bragging rights concentrate off the concepts laid out by GW and the rest of the community by adding a pump.

organizing some thoughts:

pressure vessel calculations
http://www.engineersedge.com/pressure_vessels_menu.shtml
A close look at ben krasnows excellent work at applied science:
http://benkrasnow.blogspot.com/2011/09/close-look-at-supercritical-carbon.html

SHELL: suitable rating steel pipe - sourcing this as "affordable" might be difficult. In the design of the vessel the diameter and the thickness are proportional and MAWP is inverse. Pricing A long small diameter pipe will be cheaper than short thick wall pipe (xs-xxh rating for pressure rating).

which leaves designing and machining a flat cap/plate with o-ring rabbits. cabinetry and machining vocabulary are still fighting for dominance in my vernacular here.

plate calculation from applied science:
http://www.efunda.com/formulae/solid_mechanics/plates/calculators/cpS_PUniform.cfm#Results

An mit worksheet that covers pressures experienced in a bolt clamped vessel:

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/material...chanics-of-materials-fall-1999/modules/pv.pdf

A strange chinese bike pump for airguns.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-310bar-High-Pressure-PCP-Air_60145820091.html

OregonRec said:

@GW, pre-pressurizing a tank, I like this idea quite a bit. At this point we are looking at custom fab of 3 vessels. We have access to a machine shop at a family discount, my home-owners father-in-law is a retired weaponsmith and machinist. There are also burners and manufacturers In Oregon that are friendly to trade work.

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My simple minded design was to take a piece of 304/316SS heavy wall mechanical tubing, and bore the ID's to precision, far enough down to insert plumbed pistons in the ends, using PTFE O-rings.

You can stick the assembly inside a frame that prevents the piston from being blown out, or use other locking methods.

JohnYar used a cross pin for his simple minded approach, and I note Eden Labs now uses a tapered piston, with a locking ring that they set with a dead hammer, to prevent blowout.

JDU said:

This is from the website faq:

How much CO2 does it take for each gram of extract?

Depending on which extraction method is used, reports range from 1/4lb. to >10lbs per extract gram. "Dynamic" recyclers (think pumps and heat exchangers) use large volumes of CO2 (the same CO2 used over and over) and any particular volume of CO2 never stays in contact with the material long enough to become highly saturated by the target compound(s). In a "Static" system (Critical CO2 systems are Static systems) the material "soaks" in a particular CO2 volume for a "soak period", often hours, and the saturation of the CO2 by the target compound(s) reaches much higher levels. To understand the difference between static and dynamic methods, it may be helpful to visualize a sugar cube attached to a thread suspended in a glass full of still, warm water. Say that it takes 10 minutes for the cube to fully dissolve (the "static" method). Now take another sugar cube and run warm water over it until it dissolves. Say it takes only 1 minute to dissolve the cube in the warm flowing water, but enough warm water has flowed over it to fill 10 glasses (the "dynamic" method). The dynamic operator would say it took ten glasses of water to dissolve the cube and the static operator would argue it took only one. Both are correct but there are significantly different economic implications for each operator.

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When we combine a solvent and a solute, the molecules of the solute start to combine with the solvent, so that soon there is no longer 100% solvent and 100% pure solute at the interface.

As the interface becomes closer to the saturation point, the rate at which the solute is being dissolved tails off on a curve, until the desolution rate grinds to a halt.

That enriched layer is typically referred to as the boundary layer, and you can still have 100% solvent on one side and 100 solute on the other, but nothing happening.

If you continually keep that boundary layer removed by flow or agitation, the rate of dissolving is significantly higher. We typically used flow, agitation, or vibration/ultrasonics, to accomplish that end in industry. If you don't have one, you can try another.

CO2 is a very small molecule, so it takes more to handle up through about C-10 through ~30 cannabis essential oil molecules.

While the math counting moles adds up on how much solute a given volume/weight of SCFE CO2 can hold at saturation, consider the time curve and how much slower the process gets toward the end if you are saturating a fixed amount, rather than using fresh solvent.

I certainly understand the difference between the budgets of poor boys and rich boys, but my experience thus far is that SCFE CO2 is not a poor boys sport, if you covet high quality at any volume.

That doesn't mean a resourceful poor boy can't build their own, but having grown up a poor boy, and even in my dotage not being a rich boy, I encourage them to first experiment with passive SCFE CO2 as inexpensively as possible, before investing their precious hard earned cash on something that may be a disappointment to them.

That doesn't mean there aren't other ways to supply more volume and boundary layer removal without a large expensive pump, and that is the direction I suggest exploring with limited funds and readily available mechanical resources.

Gray Wolf said:

When we combine a solvent and a solute, the molecules of the solute start to combine with the solvent, so that soon there is no longer 100% solvent and 100% pure solute at the interface.

As the interface becomes closer to the saturation point, the rate at which the solute is being dissolved tails off on a curve, until the desolution rate grinds to a halt.

That enriched layer is typically referred to as the boundary layer, and you can still have 100% solvent on one side and 100 solute on the other, but nothing happening.

If you continually keep that boundary layer removed by flow or agitation, the rate of dissolving is significantly higher. We typically used flow, agitation, or vibration/ultrasonics, to accomplish that end in industry. If you don't have one, you can try another.

CO2 is a very small molecule, so it takes more to handle up through about C-10 through ~30 cannabis essential oil molecules.

While the math counting moles adds up on how much solute a given volume/weight of SCFE CO2 can hold at saturation, consider the time curve and how much slower the process gets toward the end if you are saturating a fixed amount, rather than using fresh solvent.

I certainly understand the difference between the budgets of poor boys and rich boys, but my experience thus far is that SCFE CO2 is not a poor boys sport, if you covet high quality at any volume.

That doesn't mean a resourceful poor boy can't build their own, but having grown up a poor boy, and even in my dotage not being a rich boy, I encourage them to first experiment with passive SCFE CO2 as inexpensively as possible, before investing their precious hard earned cash on something that may be a disappointment to them.

That doesn't mean there aren't other ways to supply more volume and boundary layer removal without a large expensive pump, and that is the direction I suggest exploring with limited funds and readily available mechanical resources.

Click to expand...

Gray Wolf, take a look at that. Tell me what you think )
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7369777&postcount=13

If you can't get enough solvent (co2) you can modify it with a co solvents and increase the loading rate. You can wet your material with alcohol then blast it with Co2 from a cylinder. Boost the pressure beyond 1050 psi then release the pressure slowly. You will get dark oil but the yeild shouldn't disappointed.

The biggest obstacle for a cheap Co2 extraction equipment is the starting the extraction from Co2 gas cylinders instead of a Liquid Co2 vacuum insulated tank. This forces the extraction process to condense liquid then boost the pressure to supercritical. That is alot of wasted energy and becomes the achilles hell of the machine.