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Night or Day?

jagdog3

Member
Was going to finish digging some holes today at a new spot i found during turkey season...Was walking an old logging road and about 50 yards from where i cut off the trail i come up on a FUCKING HUGE TIMBER RATTLESNAKE...The son of a bitch was almost as big around as my forearm,laying coiled up right in the logging road..Never freakin rattled.Two or three steps more and it would been ugly.Lucky i saw the fucker.I usually do everything at night after i get everything planted,now this happens.Do alot of u guys check and water your plants in the day time?I've always been paranoid about being in my patches in the daytime..If it had been night i would have surely walked right on top him..
 

D.S. Toker. MD

Active member
Veteran
I have snakes too jagdog.

I go at night. Snakes get pretty lethargic at night wnen temps drop and they look for warm rocks to lie on. I used to hunt rattlers and copperheads to sell when i was younger. I sold them to a trader who sold them to research labs,universities. I would take pieces of tin and lay them out to heat in the day time sun and then during the night snakes would crawl under them. The next morning i bagged the bounty.

They dont rattle at night when its cool but theyre hesitant to strike as well. They would prefer to lay still and hope you'll pass without notice. I dont worry at night. Several times with snake boots on, ive come across timber rattlers and copperheads in the dark and have put my boot all around them. Their head would follow the boot but as long as i didnt touch or threaten him, he made no effort to strike even when my foot was within inches of their face..

Daytime is different and growers around here can create a real problem in that they will go into a rough, grown up area and clear out a sunny spot for their plants, which results in every snake within 500 ft laying in your patch sunning. I avoid late mornings afer theyve warmed and are active.

A shedding snake is dangerous. He's blind and will stike at any noise but again at night they lay still. The quickest way to get bitten is to sneak and tiptoe. Make sure they know youre commming their way because they dont respond well to suprise.

Generally they dont have any desire to bite you and would prefer to remain hidden.
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
check this out

THE DOCTOR'S WORLD; NEW SHOCK THERAPY FOR SNAKEBITES
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN, M.D.
Published: August 5, 1986

A CHAT in a London laboratory between an American missionary physician who practices in the Amazon and two tropical disease experts has led to a new electric shock therapy that saves the lives of snakebite victims but that defies scientific explanation.

The treatment is delivered through modifications of what are popularly known as stun guns. It comes in the form of four or five high-voltage, low-current electric shocks. Each is painful and lasts one to two seconds. The shocks are given about five to ten seconds apart and are applied as close as possible to the site of the bites of snakes and such venomous insects as scorpions and ants.

In 34 cases where there was evidence of venomous bites that had penetrated the skin of limbs, the current was applied within about a half hour. None of the usual serious medical complications developed and none of the patients died, the researchers said in a report on what could become a revolutionary treatment. Also, the pain of the poisonous bites disappeared within 15 minutes, according to the report in the July 26 issue of The Lancet, a leading medical journal published in London.

The missionary physician and the tropical disease experts reported on treatment of the 34 patients in Ecuador. The patients did not receive the usual antivenom therapy for snakebites, one of the authors of the report said in an interview.

Venoms can produce damage very quickly. Seven bite victims who refused the electric shock therapy suffered complications such as swelling, bleeding, shock and kidney failure. Two needed life-saving amputations.

Although the biting snake could not be identified in all 41 cases, the authors believed that most bites were by small pit vipers similar to the water moccasin and copperhead of North America. Bites by such snakes tend to cause destruction of tissue in the area surrounding the bite, leading to the loss of a finger or part of limb. Larger snakes in the Amazon area can be even more dangerous, but more research is needed to determine if the jolts of electricity will work against venoms that damage the central nervous system.

Most astonishing to the authors was that the jolts of electricity were successful even after serious symptoms had already developed. Two additional patients suffered intense pain and swollen limbs from viper bites. Although they were not treated with electric shocks until two hours after the bites, they were relieved of pain within 30 minutes. Their symptoms did not progress, and both recovered with no serious lasting damage.

''We don't understand that and it is very hard to come up with a good scientific hypothesis to account for the change,'' said one of the authors, Dr. Jeffrey F. Williams, an expert in tropical diseases at Michigan State University in East Lansing.

Although other physicians said they would consider the treatment experimental until confirmatory reports were published, doctors in three other countries have used it successfully, according to the Lancet report.

The technique's greatest potential is in snake-infested areas with limited health care facilities. In eastern Amazon jungles of Ecuador, according to an earlier report, 4 percent of deaths are caused by snakebites, and half the men of the Waoroni tribe suffered more than one snake bite.

Because the shock treatment can be applied with electricity generated by such simple devices as outboard motors and power lawn mowers, reports of the therapy have brought inquiries from American military officials and oil company executives who see the potential of including stun guns in first-aid kits for troops and workers in snake-infested jungles and tropical rain forests.

Beyond the natural role of electricity in governing the rhythm of the heart and nervous system activity, doctors have been harnessing electricity to play an increasing role in the practice of medicine. They have long used electrocardiograms and brain wave tests called electroencephalograms and other tests to diagnose ailments.

In treatment, doctors have little difficulty understanding why jolts of electricity can be effective in resuscitation efforts and in converting abnormal heart rhythms to normal ones. Yet doctors have no explanation for the relief that electroshock therapy can bring many depressed and mentally disturbed patients.
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
another one.

Another reason I carry a stun gun in our emergency kits.

Actually tried this on a small boy who was bitten on the hand by a rattlesnake in 1992. At the time of treatment his hand looked like it was going to pop like a ballon. The results were good, no infection resulted and no long term tissue damaged was every noticed. He was treated with the stun gun before a 46 mile drive to the nearest hospital. There is however no way to tell just how much venom and the concentration of venom that was injected during the bite other than he had some venom injected due to the massive swelling. He was treated several times enroute to the hospital and the ER doctor thought we were all nuts at the time that I told him what we had used to treat him. Later I showed him a article that had been published in a medical journal and he changed his opinion about us and said he had never heard of it before.
http://www.industryinet.com/~ruby/snakebitecure.html

A SHOCK CURE
for Snakebite
The first part of the article tells several stories of cases where high voltage DC was used to treat snakebites.

In the first case, Dr. Daryl Neans, a veterinarian of Pflugerville, Texas, tells the story of a rancher who brought in a dog that was bitten on the face by a rattlesnake 30 minutes earlier. The dog's face had started swelling and because Dr. Neans had previously read an OUTDOOR LIFE article about the treatment, he connected a wire to one of the spark plug wires of his truck then grounded another one to the frame and used the two wires to shock the "dog's face half a dozen times around the bites." The treatment seemed to relieve the dog's pain, but "for insurance, Dr. Neans had followed the shock treatment with the usual cortisone, antibiotics, and tetanus antitoxin, but he's convinced that the shock had already effected the cure." The article explains why Dr. Neans believes in the cure: "Body tissue is negatively charged, snake venom is slightly positive, and unlike charges attract. If ionization of the venom molecules is altered by electrical shock, he reasoned, perhaps they can't attach themselves to animal tissue and destroy it."

Dr. Markus Kryger had read about the treatment in a medical journal when he opted to use it on courthouse employee in southwestern Missouri who was bitten by a copperhead just outside the courthouse. He used jumper cables attached to the spark coil of his car to treat the wound after giving the woman a tetanus shot and disinfecting the bite. "Within the hour, the puzzled patient was back at work." Dr. Kryger became convinced that electrical shock could deactivate snake venom because of the chemistry of the poison. Besides proteins and enzymes, venom contains copper and other trace metals whose electrical properties could be easily upset by high-voltage shock, thereby possibly uncoupling what makes the venom work.

Dr. Ronald Guderian is a missionary doctor from Seattle who is given credit for being the first to use high voltage DC to treat snakebite. He has "successfully treated more than 60 cases in the Esmeraldas Province of Ecuador." Based on Dr. Guderian's experience it seems that if the treatment is received within 15 to 20 minutes after the bite has been inflicted then the pain stops almost immediately and no swelling will occur. If swelling has already started, then it stops and the pain soon subsides. Dr. Guderian typically uses a Nova Technologies stun gun with one of the electrodes modified so that the current can be passed directly through the limb by placing an electrode on each side. "All of the successful treatments have been performed with 20,000 to 25,000 volts or more." It has to be DC voltage, too.

The article expresses a concern that someone with a pacemaker might be killed if they were shocked with the voltage from an ignition system. The frequency and duration of the pulses of an ignition system, it is feared, might scramble a pacemaker. "The only medically tested shocking device that is safe for almost all people, including those with heart pacemakers, is the Stun Gun, made by Nova Technologies (2207 Braker Lane, Austin, TX 78758, 512-832-5591)."

"NO ONE HAS EVER USED ELECTRIC SHOCK TO TREAT SNAKEBITE INFLICTED BY SNAKES WHOSE VENOM ATTACKS THE NERVOUS SYSTEM." (ex. cobra) "The only venomous snake of this kind in the United States is the coral snake." The article warns that the high voltage DC shock would not be effective against the neurotoxins in the venom of snakes such as the cobra and coral snakes. Dr. Guderian's success has been with using the Stun Gun made by Nova Technologies. The FDA won't let Nova advertise the stun gun as a treatment against snakebite until further testing has been achieved. There has been some trouble with reproducing the effect of the treatment in the laboratory. It has been proposed that the reason that the treatment has not worked in the laboratory is because those who were doing the testing were using one of the many imitation stun guns imported to the US from Taiwan or South Korea. Another factor in why the treatment does not work in the laboratory is that, in the laboratory, it is tested on small animals.

In the words of Dr. Guderian, "Think about it. Snake venom evolved for the purpose of quickly killing prey. Humans are not snake prey: we just get in the way some times. There may be biological differences causing small animals to be more susceptible than humans to venom. Or it may just be a matter of our much larger size. ....When a small animal is snakebitten, all of it's biological systems shut down so fast that nothing can be done to stop it. When a human is bitten, he has a local reaction, followed by pain, swelling, and possible death perhaps 24 hours later."

The Japanese have reported to Dr. Guderian "that his shock treatment works on people bitten by their venomous snakes." He has also received letters telling of success stories in Peru, Columbia, Argentina, New Guinea and Africa. As an explanation for why the treatment works, the article cites a Texas chemist who suspects that electro-phoresis is taking place. In electro-phoresis, a high DC voltage is applied to a substance to dissociate the compounds in that substance. "Snake venom is a complex combination of proteins, enzymes (which are proteins with biological activity) and metal ions.... The positively charged proteins travel toward the negative terminal, and the negatively charged proteins migrate toward the positive connection.... The chemist suggested that high-voltage shock would cause enough separation to render the venom inactive."

This second part of the article opens by describing the experience of Jim Scroggins, vice-president of Nova Technologies, when he took a trip to Ecuador for the purpose of verifying the incredible claims being made by Dr. Ronald Guderian in regards to the ability of the Nova Stun Gun to treat snakebite. On a hike through the jungle to visit an indian village, Jim was bitten on the arm by a conga ant. The conga ant's "venom can cause a limb to swell so badly that it can't be used for days." Jim claimed the bite felt like "five wasp stings in the same spot." He shocked the wound with a stun gun and "within 30 to 60 seconds the pain was gone." Even though conga ant bites are supposed to swell the whole limb, Jim had no swelling, only a discolored area the diameter of a baseball. Dr. Guderian began the high voltage DC shock treatment, not on snakebites, but originally on stings and bites from scorpions, ants, bees, wasps, and other kinds of insects.

In the beginning he used the ignition systems of outboard motors and chainsaws to treat the stings, but he later was sent a portable, battery powered "buzzer-and-coil" setup from a friend in Indiana. Later on the same friend sent him several Stun Guns to try out. While Jim Scroggins was in Ecuador, a girl was stung on the toe by a scorpion and given the shock treatment with a stun gun. After a few minutes the pain was gone and the girl left the emergency room. After Scroggins got home from his trip to Ecuador, his wife was working in the yard when she was bitten on the hand by four fire ants. "Donna starts getting a reaction to just one fire-ant bite in about five minutes. Then, she goes into anaphylactic shock and can't breathe." In the rush to go to the hospital, the Scroggins took time to treat the hand with "two quick half-second zaps" from a Nova Technologies Stun Gun. On the way to the hospital, the pain had stopped, so they turned around and went home. "There was little or no swelling, perhaps one third of what she usually gets from a single bite."

Dr. Guderian has found out through various sources that shocks have been used to treat scorpion stings for years in places like India. 40 years ago, people in *****ia who were stung by scorpions were commonly shocked with the ignition system of a motorcycle. High voltage DC can be used to treat other things as well. While in the city of Esmeraldas, Dr. Guderian had the opportunity to treat a child who had been stung on the back by a stingray. He used a wire connected to an automobile's ignition coil and 20 minutes after the treatment the child was back in the water again playing as if nothing had happened.

A Dr. Stoddard, talked to by OUTDOOR LIFE, points out that bacteria, like venom, is largely protein. So are viruses. In Europe, acne is being treated with electricity. Dr. Guderian has treated boils with high voltage DC. According to him, if a boil is treated before it comes to a head, the swelling and reddness will be gone in three to four days. Dr. Stoddard even suggests that in the future rabies may be treated with electric shock. Dr. Guderian is amazed at how well the shock treatment works to relieve pain. He suspects that the pain deactivation process is separate from the deactivation of the poison. The article tells the story of a Texas woman who suffers from severe migraine headaches and voluteered to be treated with a stun gun. She was shocked on the back of the neck and once on each side. The pain went away, but in the morning it was back, only this time much weaker. The process was repeated again and the pain totally vanished. It is proposed in the article that, "the same high voltage shock that upsets the electrical charge of venom proteins may upset the charges in body proteins that signal pain to our brains."
 
Yesterday i did almost got bitten by a viper, i was on a check route to my plants and when i was using my hand in the long grass to check my darlings i sudden heard a "Sssschhh" and i looked down and saw the 1,2 meter long viper make a attack against my hand. But i was lucky to be fast enough so a little tips to avoid being bitten in the lower regions is to always wear rubberboots and strong thick pants, snakes cant bite through rubberboots. But the good thing is the place i grow is "Known" to be a snake infested area so people stay away from it and my plants have a naturel guard against rabbits and people, just make some noise when you enter places who are known to have snakes and they crawl away when you come. And my experience are that when i come at night i usually never see any snakes but daytime is a another story. Good luck to ya. . .
 

Claude Hopper

Old Skool Rulz
Veteran
I've got timber rattlers in the uplands and massasaugas in the bottoms. I hunt morels and seem to run accross a snake every couple of years.

Do alot of u guys check and water your plants in the day time?I've always been paranoid about being in my patches in the daytime.

I only go in daylight. Night time attracts too much attention. You are much more visible running around with a flashlight or infrared night vision. Its riskier driving to a site at night as police are far more likely to pull you over. There are also fewer legitimate reasons to be out in the woods at night.
 

Ajunta Pall

Member
Dont drop your guard at night. Regardless of what others have posted rattlesnakes are active at night. Perhaps in the fall and early spring the snakes may get lethargic when night time temps drop to the 50s or lower. But in summer when night time temps can be in the 80s and 70s expect them to be out preying on mice, rats, and other nocturnal rodents.
 

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