Skunkman Sam's Secret Dry Sift 2009

Im not impressed either.

1% yield? I dont care how good it is... the yield makes it too expensive to be worth it, I remember reading theres actually a way to turn "x" material into gold but the process or energy used is so expensive as to render it impractical, someting similar happens with this "full melt dry sift" other than putting skunkman sam up top by developing a technique/process to get it its useless...

Altough I concede its quite funny how so many people fret about this "secret".

ganja din,

Lovin' it! Since graduating(bs in bio and chem) I have lost access to the library's intranet search features...once you post the article I'd love to read it!

Yeah Ganja Din... to me that is old.. in the name of science it is OLD...
Science Moves fast....

and yes i have seen the method.. and never seen it produce fullmelt.. that is why i asked you if you had actualy made some pure resin heads with this method ... or if you were just postulating.
I see now that you were postulating.. i hope it works out... would love to discover some new methods for extracting the goodness.Just cause i havent seen it.. certainly doesnt mean it doesnt exist
THe method i mentioned using the plastic beads was not a paper.. its a unit a saw years ago.. that was very much like an ultra sonic jewellery cleaner.. only instead of a liquid that cavitates better than water.. they used a dry method... that was filled with plastic balls... trying to find the unit online but can't.../
however in my research.. i found some other toys...

http://www.chitraengineers.com/chitra-vibro-sifter.html could do something with one of those im sure ^^...

and oh man could one have fun with one of these.. with a few minor changes... adding 140u.. down to 3u... and i think we could have some real hash making seshions with this badboy...

Then we have the standard gyratory vibrating screens...

http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/equipment/screeners/roundgyratory.php

as well as laboratory screeners http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/equipment/screeners/labscreeners.php

which of course can both be used in conjuction with ultra sonics..

http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/equipment/screeners/ultrasonic.php

and with all that said.. i can honestly say i doubt sam is using anything along these lines... but only he can say...

I am still in the dark as much as any of you... thus the discussion...

I am eager to see methods that people have tried... idea's are awesome... but someone has to run with them.. and TRY IT...

now lets see how much i have in my checking account.... for some of these clevelandvibrator toys

peace
Bubble man

Ps hashiroo i can only say this... the 1% does not make it to expensive... PROHIBITION makes it to expensive... remember the price of herb.. is very inflated by prohibition.. if you were allowed to grow herb legally without worry of the MAN.... i am guessing herb would sell/cost around the price of tomatoes... well worth the price of the 1%...

My two cents.

Sam's Sifted Hash

Sam's Sifted Hash

bubbleman said:

Yeah Ganja Din... to me that is old.. in the name of science it is OLD...
Science Moves fast....

and yes i have seen the method.. and never seen it produce fullmelt.. that is why i asked you if you had actualy made some pure resin heads with this method ... or if you were just postulating.
I see now that you were postulating.. i hope it works out... would love to discover some new methods for extracting the goodness.Just cause i havent seen it.. certainly doesnt mean it doesnt exist
THe method i mentioned using the plastic beads was not a paper.. its a unit a saw years ago.. that was very much like an ultra sonic jewellery cleaner.. only instead of a liquid that cavitates better than water.. they used a dry method... that was filled with plastic balls... trying to find the unit online but can't.../
however in my research.. i found some other toys...

http://www.chitraengineers.com/chitra-vibro-sifter.html could do something with one of those im sure ^^...

and oh man could one have fun with one of these.. with a few minor changes... adding 140u.. down to 3u... and i think we could have some real hash making seshions with this badboy...

Then we have the standard gyratory vibrating screens...

http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/equipment/screeners/roundgyratory.php

as well as laboratory screeners http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/equipment/screeners/labscreeners.php

which of course can both be used in conjuction with ultra sonics..

http://www.clevelandvibrator.com/equipment/screeners/ultrasonic.php

and with all that said.. i can honestly say i doubt sam is using anything along these lines... but only he can say...

I am still in the dark as much as any of you... thus the discussion...

I am eager to see methods that people have tried... idea's are awesome... but someone has to run with them.. and TRY IT...

now lets see how much i have in my checking account.... for some of these clevelandvibrator toys

peace
Bubble man

Ps hashiroo i can only say this... the 1% does not make it to expensive... PROHIBITION makes it to expensive... remember the price of herb.. is very inflated by prohibition.. if you were allowed to grow herb legally without worry of the MAN.... i am guessing herb would sell/cost around the price of tomatoes... well worth the price of the 1%...

My two cents.

Click to expand...

Once again Bubbleman nice Macro Photos of Sam's Dry Sifted Resin powder.

For Sam's 1%, I think this only has to do with is Farmers Grade Kief that he uses to clean up. I am sure he got more from the Sleestack? Maybe he will chime in?

Also for buying any expensive equiptment, I am sure that he does not use any. I am pretty sure Static has something to do with it also. It seems like a very simple method, that somebody just needs to "play" around with the resin enough and they will learn "the secret".

Aqua Lab Tech

Agreed ^^


Bubble man

great thread, ill have to backtrack and read more. just thought id share this pic of a sleestack nug from grey area, may 09.

]


.. gonna read on, i just happened to remember that nug from this spring.

peace all

I am amazed at those pictures Bubbleman! that resin is sooooo incredibly clean.... and those pics are beautiful.... thanks for sharing...how was the flavor? how did you heat it? peace

Hey BM,

Science does change but it doesn't mean older studies are invalid, not in the least. In fact, I have read other papers which used the glass bead method...

I am postulating yes, but the method works and has been proven valid many times in different studies. Although, if Sam's method never uses a liquid then he would not be using the exact method in that paper. I tweaked the glass bead method to hopefully produce dry sift like Sam's.

It turns out the glass bead method[1] uses a viscous aqueous solution (complex isolation media). However, the isolation media seems only used to 'cushion' the impact of glass beads and walls of container against the cannabis. The researchers used a cell disruptor machine, a fancy horizontal rotary shaker. Thus the isolation media prevents too much abrasion which would yield more plant matter. Then the isolation media is diluted and filtered through progressively smaller screens, finally collecting filtrate from a 20 micron screen. At that point the researcher studied the trich heads.


That study gives me two ideas:



A) Make 'Wet Glass Caviar':

1. Use very cold water as isolation media and use large volume of glass beads while slowing the shaking of sample. Maybe shake by hand (see the dry method) for 10 or so shake in a cold thermos with a larger volume of glass beads. Cannabis is prefrozen/thawed (see the dry method) before being mixed with water.

2. Filter extract through screens like bublebag method.

3. Use a small final screen, maybe 10-15 micron. What is the average size of trich heads? (I spent a while researching and only found reference to 20 micron). Collect the filtrate, not what's on top of the screen.

4. Use an aspirator and gauge using water as the "working liquid" to create partial vacuum low enough to lower the bp (boiling point) of water to room temp 68'F to say 80'F. Thus the water boils off under partial vacuum at room temp.

5. Operate aspirator until water is boiled off and one should have pure, clean and dry trich heads in the vacuum chamber.

All the equipment to do that (^^^) would be cost of screens, aspirator and gauge (~$75-150), vacuum chamber ($20), other parts ($50).



B) Make 'Dry Glass Caviar':


1. Work under yellow light.

2. Freshly harvest cannabis flowers and trim of all leaf, yes all! Cut branches so cannabis buds are manageable sizes like 4-6 inches.

3. Place in freezer bag and put in freezer at -18'C (0'F) until totally frozen.

4. Remove cannabis and allow to trichomes to thaw, not the whole bud. Maybe a couple of hours(?)

5. Place back in freezer until frozen.

6. Remove and thaw trichomes again.

7. Repeat the freeze/thaw for 10 sessions. This is a poor mans cellular disruptor, but works quite well. It should make the breaking off of the heads from stalks easier.

8. Place large thermos with flat glass interior (or other container of glass or metal) into freezer. It shouldn't have a lip at the mouth.

9. Place a handful of glass beads in freezer.

10. Once the thermos and beads are cold place 5-10% frozen whole cannabis nugs (by volume to thermos) into the thermos. Place a few glass beads in thermos.

11. Shake lightly for 5-10 shakes

12. Open thermos and pull out nugs with forceps. Lightly shake/tap nugs over a screen. Normal sizes should be fine, eg. 220 micron.

13. Open thermos and pull out beads with forceps. Lightly shake/tap beads over the same screen.

14. Empty thermos onto screen, turn upside down and tap bottom.

15. Lightly sift as normal, but short time, maybe 5-10 second. Screen below would be around 105 micron.

16. Again lightly sift 105 micron screen for a few seconds. Screen below could be 20 micron.

17. Once again lightly sift 20 micron screen for a few seconds. Screen below should be small enough filter trich heads, maybe 5-10 microns(?).

18. Sift final 5-10 micron screen.

19. Allow to dry. Ideally in darkness under carbon dioxide or nitrogen (easy to do).

20. Cross fingers and hope for the best!


My 2 cents without any testing yet.


I agree testing is needed, but one must do ones due diligence in terms of background research first. That is the stage I am currently working within.


I uploaded many studies today. These studies are where I got my info.

Download URL:
http://www.filedropper.com/glasscaviar

Here is a list of journal articles I uploaded to filedropper:

-The glass bead method. I am trying to modify it to make dry sift isolation of trich heads, similar to Sam's secret. Well see...:

[1] "Isolation of Secretory Cells from Plant Glandular Trichomes and Their Use in Biosynthetic Studies of Monoterpenes and Other Gland Products"
Author(s): Jonathan Gershenzon, David McCaskill, Jean I. M. Rajaonarivony, Charles Mihaliak, Frank Karp, and Rodney Croteau’


-Another option for isolation of trich heads:

"Isolation and Purification of Glandular Secretory Cells From Artemisia Tridentata by Percoll Density Gradient Centrifugation"
Author(s): J. HENRYSL ONAEN DR ICK G. KELSE


-Various on topic journal articles which provide background and valuable information.

"Secreting Glandular Trichomes: More than Just Hairs"
Author(s): George J. Wagner

"New Approaches for Studying and Exploiting an Old Protuberance, the Plant Trichome"
Author(s): G. J. WAGNER, E. WANG and R. W. SHEPHERD


-The researchers in this study used the glass bead method (Gershenzon, et al., 1992):

"Morphology and monoterpene biosynthetic capabilities of secretory cell clusters isolated from glandular trichomes of peppermint (Mentha piperita L.)"
Author(s): David McCaskill, Jonathan Gershenzon, and Rodney Croteau





And finally, here is a more current paper which overviews older methods of trich head isolation (like glass bead method), along with new, and very expensive methods (ex. lazers):

"Developmental Regulation of Monoterpene Biosynthesis in the Glandular Trichomes of Peppermint"
Author(s): Marie E. McConkey, Jonathan Gershenzon, and Rodney B. Croteau
(Full text pdf) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC58860/pdf/pp000215.pdf

Size of glass beads around 0.5 mm is good.

nice pics as always bubbleman.. thanks for sharin..

If i get this right , the size of the void within loosely packed sherical glass beads is determined by the bead size , chooseing the correct one will selectively remove a narrow band of particle size.

300 - 500 micron for a 15 - 25 micron trichome , probably a formula to predict.

So this is done wet , for lubrication ?

Only problem i see is fragile trichomes rubbing against hard glass beads spoiling a high percentage of trichs.

Will see what sizes of glass beads we use at work.

This could work for salvia hopefully now acetone is atracting attention.

Seriously think static could work , if a trichome head will hold a specific charge relative to mass or diameter or both , then it should be possible to do this and sort to very narrow bands.

Possibly a continuous or batch wet centrifuge system would work for industrial quantities but might not scale down well.

On a less serious note ,

Maybe you could fool ants into moveing and collecting trichomes like when you disturb a nest and they collect all the eggs.
Have seen them cart a bag of sugar ten yards down the garden overnight and it was clean as new.
Maybe not ants but some other non lethal insect whose eggs are the same size as trichomes but has poor eyesight and is easily led ....

What an elegant solution that would be , but a bit too silly.

Dry Sift

Dry Sift

ganja din said:

B) Make 'Dry Glass Caviar':


1. Work under yellow light.

2. Freshly harvest cannabis flowers and trim of all leaf, yes all! Cut branches so cannabis buds are manageable sizes like 4-6 inches.

Click to expand...

What does the Yellow light do??

Sam's method uses cured well dried plant material. I think he likes to cure it for a few months before he does any separation with it. Also I am pretty sure he grinds up the whole plant into a powder then cleans it up from that, hence the term Farmers Grade Kief.

Aqua Lab Tech

Man, that hash looks so tasty. I've smoked some good hash, but nothing like that kind of quality.

can I nominate one for December POTM?

They should all be nominated IMO. Make it the Bubble/Sam monthly blowout. There's no competition for this quality.

Hi all !

bubbleman, for the amazing picts, that's something very special ! and you always amaze me with such macros...


ganja din, your posts and the info you gathered are really interesting ! you seems to be very well informed on chemical and physical extraction processes ! how do you consume herb or hash, through vaporizing ?

I liked the post you suggest using a hot bath to start decarboxylate acids and thc A so it improves the potency.
If i understood well, it also could be applied before the ice o lator process, making the ending product more potent ? a 3 hours bath at less then 38°C should do the trick ?
Did anybody gave that a try ?

sorry for the off topic ^^... back on the subject..



Aqualab, great to see you around mate ! ...

mysteries seems to gather experts around here !

the static way could be an interesting thing to explore...


foomar, great post mate !

do you have any idea of what kind of process could be used ? definetly when you have some herb mixed with some dry sieve on a plastic container, you can use static to get the plant material out...

but to separate the stalk from the glandular trichomes, would it be easy ? a theoric static separation would extract only spherical surfaces like glandular trichomes ?

Maybe you could fool ants into moveing and collecting trichomes like when you disturb a nest and they collect all the eggs.
Have seen them cart a bag of sugar ten yards down the garden overnight and it was clean as new.
Maybe not ants but some other non lethal insect whose eggs are the same size as trichomes but has poor eyesight and is easily led ....

Click to expand...

i love this idea, can t help myself imagine Sam trying to training insects

thanks all for all this knowledge.. i ld love to have so many buds to try different methods !

++

This would make an excellent school project ......

Looks like the cheap readily available grades of glass beads have a very wide nominal size band , possibly clean up with sieves to be useable but it looks like its lab suppliers at £25 a kilo and up.


Sizes Available

​

​

Compared to some industrial seperations this should be relatively simple.
Product is spherical in shape and of a narrow size and weght band , reasonably solid at lower temps and insoluble in water.

.

If i get this right , the size of the void within loosely packed sherical glass beads is determined by the bead size , chooseing the correct one will selectively remove a narrow band of particle size.

300 - 500 micron for a 15 - 25 micron trichome , probably a formula to predict.

So this is done wet , for lubrication ?

Only problem i see is fragile trichomes rubbing against hard glass beads spoiling a high percentage of trichs.

Will see what sizes of glass beads we use at work.

Click to expand...

Hey,

I think the aqueous solution was used to cushion the abrasion, and suspend the trichomes (ex. from the glass beads). I don't think the solution is needed if one doesn't use something for abrasion as powerful as a cell disruptor.

I also was concerned about the trich heads getting 'squeezed' as it were between beads. That is why I thought using only a few for a short time would be wise. And that they are very cold should make trich stick less.

Let us know what you come up with!

Personally, I think the method using the aspirator I suggest is a great possible method. With current bublebag use one scraps the bags, no? Crushing much heads, thus its hash, not kif. However, using an aspirator would allow one to make bubble kif! Very easily isolating only trich heads! That is the method I will use, not dry sift. I bet 'wet glass caviar' would be better than 'dry glass caviar'...

What does the Yellow light do??

Sam's method uses cured well dried plant material. I think he likes to cure it for a few months before he does any separation with it. Also I am pretty sure he grinds up the whole plant into a powder then cleans it up from that, hence the term Farmers Grade Kief.

Aqua Lab Tech

Click to expand...

Yellow light slows conversion of THC to CBN. Other nanometers (wavelenghts; eg. colors) more quickly convert THC to CBN.[1]

One could use the method I suggest with cured cannabis. I just thought the freeze/thaw to distrupt cells would be more effective when raw cannabis is still fresh and moist.

[1] "The medicinal uses of cannabis and cannabinoids"
Author(s): Geoffrey W. Guy, Brian A. Whittle and Philip J. Robson

Hello ganja_din,

ganja din said:

On the topic of decarboxylation of cannabinoid acids and TCA-A:
… The problem is the bp (boiling point) of many acids is fairly low. Thus one boils off a large % of acids and THCA-A before they convert to cannabinoids.
…

Click to expand...

Which substances will evaporate from resin below 100C ? Will you post or link the data plz.