If you use Too Much Lime - How do you Repair the Soil ?

St. Phatty · Nov 28, 2015

A neighbor warned me that the "premium compost" I bought from a local composter was likely full of bark fines and likely to run acidic. I responded by using about 1/4 cup of lime for a 12 gallon soil mix.

WRONG !

Plants don't like it and the run-off is about 7.6 pH.

So I re-transplanted the plants into Foxfarm Ocean Forest.

So I have a pile of pots in a spare bathroom, maybe 24 gallons total, 3 cubic feet.

What can I mix into it to repair it & bring down the pH ?

... besides bark fines. :biggrin:

exploziv · Nov 28, 2015

I usually use spaghnum moss to lower ph. It's around PH 5 from what i can remember. Also provides aeration and a place for soil organisms to stay when the mix dries a bit.

Mikell · Nov 28, 2015

Exploziv is on the right track.

Although I would question how basic the mix was to begin. 1/4c in a 12 gallon mix wouldn't push pH very far. Testing any unmixed soil may be wise.

dank.frank · Nov 28, 2015

Sulfur...

Either Gypsum or Sul-Po-Mg to offset and allow for balancing to take place on it's own.

Or elemental sulfur like Tiger-90.

dank.Frank

Ratzilla · Nov 28, 2015

You wound'nt have used hydrated lime by any chance ?
Dolomitic lime 1/4 cup to 12 gallons is didly squat.
Ratz :tiphat:

Ratzilla · Nov 28, 2015

dank.frank said:
Sulfur...

Either Gypsum or Sul-Po-Mg to offset and allow for balancing to take place on it's own.

dank.Frank

Frank I think you will find that the sulfur that is in Gypsum as well as the sulfur that is in K-mag to be a neutral salt.
Unlike elemental sulfur.
Ratz :tiphat:

milkyjoe · Nov 28, 2015

Any of the base cations will drive pH up. Without a soil test no way to say but I always suspect K when compost is involved.

I would highly recommend a soil test. You could easily end up with an unbalanced soil using either peat or the sulfate salt/leach method

St. Phatty · Nov 28, 2015

Ratzilla said:
You wound'nt have used hydrated lime by any chance ?
Dolomitic lime 1/4 cup to 12 gallons is didly squat.
Ratz

It was "High Yield" (brand name) agricultural lime.
Calcium & Magnesium listed among the contents.

The one time I've seen a soil test it was rather thorough, sort of like reading detailed specs for GH nutes including micro. Cost about $160.

Maybe I can find a soil test that's less expensive.

Basically it was -
8 gallons "premium compost" from the local compost place.
1 gallon compost from a hot composting effort in Sonoma county, really good dirt, though very rich
1/4 cup bone meal
1/4 cup bat guano, high P
1/4 cup lime
1 gallon primo dirt from area of front yard that plants love to grow in, very fertile
2 gallons from sandy loam area of front yard

Anyway, it looks like the lime was un-necessary.

Since it looks like I might need to use more measuring equipment when I grow (like pH meters), I'm wondering about those kind that you stick in the soil. I saw them at the store. They are electronic and they measure the pH of the dirt.

I've used the kind that measure the pH of a solution. I switched from hydro to organic soil in 2008. :woohoo:

Everything always went well. I also never used lime.

DAMN ! A little bit of that lime goes a long way. It's like Everclear or something. :tiphat:

milkyjoe · Nov 28, 2015

Logan Labs... $25

Heusinomics · Nov 28, 2015

Dang. My first thought was that it would b kinda like adding too much salt to a recipe.
The only fix would b to add more base soil and adjust your mix again.

But your already in the mix so to speak. However there is hope.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. But couldn't you just ADD/Adjust your water or solutions ph to counteract as said above?..

Lemon Juce or citric acid/ph down to the lower side like 5.6-5.8?
It will not stay that low long but will ofer some available nutes and slowly counteract the lime? After afew weeks you should hav a much more mello mix right?..

Hope things perk up for ya
Big ups respect and happy growng.

Mikell · Nov 29, 2015

Soil pH meters are witchcraft.

And as everyone knows, witchcraft is much less reliable than wizardry.

Make a slurry (equal volume soil and distiller or RO water), allow to sit for half an hour, stirring occasionally. Filter (or not) and read with pH pen or meter from your hydro grow.

And now you're on the road to wizardom.

I generally agree with soil testing recommendations, but this time your problem is much more evident.

That mix is almost pure compost

Tactical Farmer · Nov 29, 2015

If it were me, ide dump that compost mix on a big tarp, add an equal amount of peat, and aqual part perlite or crushed pumice lava rock.

So its equal parts compost, peat, airaition media.

Cook it for two weeks, then plant or retest.

milkyjoe · Nov 29, 2015

Mikell said:
Soil pH meters are witchcraft.

And as everyone knows, witchcraft is much less reliable than wizardry.

Make a slurry (equal volume soil and distiller or RO water), allow to sit for half an hour, stirring occasionally. Filter (or not) and read with pH pen or meter from your hydro grow.

And now you're on the road to wizardom.

I generally agree with soil testing recommendations, but this time your problem is much more evident.

That mix is almost pure compost

And how does cimpost have free base cations? Not completely composted?

St. Phatty · Nov 29, 2015

milkyjoe said:
And how does cimpost have free base cations? Not completely composted?

Maybe that is the problem. The bloom additives and lime are not completely composted.

Adding citric acid sounds good.

Heck, if cutting up some grapefruit and mixing that in, to lower the pH a little and hopefully give the redworms something to counteract the lime as they're swimming through the muck ... wonder how many grapefruit.

I guess I could even add Limes to counteract the Lime ? :woohoo:

Heusinomics · Nov 29, 2015

Jst Check the solution w your hydro ph meter to b sure it's not drasticly low

Add some check. Add some more check..exc

VortexPower420 · Nov 29, 2015

I'm feeling the pH is independent of the sicck plants. You measuring the pH just gave you a number that may or may not mean anything. pH is a fickle bitch.

earthwyrms · Nov 29, 2015

Coca Cola!!! , <-- pure P source + weak acid, OP said the run-off is ~7.6pH

Coca Cola!!!

, <-- pure P source + weak acid, OP said the run-off is ~7.6pH

Coca Cola!!!

H3PO4, Phophoric acid is a weak acid
and a P, phosphate (PO4) source

the Ca(OH)2 should react making Calcium phosphates and water.
they may be pH buffers, tough i would have to search the net.
Calcium is a strong base; although, usually very insoluble.
phophate is a weak acid,
so the salts of the two should be slightly basic/alkaline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_phosphate

if you want to use stronger acids, they would need some chemistry, muhahahahaha, titration/dilution
so Nitric acid, HNO3, would give you Calcium nitrate, Ca(NO3)2,
actually some hydrate, mostly all salts absorb/adhere to different amounts of water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_nitrate

and Sulfuric acid, H2SO4, would give you Calcium sulfate (hydrates/attached to water molekules)
like gypsum (it is the dihydrate, two water molekules)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_sulfate

those salts would be more neutral but not quite as neutral as NaCl, believe. it is something i am interested in. they would lack P though, so i mentioned it for later searchers, in case nitrogen or sulfur was needed or a more neutral salt or more slightly acidic (sulfates for some reason, like sodium sulfates). i don't know why but science is weird like that (i mean the needing semi-related info at seemingly random times). kind of like page hopping on wikipedia for different learning approaches.

OP said the run-off is ~7.6pH so Coca Cola is maybe more forgiving and easier (and a P source).

Ratzilla · Nov 29, 2015

Talking about pH meters being witchcraft.
At one time I had 3-4 different meters and they would all read different.
I would clean them and calibrated them and they would again all read different.
Then I got a soil pH meter a control wizard with the long probe.
Depending if its real clean or not it also will read different.
Hell it reads different depending on how far the probe is inserted.
Also depending on how wet the medium is will give it different readings.
Deeper with wet bottoms will read in the 4s while dryer tops will read in the 6 iss.
heh heh heh
So knowing its witch craft I insert the probe to whatever depth that gives me the reading that I am most comfortable with!
I do use it to set the mixes initial pH then after that it is put away.
Indeed a dog chasing it's own tail in organics .
Ratz :tiphat:

G.O. Joe · Nov 29, 2015

St. Phatty said:
It was High Yield (brand name) agricultural lime.

There's a Hi-Yield Agricultural Limestone, and there's a too hot Horticultural Hydrated Lime. The limestone wouldn't be a problem. Peat and perlite is the whole solution.

Mikell · Nov 29, 2015

^Hyyyyyup

Soil meters work great at ball parking until they degrade irreparably.

Meters are another story. You get what you pay for, compounded by care and handling.

If you're unsure which is correct, calibrate them all and compare to a standard. Toss the duds.

Not entirely relevant to this style of growing, but helps to see if you're in the right ballpark.

I posted the slurry test as general knowledge. If one makes a new mix, it's a simple way to see if you're within a reasonable range.

But we're not even at that point and miles away from balancing minerals/soil testing.

milkyjoe said:
And how does cimpost have free base cations? Not completely composted?

Who cares? This entire thread is moot until he makes a soil mix, not a lump of amended compost.

From what I gather (correct me if I'm wrong), this is an introductory affair. No ones trying to crack the atom. He wants to make a soil mix that will grow a few plants. There are dozens of recipes here and elsewhere that do just that, without any malarkey to turn his head like a top.

KISS the first few rounds, then dive into the science/philosophy.

If you use Too Much Lime - How do you Repair the Soil ?

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