native american strains = american landrace weed?

larry badiner · May 22, 2016

american indians shamans grew peyote, they could've had a stash of weed somewhere thats good to smoke.. anyone have pics or info or a grow report on seeds or clones from a reservation?

or better yet, a website i can buy native american seeds

CannaZen · May 23, 2016

To assume, because of an native culture that grew a cacti plant found wild, local to that area and its local native group of people, to mean that culture to also have cannabis (said to have spread out of eur-asia somewhere around the same early timeline of humans) is a very large leap of conclusion to have.

IIRC, when North America was colonized, european hemp was brought over with the colonists. My question is, where did the europeans get their hemp from?

Donkeybrains · May 23, 2016

Yep I believe the Indians smoked tobacco for the most part.

Thule · May 23, 2016

CannaZen said:
To assume, because of an native culture that grew a cacti plant found wild, local to that area and its local native group of people, to mean that culture to also have cannabis (said to have spread out of eur-asia somewhere around the same early timeline of humans) is a very large leap of conclusion to have.

IIRC, when North America was colonized, european hemp was brought over with the colonists. My question is, where did the europeans get their hemp from?

Spain and England for the most part, but the english later brought "better suited" strains from India to the Caribbean, perhaps the continent as well.

NEW ENGLAND · May 23, 2016

Then there's Hi~A~Wartha lol

Roms · May 23, 2016

I think protohistoric cannabis in America is possible...

For North A. maybe from the East by the Vikings...?

For South A. maybe from the Ouest by the Autronesians, have to check old greens from Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Chile... And Brazil with Santa Maria, Manga rosa...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=317023
Here is Peruvian vibes that reminds me South Africans, same Austronesian influences??? Anyway it takes us back to an antediluvian era... Peace

MJPassion · May 23, 2016

The current paradigm says cannabis came to America via European migration/colonisation.

It's possible that it was in America sooner but it obviously wasn't a significant crop if it were.

biologic · May 23, 2016

Ganja migrated from Asia to the American continent and then spread to South America.

Capt.Ahab · May 23, 2016

"PART II – NORTH AMERICAN CONTEXT OF CANNABIS USE

A. History of Cannabis in North America

While there is strong historical evidence illustrating that the psychoactive properties of cannabis have been used as part of cultural practices of several societies throughout the world, it is unclear when the psychoactive properties of cannabis were discovered in North America. Some scholars believe that cannabis probably existed in North America long before the Europeans arrived. In Chris Bennett’s book Green Gold: Marijuana in Magic and Religion he says, “there is some very good physical evidence that indicates cannabis played a part in some of the native cultures prior to the arrival of Columbus.”([104]) In 1985, Bill Fitzgerald discovered resin scrapings of 500-year-old pipes in Morriston, Ontario containing “traces of hemp and tobacco that is five times stronger than the cigarettes smoked today.”([105]) Other archaeological evidence includes stone and wooden pipes and hemp fibre pouches that were found in the Ohio Valley from about 800 A.D.([106]) "

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/371/ille/library/spicer-e.htm#A.%20%20History%20of%20Cannabis%20in%20North%20America

Thule · May 23, 2016

J Medicono said:
This is where it all started there is not one orginal land race in usa it was brought in by first settlers

I thought that was what I said.

gekolite · May 24, 2016

Pangaea the super continent existed 175 million years ago ,where the American continent and the African continent existed as one continent,,,, they were one land mass , along with the European continent . So basically the land masses on earth were one . Modern plants have been on earth 500 million years , so this means at this time plants species were on the American continent and the African continent at the same time .

thejact55 · May 24, 2016

My thoughts based on no science, just historical hypothesis. We can argue about pangaea and whatever else, but when you mix white colonization and war and genocide, then add modern day white propoganda and prohibition, there is no possible way Indians could have held onto any old forms of this plant, if they even used, which I doubt. Im a white dude just saying what see as obvious

CannaZen · May 24, 2016

Thule said:
I thought that was what I said.

No, i thought that was essentially what i had said but it seems we each have a piece of the puzzle to add, don't we.

Capt.Ahab said:
"PART II – NORTH AMERICAN CONTEXT OF CANNABIS USE

A. History of Cannabis in North America

While there is strong historical evidence illustrating that the psychoactive properties of cannabis have been used as part of cultural practices of several societies throughout the world, it is unclear when the psychoactive properties of cannabis were discovered in North America. Some scholars believe that cannabis probably existed in North America long before the Europeans arrived. In Chris Bennett’s book Green Gold: Marijuana in Magic and Religion he says, “there is some very good physical evidence that indicates cannabis played a part in some of the native cultures prior to the arrival of Columbus.”([104]) In 1985, Bill Fitzgerald discovered resin scrapings of 500-year-old pipes in Morriston, Ontario containing “traces of hemp and tobacco that is five times stronger than the cigarettes smoked today.”([105]) Other archaeological evidence includes stone and wooden pipes and hemp fibre pouches that were found in the Ohio Valley from about 800 A.D.([106]) "

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/c....htm#A. History of Cannabis in North America

That possibility is very fascinating. I wonder if this could be further verified by a trusted third party.

gekolite said:
Pangaea the super continent existed 175 million years ago ,where the American continent and the African continent existed as one continent,,,, they were one land mass , along with the European continent . So basically the land masses on earth were one . Modern plants have been on earth 500 million years , so this means at this time plants species were on the American continent and the African continent at the same time .

Dont be ridiculous, not all modern plants evolved with the dinosaurs millions of years ago. They may share traits with their ancestors of the time perhaps.

Are you looking for attention?

thejact55 said:
My thoughts based on no science, just historical hypothesis. We can argue about pangaea and whatever else, but when you mix white colonization and war and genocide, then add modern day white propoganda and prohibition, there is no possible way Indians could have held onto any old forms of this plant, if they even used, which I doubt. Im a white dude just saying what see as obvious

I don't know where that war, genocide and 'white' propoganda/prohibition came from, do you? :comfort:

Donkeybrains · May 24, 2016

It was probably here the whole time. Mostly of the hemp variety. I'm sure the shamans of the tribe would partake in getting high when it called for it. They probably used it mostly for food and cloths. Europeans probably brought the culture of using it for fun. And new strains

Donkeybrains · May 24, 2016

I live in Ohio and have found hemp in the wild but it used to be grown industrially here.

farmerlion · Jul 10, 2016

The Native Americans didn't grow hemp for ceremony. It was introduced as tribes from the north (Canada, Montana and the Dakota Territories) pushed weaker tribes to the south. In Old Mexico (Texas), Arizona ect. The Native tribes were introduced to Mexican sativa's. Some but very little ever came back north as the tribes were moved onto reservations in mid to late 1800's. I have spoken to many elders over the years and many concur the plains Indians never grew their own ceremonial smoke. Very nomadic people following herds of buffalo. In the Dakotas only Ruderalis hemp grows through maturity. It's a wonderful thought but much more of a myth. Peace

corky1968 · Jul 11, 2016

I'm not going to say that there was never any American Landrace Cannabis.

But if there was. It's safe to say that the Government would have destroyed them on sight.

What's growing out there now in isolated pockets is probably just feral plants.

Goyakla · Jul 11, 2016

I wouldnt rule out the vikings...they had enough Seeds from their long roads to the east as far as Turkey..and they did get there loooong before Colombus.

Mystic Funk · Jul 13, 2016

I do believe native Americans grew and smoked cannabis. there is some evidence to back this up.

The Hopewell mound people that lived around where Ohio is now, built large mounds to bury there dead, in the burial site they found that the dead had been wrapped in hemp cloth and pipes were placed inside that had cannabis and tobacco resin in them.. the tobacco resin had a lot more nicotine then todays tobacco. These sites are dated back to 400ad.
when the fist documented explorers came to America they spoke of the native people growing cannabis on river banks.

It is also said that the Hopi people grew and smoked cannabis before Columbus came to America they also grew and smoked very strong tobacco. so strong it will make you trip out! what makes the Hopi tobacco psychedelic it has a alkaloid in it that has been bred out of modern tobacco and the nicotine was much, much higher.
I keep a variety of this ancient Hopi tobacco to preserve it...

There are also legends of the black foot people using cannabis.
Here is a story from the black foot people.. some say they are talking about tobacco others say it cannabis. you be the judge...

''The story of the sacred weed''

There once were four brothers, all spiritual men who had power. In a vision the oldest of them heard a voice saying, "Out there is a sacred weed, pick it and burn it." The man looked around and saw the strange weed, he put it in the fire. It gave off a pleasing aroma.
Then the second brother had a dream in which a voice said;"Take this herb, chop it fine, put it into a hide bag."The man did as the dream had told, and the dried herb in his hide bag was wonderfully fragrant.
The third brother had a vision in which he saw a man hollowing out a bone and putting the strange weed into it .A voice said, "Make four pipes like this, "and the fourth brother carved four pipes out of an animal's leg bones.
Then the youngest of the brothers had a vision. A voice told him; "You four men light your pipes and smoke, inhale the smoke, exhale it. Let the smoke ascend to the clouds." The voice also taught him the songs and prayers that went with smoking.
So the four medicine men, born of the same mother, smoked together. This was the first time that men had ever smoked and they sang and prayed together as they did.
The brothers, who called the scared weed:"Nawak'osis", were meant to teach it's use to the people. But Nawak'osis made them powerful and wise, and clear-minded and they did not want to share it with the others.
They planted the scared weed in a secret place that only they knew of. They guarded the song, prayers, and rituals that went with smoking. They formed a Society just four them.
So there was anger, there was war, there was restlessness of spirit, there was impiety, Nawak'osis was meant to calm anger, to make men worship, to make peace, to ease the mind. But without the scared herb, unity and peace was lacking.
A young man called Bulls-by-Himself said to his wife; "These four powerful ones have been given something good to share with the people, but they are keeping it for themselves. So things are bad. I must find a way to plant and reap the scared weed they call, Nawak'osis."
Bulls-by-Himself and his wife went to a scared lake and set up their tipi close by its shore. The man left every day to hunt and look for the plant, Nawak'osis. The woman stayed in the lodge to quill, tan, and prepare food.
One day while she was alone, she heard somebody singing beautifully. She searched everywhere to find the source of the music and discovered that it was coming from a beaver house close by the shore."It must be the beavers singing, she thought.Their songs are so lovely. I hope they don't stop.
Her husband came home with plenty of meat, but had not found Nawak'osis. The woman called his attention to the music, but he said,"I hear nothing, it's your imagination. No, she said, I hear it clearly, put your ear to the beaver lodge. He did, but still heard nothing. Then the wife took her knife and made a hole in the beaver lodge. Thru it they could not only hear the beavers sing, but also watch them performing a strange, beautiful dance.
My young brothers, the wife called to them, be of a sharing spirit, Teach me your wonderful song and medicine .The beavers answered, Close up the hole you have made because it will let the cold in, then we will come out and visit with you.
So she sealed up the hole and that night four beavers came to Bulls-by-Himself's lodge. As soon as they were inside they turned themselves into humans. One asked," What have you come for?" "I have come to find the sacred weed called Nawak'osis, "said Bulls-by -Himself."Then this is the right place", said the man-beaver."We are water people, and Nawak'osis is water medicine."
We will give you this scared herb, but first you must learn the songs, prayers, and the dances and ceremonies that go with it. Here is what you must do. By day, go out and get the skin of every four legged and two legged creature that lives in and around the water, expect, of course beavers. You must get the skins of all creatures that represent water. Sun and water mean life, Sun begets life, and water makes it grow."
So everyday Bulls-by-Himself went out for the skins, while his wife scraped, tanned, and smoked them. And every night the four man-beavers came and taught them the prayers, songs, and dances that go with Nawak'osis.
After a while, the beavers said ,"Now all is ready. Now you have all the skins, and now you have all the knowledge. Make the skins, which represents water power, into a bag, into a medicine bundle. Tomorrow night we'll come again for the last time to tell you what to do."
The following night the beavers came as they had promised. They brought with them the sacred weed, Nawak'osis. The top of the stalks was covered with little round seeds, and the man-beavers put the seeds into the medicine bundle the woman had prepared.
"It's planting time now", said the beavers."Don't touch Nawak'osis before you're ready to plant. Choose a place where there is not too much shade and not too much sunlight. Mix plenty of brown earth with plenty of black earth, and keep the soil loose. Say the prayers we have taught you. Then you, Bulls-by-Himself, must take a deer horn and with the point, make holes in the earth, one hole for each seed. And you, his wife, must use a buffalo-horn spoon to drop one seed into each hole. Sing the songs we taught you all the while. Then both of you dance lightly over this earth, tamping down the seeds. After that, you just wait for Nawak'osis to grow.
"The young men left, turning back into beavers as they went. Bulls-by-himself and his wife planted the scared weed as they had been told.
The four medicine-brothers said to one another, "What can this man and his wife be planting? Their songs sound familiar". They sent a spy to find out and he came back and said, "They are planting the scared weed, and doing it in the scared manner." The four brothers began to laugh, "No, it can’t be, It's some useless weed, none but us knows the medicine of Nawak'osis."
But when it was time to harvest, a great hailstorm destroyed the secret patch of the four brothers. Nothing was left, not even a single seed. The four brothers sent a spy to see if Bulls-by-Himself's patch had also been destroyed. The spy came back and said, "The man and his wife had no hail on their field, and this is what they are growing". He showed the brothers some of the leaves he had picked."It is indeed Nawak'osis", they said, and they shook their heads in wonder.
Thus with the help of the beaver people, Bulls-by-Himself and his wife, brought the scared weed to the tribes, who have been smoking it in the sacred manner every since.

I have been looking for native America cannabis for a long time. I don't know if it has died out or the native people keep it a secret. like most thing they do...
I'm hoping to bump into a native American some day so I can ask them about this ''sacred weed'' but there are not much native's where I live in America...

peace!
-mystic :tiphat:

MJPassion · Jul 14, 2016

Haha... cool story... wonder if that's the story Bodhi was refering to after naming his Dream Beaver?

Of the native Americans I know, none have ever mentioned any tribal legends about cannabis. Sure makes one wonder though.

native american strains = american landrace weed?

larry badiner

Well-known member

Member

Dr. Narrowleaf

Well-known member

.bzh

Observer

biologic

Feeding the ducks with a bun.

Dr. Narrowleaf

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Member

Member

Microbial Repositories

Active member

Member

Active member

Observer