OG Kush, and Trainwreck. Drain to waste coco with House & Garden Nutes

Mo Budz · Apr 13, 2009

gowanstarr said:
I also run H&G in a coco drain to waste system. I run basically the same way as described but i am using the Aqua Flakes with cal-mag added 5ml a gallon. Do you ever have to add cal-mag to the Coco A&B?
My buddy swore that R.O. water with Aqua Flakes was better for Coco than the actual Coco A&B. I do get pretty spectacular results though. Just wondering if you have to add cal-mag. I love H&G nutes in coco, so simple and easy with great results. It makes some beginners I know look like pros. I think that not enough people know about these nutes but will soon. Out here in Central Cali people never even heard of H&G and most hydro stores dont even carry it. I finally talked my hydro store in to start carrying it
He said he is recieving great feed back on their products. No I dont work for H&G I just want people to know this is a great nute line.

I have herd of people using either the aqua flakes, or the coco a&b. I personally havn't tried using it, but you know the saying..."if it aint broke, dont fix it". I'm glad that there are others out there who are doin similar things with the H&G.

Started week 2, so the plants are 7 days into bloom today. Snapped a few pics this morning. These babies are jammin. For week 1, I started my rez with a ppm of around 600 using the .70 conversion. This week, I bumped up the food to around 675ppms and a ph of 5.8. By week 5 I will bump my ph up to about 6.5 for the last 3 weeks. Phosphorous is more available at that ph, and I have noticed some great differences in my yeild by doing so. More to come soon...

Garden Profile

OG Kush

A new purps strain called Night Shade (very purple stuff)

yayarea · Apr 14, 2009

Great looking as usual!!! Glad your back, enjoyed your grows at the old AN site!!! Is this your first run with the xxl hoods? If not what is your take on them. Im using the super sun 2 hoods that are very much liked on this site, but I am experiencing light burn if I keep the hoods any lower than 24inches with 1000watts. One more thing what is your veg formula would it be safe to use their nute calculator? Currently using floranova bloom for my grows, looking to see if HG will do me better. Peace

guest5703 · Apr 14, 2009

daaamn bro, you got a nice group of hoes there. Thick stalks lookin awesome, what do you have over them 2-1k's? Can't wait to see the nightshade, I love purple buds, shit who doesn't! I can see those TW girls in the back of that last pic, there's no mistaking her man. How often do they get fed? Keep up the great work, you must be stoked! PEACE

Phosphorous is more available at that ph, and I have noticed some great differences in my yeild by doing so.

Interesting.... :chin:

Peat · Apr 15, 2009

Hey Mo!

Top notch garden! :bow:

Your plants look happy & healthy from here, bro!

I'm very interested in your irrig sys :yes:

and have a few questions...

I can see a lot from your pics, :yes:

but I'm not familiar with some of the pieces.

In particular, what are the white trays? Planter boxes?
How are they plumbed?

I see what looks like a black PVC "gutter" that runs to a wastes collection bin.

And, did you put a 45 degree connector in your hoses, just before the basket drippers?
(Are those "Basket Drippers?")

I like the PVC stands / table legs alot!
What size pipe?

I'd love an "undercarrage" pic! :wink:
(And, maybe a profile shot, too?)

Hehe. I hope I'm not asking too much. :redface:

Thanks for sharing what ya have already! :respect:

Wait...What? · Apr 15, 2009

Its regular [albeit short] American Agritech (aka Botanicare) leach trays. Same thing as a JetStream turned sideways, more or less.

Mo Budz · Apr 15, 2009

yayarea said:
Great looking as usual!!! Glad your back, enjoyed your grows at the old AN site!!! Is this your first run with the xxl hoods? If not what is your take on them. Im using the super sun 2 hoods that are very much liked on this site, but I am experiencing light burn if I keep the hoods any lower than 24inches with 1000watts. One more thing what is your veg formula would it be safe to use their nute calculator? Currently using floranova bloom for my grows, looking to see if HG will do me better. Peace

Thanks yayarea, ya its been a long time since the an medical site. I have been using the xxl's for about 6 months now, and I love them. At one time I had 4 going with 1000w horti's in all, and 2 identical systems as the one here. Lets just say you needed shades to walk in the g-room. One thing that I have noticed over time is that my plants seem to grow best with the light close to 24 inches above them. But after their stretch, its hard with some strains.

Their nute calculator would work great for veg. I always use about half of the recomended A&B ammounts, but all the addatives stay pretty close on. I started using the fox farm marine qusine on my mother plants a couple years ago. I was so impressed with the overall health and growth, that I decided to experiment with it on my babies. In the 4" containers, I give them each 1/8 tsp of FF marine qusine (i know its not spelled right... :joint:

), and that lasts them the 10 to 14 days worth of food. I just hand water them with plain RO for that time before I switch to the bloom cycle using the H&G formula.

Mo Budz · Apr 15, 2009

caligreen said:
daaamn bro, you got a nice group of hoes there. Thick stalks lookin awesome, what do you have over them 2-1k's? Can't wait to see the nightshade, I love purple buds, shit who doesn't! I can see those TW girls in the back of that last pic, there's no mistaking her man. How often do they get fed? Keep up the great work, you must be stoked! PEACE

Interesting....

Thanks cali, ya its 2 thouies. I'm workin right now to rig up some kind of netting for those wrecks. Those fockers like to break and fall over when they start to get heavy. The OG's hold their own very good tho.

They get fed once a day for 3 minutes. Since its a drain to waste, they are getting a complete nutrient profile every day, compared to a recirc. where the nutes will change over the week. I think I have got my best yeilds with the DTW so far. But I'm always looking for the next best thing. Thanks again brotha.

Mo Budz · Apr 15, 2009

Peat said:
Hey Mo!

Top notch garden!
Your plants look happy & healthy from here, bro!

I'm very interested in your irrig sys and have a few questions...

I can see a lot from your pics,
but I'm not familiar with some of the pieces.

In particular, what are the white trays? Planter boxes?
How are they plumbed?

I see what looks like a black PVC "gutter" that runs to a wastes collection bin.

And, did you put a 45 degree connector in your hoses, just before the basket drippers?
(Are those "Basket Drippers?")

I like the PVC stands / table legs alot!
What size pipe?

I'd love an "undercarrage" pic! :wink:
(And, maybe a profile shot, too?)

Hehe. I hope I'm not asking too much.

Thanks for sharing what ya have already!

Thank you peat. The white trays are botanicare 42 x 8 x 6. They all drain into a peice of 2 inch black abs pipe which fills up a waste rez which I have to drain usually once a week.

The drip lines were actually set up for the lower profile botanicare 8" boss cubes. They are only about 7 to 8" tall so when I initially built the drip system, I made them for that height. So I had to kind of stretch them at an angle to fit in the taller 2 gallon grow bags. And yes they are the basket drippers.

That table was my prototype, and I believe I made out of 3/4" and 1" pvc. I used 2-1/2 inch abs for the rails that the trays sit on. Its actually pretty sturdy, plenty strong enough for whats there. I have improved on it, and stepped up to all 1" pvc, and a few minor changes for a little extra strength. Total cost to build them was around $80 dollars (just for the tables). The drippers are all plumbed into 3/4" pvc with top hat grommets, and 1/4" drip line, all powered by a 1056gph pump.

I'll snap a couple of the frame, and give you a better idea on how I made it.

Thanks again for the q's, I'm sure others will benifit from your attention to detail.

Peat · Apr 16, 2009

Very cool! :joint:

Thanks, Mo Budz!

:lurk:

dyren · Apr 19, 2009

Yo Mo, great grow I'm hoping to replicate eventually. Quick question: I'm unable to locate Botanicare 42" x 8" x 6" trays. On their site they have a 42" x 8" x 4", is that what you use? http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=8&pro_id_pk=53

Also a point of clarification on the following: "The drippers are all plumbed into 3/4" pvc with top hat grommets, and 1/4" drip line, all powered by a 1056gph pump." I'm trying to get a picture of what this looks like. How much length of 3/4" pvc is required to fit all those dripper lines, and does it run along the length of the setup? Everything is so clean and automated. I love your grow!

Thanks,
Cheers

Mo Budz · Apr 21, 2009

Hey Peat, sorry for the delay in the pics, had a real busy week, but here are some of the pics of the setup. All made from things you can get at your local hardware store, and can build for around $100.00

dyren said:
Yo Mo, great grow I'm hoping to replicate eventually. Quick question: I'm unable to locate Botanicare 42" x 8" x 6" trays. On their site they have a 42" x 8" x 4", is that what you use? http://www.americanagritech.com/product/product_detail.asp?ID=8&pro_id_pk=53

Also a point of clarification on the following: "The drippers are all plumbed into 3/4" pvc with top hat grommets, and 1/4" drip line, all powered by a 1056gph pump." I'm trying to get a picture of what this looks like. How much length of 3/4" pvc is required to fit all those dripper lines, and does it run along the length of the setup? Everything is so clean and automated. I love your grow!

Thanks,
Cheers

I'm not sure the exact lengths for the pvc. I cut it to fit the table I built, but those trays are 4" tall rather then 6". Hopefully some of the pics I snapped will help you see the construction of the system. Thanks again for your post.

Mo Budz · Apr 21, 2009

Week 3

Week 3

Hope everyone had a great 4:20, I'm still feelin it today.

Here we are at the end of week 2 and the start of week 3. They are looking nice and perkey today. For the start of week 3, I bumped their food up to about 725 ppm's / 6.0ph and its the last week of using the Roots Excelerator, and the Multi Enzyme. Starting week 4, I will switch to just the Bud XL for the stimulants, and then more feeding mod's for week 5-7. Thanks again everyone for folowing along and I hope you enjoy the pics.

Here's a few of the garden profile

Some random close ups of the different strains growing:

OG Kush

Here's a couple of the Night Shade. This stuff is a true purple strain. Right from the start it shows signs of purple, and just wait untill the end.... :joint:

A couple Train Wrecks:

Peat · Apr 22, 2009

Thank for the pics, Mo!
I'll stare at those for a couple of daze & hit ya w/ some MO questions!

You DIY'd the netting too?
Is that hand woven thread??? :crazy:

LOL

Nice genes! :canabis:

Not a spot on 'em! :bow:

I'm looking forward to watching them fill out!

I'm wondering...
Hypothetically speaking...
...use a smaller pump, but with longer run times???
Say, ... 200 GPH...18 drip sites...15 min run time, 1 - 3 x a day???

That way, I wouldn't need to get another pump, or a fancy repeat cycle timer...
Not that I'm trying to "cheap out"...
Just thinking out loud & thought I'd float it by ya...

Thanks for your help!
Big :respect:

Mo Budz · Apr 22, 2009

I think you can get away with it. As long as the pump is pushing water out of all the drippers is all that matters. I used to feed 2 to 4 times a day, but have found just once is all thats really needed in coco.

With my drain to waste, I get about 2 to 3 gallons a day of run off out of my 40 plants. Since im using a 50 gallon rez, I try to time my waterings to empty the nutrient rez in exactally 7 days. So all 40 plants are being fed about 7 gallons a day, and only 2-3 run out.

One thing I think is benificial about the drain to waste is you can monitor your run off alot more acurately since its always being fed the same solution for the week. I can tell how well my plants are feeding every week and if they are slowing down or are hungry for more. In the earlier stages, the runoff can be 200ppm's less then the feed water. As they mature, the runoff can drop as much as half of the original feed mix. It's a much easier way to dial in a strain for top yeilds.

Oregonic · Apr 25, 2009

Greetings Mo Budz - everything is looking beautiful. I really like your setup. Should be a bountiful harvest...

I'm in the middle of my first run using the H&G Coco line (doing drain to waste) after several with their soil line that produced very nice results and I was wondering if I could clarify a few points you mentioned earlier in the thread since you seem to have their coco line down so well. You mentioned that some plants don't respond well to the Top Booster and I'm wondering if it is just certain strains that you've experienced this with, or is it indicas or sativas? I'm running Whiteberry which is a 75% indica. And just to be clear if I do use the Top Booster I should be feeding it for three days around day 20 if my strain is 50-55 days? Thats when I was using it with my soil runs on the advice of the guy at my shop. I never figured that it could be detrimental if you mistimed it though... I'm also wondering if you ever use their Magic Green foliar spray and what you think of it.

Lastly (sorry), I'm most curious about the upping of your pH that you do. H&G recommends it at 5.8 the whole time but you say you take yours up to 6.0 and then even have it up at 6.5 for the last three weeks... I thought with coco you should always keep it between 5.5-6.0? But you say that you notice differences in yield from doing that, so I'm definitely all ears

Once again, beautiful work and thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with others.

Mr.Bitti · Apr 25, 2009

your setup is beautiful, exactly what im aiming for in the near future. and those plants are awesome, first grow ive seen with a strain that purps early. man im psyched to see this one bud out!!

unta · Apr 26, 2009

Nice setup man. Gonna subscribe to this one for sure. Good luck!

Mo Budz · Apr 26, 2009

Oregonic said:
Greetings Mo Budz - everything is looking beautiful. I really like your setup. Should be a bountiful harvest...

I'm in the middle of my first run using the H&G Coco line (doing drain to waste) after several with their soil line that produced very nice results and I was wondering if I could clarify a few points you mentioned earlier in the thread since you seem to have their coco line down so well. You mentioned that some plants don't respond well to the Top Booster and I'm wondering if it is just certain strains that you've experienced this with, or is it indicas or sativas? I'm running Whiteberry which is a 75% indica. And just to be clear if I do use the Top Booster I should be feeding it for three days around day 20 if my strain is 50-55 days? Thats when I was using it with my soil runs on the advice of the guy at my shop. I never figured that it could be detrimental if you mistimed it though... I'm also wondering if you ever use their Magic Green foliar spray and what you think of it.

Lastly (sorry), I'm most curious about the upping of your pH that you do. H&G recommends it at 5.8 the whole time but you say you take yours up to 6.0 and then even have it up at 6.5 for the last three weeks... I thought with coco you should always keep it between 5.5-6.0? But you say that you notice differences in yield from doing that, so I'm definitely all ears

Once again, beautiful work and thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with others.

Thanks Oregonic. With the Top Booster, its mostly certain strains. Train Wreck for example is one of them. Basically the Top Booster makes the plant think its in a time of drought, and causes the plant to push itself into flowering sooner. So if used at the right time, it will basically stop the stretch some, and bring on flowers sooner. The strain nightshade fills out faster then any strain I have, and if I were to use the Top Booster on that, it might be as early as the end of week 2.

As far as the Magic Green, I think its a great product if you plants are in a state of stress, or if they have a lockout in the soil/coco or any other medium. I do use it occasionally on my mothers, but not to often on my flowering plants. I never really noticed any increase in yeild by using it, but it does green up plants fast.

I like to play around with the pH a little. If you look at a pH scale, and what nutrients are available at different pH ranges, you will find that phosphorous is more available at 6.5 to 7. So I think by raising the pH in the critical flowering stages when the plants are using the most of it is benificial. I have been able to get the OG to produce over 2lbs a light using this method, and similar results with other strains. It's definentally something to mess with if you have the capabilities. I would just recomend to take detailed notes of all your feedings and pH levels every rez change of top off and find what works best for your setup.

Here's a pic of a pH chart that shows the different availabilities.

Thanks again, and I will have some more pics up soon for the start of week 4.

Mo Budz · Apr 26, 2009

Mr.Bitti said:
your setup is beautiful, exactly what im aiming for in the near future. and those plants are awesome, first grow ive seen with a strain that purps early. man im psyched to see this one bud out!!

unta said:
Nice setup man. Gonna subscribe to this one for sure. Good luck!

Thanks everyone. I will be updating some new pics tonight as soon as I can get in there and snap some new pics of week 4. Tons of growth since last week. :yoinks:

Thanks again

Oregonic · Apr 27, 2009

Mo Budz said:
Thanks Oregonic. With the Top Booster, its mostly certain strains. Train Wreck for example is one of them. Basically the Top Booster makes the plant think its in a time of drought, and causes the plant to push itself into flowering sooner. So if used at the right time, it will basically stop the stretch some, and bring on flowers sooner. The strain nightshade fills out faster then any strain I have, and if I were to use the Top Booster on that, it might be as early as the end of week 2.

As far as the Magic Green, I think its a great product if you plants are in a state of stress, or if they have a lockout in the soil/coco or any other medium. I do use it occasionally on my mothers, but not to often on my flowering plants. I never really noticed any increase in yeild by using it, but it does green up plants fast.

I like to play around with the pH a little. If you look at a pH scale, and what nutrients are available at different pH ranges, you will find that phosphorous is more available at 6.5 to 7. So I think by raising the pH in the critical flowering stages when the plants are using the most of it is benificial. I have been able to get the OG to produce over 2lbs a light using this method, and similar results with other strains. It's definentally something to mess with if you have the capabilities. I would just recomend to take detailed notes of all your feedings and pH levels every rez change of top off and find what works best for your setup.

Here's a pic of a pH chart that shows the different availabilities.

Thanks again, and I will have some more pics up soon for the start of week 4.

Thanks for the response Mo. I'm really intrigued by the pH changing and I'm going to give that a try this run and see how it works. I'm always interested in new (well-thought out) techniques to increase yield

As far as the Top Booster, now you kinda have me freaked out about using it... lol. Ok maybe not freaked out, just weary. My Whiteberries are supposed to be a 50 day strain and they're at day 14 right now and coming along nicely so I think I'ma hit them with it for 3 days here in about 3-4 days. Hopefully its of benefit.

Lookin forward to the update, you're about a week ahead of me so its fun following along... thanks again.

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OG Kush, and Trainwreck. Drain to waste coco with House & Garden Nutes

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