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Ron Paul 2012!!!

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
its all based on the first amendment.


they may not write law respecting or denying a establishment or persons right to excersize their freedom of speech. also there are plenty of office holders that are not good people who are not religious,it works both ways,i look at the individual.


here is a excript from wiki that might do a better job than i can a explaining this.

Separation of church and state in the United States:


"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson (in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists) and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly cited by the Supreme Court of the United States.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The modern concept of a wholly secular government is sometimes credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" in this context is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper. Echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams—who had written in 1644 of "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world"— Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."[1]

Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state."[2]

However, the Court has not always interpreted the constitutional principle as absolute, and the proper extent of separation between government and religion in the U.S. remains an ongoing subject of impassioned debate"

so ,he's not running on a religious platform,and the constitution forbids making laws for or against religion.

the article is perhaps a result of oppresion of freedom of speech wich includes his right to say merry christmas anytime and anywhere.so as a matter of law ,he's correct.


its up to us to put in office the right people,if your worried about theocracy,or anything else its up to us to use our rights and guard the limits the constitution imposes on our government so we dont become victoms of tyrants.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
with a long history in congress id like to see what action he has taken that puts fear in an atheist's heart...

being a pastafarian myself i do not fear Dr. Paul forcing me to pray to the majic zombie or his dad.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Lol. We all need something to take the focus off 400x wage disparity.
Another joy of global fascism. Debt serfdom isn't taking the focus off the wage disparity. It's putting it squarely in focus.

The ridiculous wage disparity is a symptom of fascism and debt serfdom.

IMO, pretending that either party has your interests even vaguely in mind is taking you eyes off the ball.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
Never do so many words say so little. Forget practical application. This guy can't get past ideology. I love how he rails that Social Security is unconstitutional yet acknowledges his personal receipt. When Stein asks why Paul doesn't set an example -

Paul takes the "self funded" argument (SS is not part of the debt/deficit.)

Then he teeters on the idea he'll actually save Social Security through military cuts but we all know he's ideologically opposed.

Jesus christ to goddamn mighty hells bells and son-of-a-bitch, you can't make all three arguments.

[youtubeif]06eJsRJT3Vs[/youtubeif]

Ron needs a script. Shooting from the hip comes off like a Gatling on a 360 pivot.
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Lol. We all need something to take the focus off 400x wage disparity.
The Chart That Scares The "1%" The Most
Capitalists have been gripped by 'systemic fear' making them worry not about the day-to-day movements of growth, employment, and profit, but about 'losing their grip'.

An interesting recent article by the Real-World Economics Review on the Asymptotes of Power focuses on the fact that the capitalists are forced to realize that their system may not be eternal, and that it may not survive in its current form. The authors fear that, peering into the future, the '1%' realize that in order to maintain (or further increase) their distributional power (their net profit share of national income - which hovers at record highs) they will have to unleash even greater doses of social 'violence' on the lower classes.

The high level of force already being applied makes them increasingly fearful of the backlash they are about to receive (think Europe to a lesser extent) and nowhere is this relationship between the wealthy capitalists and social upheaval more evident than in the incredible correlation between the Top 10% share of wealth and the percent of the labor force in prison.

In order to have reached the peak level of power it currently enjoys, the ruling class has had to inflict growing threats, sabotage and pain on the underlying population.

20120620_JAILvsWEALTH_0.png


During the 1930s and 1940s, this level proved to be the asymptote of capitalist power: it triggered a systemic crisis, the complete reordering of the U.S. political economy, and a sharp decline in capitalist power, as indicated by the large drop in inequality.
 
Still, I'd feel more comfortable with him at the helm than that sleaze clown Romney. I mean who can relate to this guy who gets a friggin $77,000 tax break on his collection of pretty horses that can trot sideways?!
 

gingerale

Active member
Veteran
Never do so many words say so little. Forget practical application. This guy can't get past ideology. I love how he rails that Social Security is unconstitutional yet acknowledges his personal receipt.

He was forced at gunpoint to give them that money out of his check. He had no choice in the matter. What's wrong or hypocritical about taking part of that money back?

When Stein asks why Paul doesn't set an example -

Stein is a loud-mouthed idiot. Paul refuses his quite-lucrative Congressional pension, and returns any unused funds from his office budget every year. How's that for setting an example?

Paul takes the "self funded" argument (SS is not part of the debt/deficit.)

Sure it is. It's part of the general budget just like everything else. Has been since the 1950s.

Then he teeters on the idea he'll actually save Social Security through military cuts but we all know he's ideologically opposed.

That's not what he said at all. What he said was he'd like to transition away from the program rather than just cutting it out completely. There is no reason to deny all those older people the benefits they have paid for and earned. It would be good to allow the youth to opt out though. The problem with that is, if the youth are allowed to opt out, the whole Ponzi scheme will go bankrupt overnight.

Paul is saying why the hell should we keep spending all this money blowing up people overseas, when we could be using it to help us transition this nation off of the welfare teat and finally do away with these ill conceived socialist programs?

Ron needs a script. Shooting from the hip comes off like a Gatling on a 360 pivot.

He's got an entire web site and multiple books dedicated to his ideas, and they are quite sound and logically explained. I don't see any reason for an informed person to be confused about what he stands for.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
He was forced at gunpoint to give them that money out of his check. He had no choice in the matter. What's wrong or hypocritical about taking part of that money back?



Stein is a loud-mouthed idiot. Paul refuses his quite-lucrative Congressional pension, and returns any unused funds from his office budget every year. How's that for setting an example?

If Ron was ideologically opposed to SS, he might opt to forgo SS checks, not unlike the way he abstains from voting for the district appropriations.................







................. he inserts into national spending bills.


If Ron doesn't ideologically oppose SS, he could use it to scare younguns who don't understand that formulaic adjustments (not the private market) are the answer to the never ending saga of red projections.

Or, he could meander between several positions where the anchor and guests glaze over until the next commercial break.

All this ties in with his fiat money schlemiel where the whole shit house goes up in flames. Trouble is, we're in general electorate territory and that message only resonates with the base. Even Ron knew to stop short of his gold thesis.



Sure it is. It's part of the general budget just like everything else. Has been since the 1950s.
Two words - Alex Jones. :bigeye:

That's not what he said at all. What he said was he'd like to transition away from the program rather than just cutting it out completely.
One problem, he never says transition. He says it's unconstitutional, says he accepts his personal distribution, attempts to inform Stein how SS doesn't add to the deficit and how he'll cut military so he won't have to hit social spending.

Second problem, most of that shit's sentence fragments. A calm Ron delivers the stump, i.e. same old broken record since 1937. A slightly excited Ron Paul gets the hodgepodge of all the things he thinks about, extruded through a worm press - all at once.

There is no reason to deny all those older people the benefits they have paid for and earned. It would be good to allow the youth to opt out though. The problem with that is, if the youth are allowed to opt out, the whole Ponzi scheme will go bankrupt overnight.
'Ponzi' is for the low bars who don't understand that things like distribution adjustments are politically speaking, touchy subjects. They have to be conditioned to believe it's a racket, otherwise they pay too much attention Ren & Stimpy.

The only major shakeup to SS would be to privatize it. Otherwise, we make adjustments that forward the date of solvency. We'll do it again when the time comes. In the meantime, every politician who needs media attention floats a SS turd, among all the other politicized turds in their arsenal.

Paul is saying why the hell should we keep spending all this money blowing up people overseas, when we could be using it to help us transition this nation off of the welfare teat and finally do away with these ill conceived socialist programs?
Your statement ends in a question mark.

He's got an entire web site and multiple books dedicated to his ideas, and they are quite sound and logically explained. I don't see any reason for an informed person to be confused about what he stands for.
Sound like a great first-step for history dropouts. The rest of us have already been there or recognize history - and in some cases, both.
 
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SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Sure it is. It's part of the general budget just like everything else. Has been since the 1950s.
Two words - Alex Jones. :bigeye:
You're right DB, it's not "officially" considered part of the debt/deficit. Kind of like all of the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac toxic worthless debt is not considered not part of the "official" debt/deficit.

Such inconvenient accounting discrepancies would render us insolvent considering upcoming demographic changes.

What good are books when you have two sets?

And this is not an Alex Jones tin foil hat deal.

Socitie General (one of the largest French Banks) ponders these same questions. In other words, "the market", looks past the BS "on book" debt/deficit numbers and considers "off book" liabilities in conjunction with demographics to determine sustainability.

Insolvent.jpg
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
Ron Paul's Route To Convention Chaos: The Vice Presidential Nomination

Jon Ward
Posted: 06/20/2012 7:19 pm Updated: 06/20/2012 9:41 pm

WASHINGTON -- This may be the Ron Paul gambit we've been waiting for.

An obscure rule change made four years ago by the Republican Party has opened the door for Paul forces to cause a major headache for Mitt Romney when he tries to nominate his choice for vice president at the party convention in August.

The Republican National Committee could change Rule 40 in the week leading up to the convention, but that would risk the appearance of jamming Romney's nominee through, and likely cause a subsequent backlash.

Republican officials are still waking up to the fact that Paul loyalists -- who control the majority of delegates in Maine, Minnesota and Iowa, and have sizable contingents in a number of other states -- could very likely enter Paul's name into nomination for vice president. This would force a roll call vote where each delegate of each state is polled on the floor of the convention.

Such a move would transform a symbolic procedure that has taken mere minutes in the past several conventions into a chaotic and time-consuming spectacle that could eat up the better portion of a day.

Not only would such a floor fight step all over the message of party unity and strength that the Romney campaign hopes to drive through the convention, it would also open the door for alternatives to Romney's choice to gain momentum and further drive the process off the rails.

For example, if Romney chose Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) as his vice presidential pick, but the Paul forces leveraged their impressive foothold in several states to nominate Paul from the floor, then someone like Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla) could emerge as the preferred pick for many delegates as the convention goes into a roll call vote. And Rubio's name could be entered into nomination, in addition to Paul's, if a plurality of five states voted to nominate him. Where things would go from there is anybody's guess.

It is the word "plurality" that is key.

On January 17, 2008, eight months before the GOP convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul, the RNC's rules committee changed the process for nominating the presidential nominee or vice presidential nominee, so that instead of requiring a majority of delegates from five states, a candidate needed only a plurality of delegates from five states.

The alteration came during a primary where Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) was competing with Romney, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-Tenn.) and Rep. Paul (R-Texas).

Morton Blackwell, a Republican committee man from Virginia and a veteran of the conservative movement, spearheaded the change during the January 2008 meeting, arguing that if multiple presidential candidates split delegates from a large number of states, then it was possible that no candidate would be able to muster a majority from five states, and the party would be prevented from having a nominee.

Blackwell originally proposed that the number of states be reduced from five to one, according to a source who was at the January meeting but revealed its details on condition of anonymity. But then he altered his amendment, so that it retained the five-state threshold but changed the requirement for each state's support from majority to plurality.

The impact of the rule change on vice presidential nominations was not discussed. The change took effect at the 2008 convention, but it was so overlooked at the time that when McCain was nominated, the chair of the convention used the language referring to his having the support of a majority of five states, instead of a plurality.

Blackwell could not be reached on Wednesday. A secretary at The Leadership Institute, the conservative group he founded in 1979, said he was on vacation all week.

Former New Jersey committeeman David Norcross, who chaired the January 2008 meeting where the rule was originally changed, told The Huffington Post that he did not know why they had changed the rule.

"No question it lowers the bar" for those who want to undermine the choice of the presidential nominee, Norcross said. "I cannot for the life of me figure out why we would lower the bar, why we would want to lower the bar."

Arizona committeeman Bruce Ash, who is currently the chair of the RNC rules committee, also said he was not aware of the change to Rule 40.

"I don't know that this is a concern that has jumped up on to anybody's radar screen," Ash said. "I suppose under the right set of circumstances, there might be some sort of potential competing name. I doubt it."

But there are some in the party who have recently become aware of the Rule 40 situation, and are trying to alert others to its potential for disruption.

Paul supporters have waged an intense and often contentious battle at the state level to win as many delegate spots to the national convention as possible. This has often meant fighting inch-by-inch through every step of the arcane and often confusing processes that each state uses to determine who represents it at the national convention. HuffPost has written extensively, for example, about how this works in Iowa, though each state has its own unique methodology.

A Paul adviser did not respond to a request for comment, but the speculation has been that Paul wants to use his convention strength to gain a prime-time speaking slot or to force changes in the Republican platform, and his campaign has in fact articulated the issues it wants to see prioritized.

Yet, the legitimate prospect of a floor fight has not yet surfaced until now.

And while the change to Rule 40 four years ago from a majority requirement to a plurality requirement also applies to the presidential nomination, it is more relevant to the vice presidential pick. That's because delegates who are bound by state party rules to vote for Romney -- a restriction some are disputing -- are not bound at all on the question of who should be the vice presidential nominee.

There are states, such as Nevada, for example, where Paul supporters have managed to win 22 of 28 delegate spots. Those delegates are bound by state rules to cast their vote on the presidential nominee question for Romney. However, those restrictions don't apply to the vice presidential nominee. Nevada's delegates are therefore free to support whoever they want for vice president.

Thus, in the context of the vice presidential nomination, you can add Nevada to the list of states -- in addition to Minnesota, Iowa and Maine -- where Paul forces control majorities of delegates and would likely support placing Paul's name into nomination for vice president.

This is before you even get to the question of which states might have a plurality of delegates who want to support Paul --or for that matter his son, Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) -- for vice president.
Paul said in a recent statement that all together, he estimates to have about 200 delegates headed to Tampa that are bound to him, with another 300 or so delegates supporting him but bound to Romney. But again, those 300 delegates are bound to Romney only on the question of the presidential nominee, and not on the question who should be the party's vice presidential nominee.

A Romney campaign adviser did not immediately respond to a request for comment, and neither did an RNC spokesman.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...republican-national-convention_n_1613763.html
Not unlike your favorite sweater a friend wants to borrow. One problem, there's a tiny hole in the sleeve. A protagonist won't do anything to exacerbate the hole but the antagonist might unravel the sweater into a pile of yarn.

Anybody see Julian Moore play Sarah Palin? The McCain campaign knew it was only a matter of time before Sarah would go from placating McCain to stepping on his toes.

Romney might have his own Palin.
 

gingerale

Active member
Veteran
If Ron was ideologically opposed to SS, he might opt to forgo SS checks, not unlike the way he abstains from voting for the district appropriations.................

It's clear thinking is not your forte. One person responds with an argument, then you respond with flowery language and veiled insults, none of which contains anything of substance. When I rejoined this thread I remembered there was a resident idiot lurking here, but I had forgotten his name was DiscoBiscuit. This is the last time I ever respond to one of your posts in this thread.
 

gingerale

Active member
Veteran
One problem, he never says transition. He says it's unconstitutional, says he accepts his personal distribution, attempts to inform Stein how SS doesn't add to the deficit and how he'll cut military so he won't have to hit social spending.

Maybe if you spent more time learning to read (or listen), and less talking, you would look like less of a pretentious idiot every time you speak:

“Just as I use the Post office, too, I use government highways, you do that too, I use the banks,” Paul said. “I use the Federal Reserve system, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t work to remove this. In the same way on Social Security, I am trying to make a transition. If I were 20 years old and was offered the chance, I’d jump at it, and the young people are jumping at it because they know this is not solvent.”
 

gingerale

Active member
Veteran
http://communities.washingtontimes..../jun/21/ron-paul-social-security-morning-joe/

TAMPA, June 21 2012 — Ron Paul appeared on MSNBC’s Morning Joe yesterday, giving one of his most succinct criticisms of the Republican Party to date. Host Joe Scarborough had recently endorsed Paul and explained why he had voted for him in his Republican presidential primary.

For most of the segment, the hosts concentrated on Paul’s ideas, policy positions and vision for the future of the party. However, near the end of the segment, Sam Stein decided to ambush Paul on Social Security. After Paul explained his position on letting young people opt out of the program, Stein asked Paul if he collected Social Security payments himself. When Paul replied in the affirmative, Stein implied that Paul was being hypocritical by collecting Social Security payments while asking young people to opt out.

Non sequitur.

Ron Paul’s plan to phase out Social Security does not ask people who have paid into the program to forego the benefits. Those he wants to give the opportunity to opt out would also not be taxed to support Social Security. Perhaps somewhat surprised by the line of inquiry, Paul did not give the best answer he’s ever given to this question. However, he explained it in detail in my own interview with him last year.

Under Paul’s plan, those who have paid into the program would continue to receive the benefits they were promised. The funds not collected from young people who opt out would be raised from savings realized by Paul’s cuts to overseas military spending and elimination of federal departments.

So, Paul is not asking young people to do something that he is not willing to do himself. As he pointed out on Morning Joe, he’s still paying into Social Security right now.

From a strict libertarian perspective, there is a strong argument to be made that even those who have paid into the program have no “right” to collect Social Security payments. After all, the people who would have to pay to support me when I reach retirement age are innocent victims. They did not receive the money that I paid in. That money was spent on the generation before me (and looted for other government boondoggles as well).

In other words, I don’t have a right to steal a young person’s car just because some anonymous older person stole mine in the past. Stripped of “social contract” baloney, there’s really no difference between that and Social Security.

The “trust fund” argument holds no water either. Since the early years of the program, the lawful process for building this “trust fund” has been to replace surpluses with the government’s own bonds. There is only one way to redeem those supposed investments – to tax people in the future, not only for the principal but for interest owed on the loan.

This also raises an interesting question. If a 34-year-old makes a Social Security payment and the government puts any surplus from that payment into a 30-year treasury note, where would the government get the money to redeem the bond when that same person is 64 and ready to collect?

From him, of course. These are the kind of absurdities that occur when theft is legalized.

Ron Paul’s plan does not hold anyone to these strict libertarian standards. That’s probably because voters, no matter how conservative they say they are, aren’t really ready to cut one dollar from the federal budget. If they were, they would have nominated Paul for president instead of Mitt Romney, who will send Congress a $4 trillion federal budget if elected.

The media don’t have to agree with Ron Paul’s positions on the issues, but misrepresenting them this way is cheap pandering to the basest emotions of their audience. Paul may be a lot of things, but one thing he is not is a hypocrite. MSNBC and Morning Joe should admit that they did their audience a disservice by suggesting that he is.
 

bentom187

Active member
Veteran
Foreign and domestic ..... new movie comming soon
[YOUTUBEIF]/TheJoshTolleyChannel[/YOUTUBEIF]

also the movie elektable

[YOUTUBEIF]bdg0fi-9mCs[/YOUTUBEIF]

....and CNBC states we are all slaves to the central bankers finally.

[YOUTUBEIF]FkXJxVHf-ss[/YOUTUBEIF]
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
However, near the end of the segment, Sam Stein decided to ambush Paul on Social Security. After Paul explained his position on letting young people opt out of the program, Stein asked Paul if he collected Social Security payments himself. When Paul replied in the affirmative, Stein implied that Paul was being hypocritical by collecting Social Security payments while asking young people to opt out.
I watched it live. Stein's a pretty meek little fella, hard to imagine him ambushing anything past a wet noodle. A very easily flustered Ron Paul wasn't flustered at all because Ron Paul doesn't see his disposition as hypocritical. Stein made no implications, he merely inquired on Ron's view of setting the examples.

Ron's a millionaire. He's already secure for retirement. That's no suggestion he should reject his Social Security payments as he payed into the system like everybody else. But when advocating the opting-out of Social Security (for kids who haven't yet secured their retirements,) Stein's question was fair.

Run opting-out-of-Social-Security past your grandparents. See what they have to say. Don't forget to tell em 50% of kids under 30 think they'll get rich before they retire. Statistics show this to be woefully inaccurate. Also, 40% of all kids under 30 are unemployed or underemployed and still live with their parents.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
asking RP to forgo the monies he has already payed is somehow relevant to RP asking young people be given the option not to pay in?

nope..

so how does RP "set the example" exactly?
kinda hard to "opt out" for the good doc no?


fishing for duplicity and caught an old boot.
 

DiscoBiscuit

weed fiend
Veteran
asking RP to forgo the monies he has already payed is somehow relevant to RP asking young people be given the option not to pay in?

Yes. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for him?

Asking if he'd consider walking the walk isn't necessarily "asking RP forgo". I mentioned this in the previous post.

so how does RP "set the example" exactly?
kinda hard to "opt out" for the good doc no?
You answered your own question. You also appear to infer he's incapable which probably amounts to speculation.

fishing for duplicity and caught an old boot.
IMO, that describes Ron fairly well.

Ron's a gold hawk on television but reality suggests his target is paper.

BTW, duplicity is your word. I wouldn't credit Ron with being duplicitous which might he's capable of killing two birds with one stone. Considering everything we know, I'd call him surreptitious. I even typed as much here in black and white. Stick to the script.
 
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