Why all the hate with Autoflowers?

Elmer Bud said:

G`day Pinkus

The Scandinavians are way ahead of that .
They used Nepalese and Lebanese genes to create photo sensitive plants that will flower at 14 - 15 hours of light .

Last year I saw a bunch of people grow Short Term Amnesia . A Sat dom hybrid thats done in 100 days summer or Autumn .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

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Sweet.

@agito, CBD is the one thing i could give as a reason to use rudy. I believe it's prevalent in hemp lines though.

One mexican plant outside makes your yield claims untenable... Yes you can grow a large quantity of weed with a huge number of plants, meaning large number of seeds, germinations etc. yes, it's possible. yes. 100% doable repeatable and all that. would I choose to do it that way? NO way! It's a great way to fill gaps. I may do it some day. Probably not. If somebody gives me some weed that tastes and smokes like Columbian from youth, and then says "surprise!!! Ruderalis! Gottcha!!".(and it's true) then. I'll put some in my window box and eat my hat.


I'll smoke/laugh myself to sleep tonight thinking of your field of autos to my tree

I let a link with a nice thread about ruderalis in central europe.

Nice pics really:

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/7-plants-plant-extracts/4634-cannabis-ruderalis-czech-republic.html

^^^ if that is truly a ruderalis stand and has any qualities they want for smoking great. Everything i'd heard suggested that there was no use reported, and no samples had any active ingredients. If it's good, it's fair game. I wonder what the new RC clark book says about this?

Spasticity

Spasticity

harry74 said:

I let a link with a nice thread about ruderalis in central europe.

Nice pics really:

http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/7-plants-plant-extracts/4634-cannabis-ruderalis-czech-republic.html

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G`day Harry

Nice link . I remember the OP saying he has spasticity of his muscles .
The Hemp when made into bubble relieved the tension in his muscles and gave him better quality of life .

Now I think about it there is a strain named Pekhuruder that they grow in Scandinavia that apparently has Siberian hemp in its lineage .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

Yes the pics are nice.

I was quite surprised about the height of some of the plants.

pinkus said:

however once legalization happens there will be much less need for stealth and speed.

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It may be true that today's "bootleggers" would become more productive if they could operate legally. But, legalization will bring "ordinary" people into growing for their personal use. An auto would be perfect for casual home growers.

- Small size makes it suitable for small, space-saving boxes or tents.
- Small lighting because low penetration is required.
- Tolerance to light during dark period.
- Finishes at a pace that keeps a distracted grower from getting bored. Doesn't require a lot of thought to switch veg to flower. (Just notice the change and switch nutes.).

The autos insensitivity to light makes for an interesting, small-scale perpetual grow. Five plants in a 4x4 tent. Harvest one every three weeks, adding a new seedling.

You can't do that with photos. You need two 2x4 tents. Two fans. And, because of the segregation of space, you can't fit that fifth plant in the middle.

So... I think "efficiency" has different definitions. For some, it's cost per gram, potency per gram. For others it's about how well a grow fits their lifestyle, available space, etc.

I think it would be great to have a plant or two on the porch, under a street light that would bloom despite being saturated with light 24/0. Cool. They do have uses.

I actually like to keep plants around. That's a big deal to me.

az2000 said:

It may be true that today's "bootleggers" would become more productive if they could operate legally. But, legalization will bring "ordinary" people into growing for their personal use. An auto would be perfect for casual home growers.

- Small size makes it suitable for small, space-saving boxes or tents.
- Small lighting because low penetration is required.
- Tolerance to light during dark period.
- Finishes at a pace that keeps a distracted grower from getting bored. Doesn't require a lot of thought to switch veg to flower. (Just notice the change and switch nutes.).

The autos insensitivity to light makes for an interesting, small-scale perpetual grow. Five plants in a 4x4 tent. Harvest one every three weeks, adding a new seedling.

You can't do that with photos. You need two 2x4 tents. Two fans. And, because of the segregation of space, you can't fit that fifth plant in the middle.

So... I think "efficiency" has different definitions. For some, it's cost per gram, potency per gram. For others it's about how well a grow fits their lifestyle, available space, etc.

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Like the Rodney King quote- "Can't we all get along".

Different strokes, for different folks.

If you can grow legal, and have great sun, and weather, go for massive Photo's outdoors, especially if quota's.

For tight indoor, trying to maximize lighting, AF's may be better.

Large outdoor would be best photo, since quantity of plants, effects penalties, most places.

Best Wishes to all!!!!

5min...all questions are rhetoric..

All relative, all subjective and according to the forum, the current advantage of AF outweighs the disadvantages. Complications occur when one wants to try something else, which in that case, CANNOT be seen as under "normal" circumstances.

So how do you expect everyone else that isn't trying to be a green shrub scientist to be dissatisfied with the attributes you are dissatisfied with when you don't have the same intentions or seeking the same result? or vice-versa

Its important to consider the context of a scenario and perspective.
You cant learn if you don't want to allow yourself to, you also cant listen if you only have the desire to talk...

lastly you cant make em love something they don't.

to each his own.... thanks to all that gave non ignorant answers. Really unnecessary to drag a question like, does ruderalis have THC.. dude! let me tell you something,

We here in africa, have only ruderalis and sativas to smoke as dirt weed, sometimes its good sometimes its shit and most times back then it was SUPER SHIT (specially once you've been outside the continent and have been blessed with the taste of the indica-sensi). usually you can tell when its got indica influence, but back in the day circa 2004 and further, sativa, when it came in top form had red hairs, and it would grow wild in some areas and ruderalis would be smaller plants and have red hairs but much more stalky, thinner and finer hairs. They literally look like old charles darwin ruderalis depictions if you know what i mean, and brother, when you got top wild sativa or rudy, you weren't going anywhere that day or doing anything with machinery! ITS A HEAVY HEAD high, ruderalis i agree perhaps not as strong as sativa but i guarantee you that it had enough THC to boggle minds naturally!

Dont tell me ruderalis had thc introduced. the most rubbish global claim i have read on here.

have you witnessed a wild ganja plant grow from seedling to TREE in wild without human influence?? i have, mad sativas and ruderalis, all over northern area of my country. My own grandma once had tree pop up at her house in the rural area, and when i asked her about it she didn't call it the name they call sativa, she called it something else which i later discovered was the 3rd, the Rudy.. why its called the 3rd am not sure, why indica is the first am not sure, why sativa is being sought after am not sure, why land-races are being sought after am not sure.... think consumerism and human tendencies within each culture tend to do this. African cultures understand and interpret such things much more with a sense of bio-mimicry. The rudy was usually used as a tea, while the sativa was smoked by the smoking men my grandma said. Asked her how the plant came there and she said could be birds, could be pigs, could be air, could be chickens, etc....

think nature.

Super. Thanks. Bye

Safety

Get out the cocoon

oh yea... i totally agree with the guy that said it (rudy) has high CBD! hence the tea... now think, how did my people know without taking in for cannaltics test..pshh

Loc Dog said:

Exactly, in CA or Oregon there are quota's on plants. Grow one massive photo outdoors, will do more than 10 AF's. Outdoors, they would not get the 20 hours a day they want, and indoors, it is additional light cost.

The best environment, in my opinion, for AF's, is greenhouse, with supplemental lighting, at night.

An AF, will never be as strong as a photo, of same genetics, grown under same conditions. Highest rated AF is 18%, and highest rated photo is 25%, due to Ruderalis.

Again, I would like to see more testing, since it is so cheap. 4-5 test's can be done on same card, at a time.

Best wishes to all!!!

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Sorry but that is nonsense. There are only one or two genes that cause a plant to autoflower. They dont affect potency. Pure ruderalis is to me the same as hemp and look what potent drug strains were created out of those over thousands of years.
The more generations we are removed from the rudi ancestors the more potent they will become. As long as breeders dont cross auto with auto to make new strains, that is lazy bullshit. Cross auto with potent photo and inbreed for 3 gens, repeat. It takes more work than 99% of seeds that are on the market but the results are great.
Last year i grew lowryder2 and easy rider and was impressed by the potency. Those are only two generations removed. Been getting high on the leaves for over a month now.
For outdoor growing above 40-50degrees north they have huge potential. They will be more potent and aromatic than any strain finishing end september or later simply because they have more light hours and heat when finishing.
If you have a heated greenhouse with supplemental lighting it would be a waste to grow auto's as you might as well grow any photo plant, and let them become huge.

Now we just need more breeders that stabilize the strains rather than hybridizing over and over. Preferably with sativa dom. strains. Oh how I dream of a 95%+ pure auto ssh, growing to 2 meters and yielding indoor quality buds by september 1st.

Interesting read thanks.

sprinkl said:

Sorry but that is nonsense. There are only one or two genes that cause a plant to autoflower. They dont affect potency. Pure ruderalis is to me the same as hemp and look what potent drug strains were created out of those over thousands of years.
The more generations we are removed from the rudi ancestors the more potent they will become. As long as breeders dont cross auto with auto to make new strains, that is lazy bullshit. Cross auto with potent photo and inbreed for 3 gens, repeat. It takes more work than 99% of seeds that are on the market but the results are great.
Last year i grew lowryder2 and easy rider and was impressed by the potency. Those are only two generations removed. Been getting high on the leaves for over a month now.
For outdoor growing above 40-50degrees north they have huge potential. They will be more potent and aromatic than any strain finishing end september or later simply because they have more light hours and heat when finishing.
If you have a heated greenhouse with supplemental lighting it would be a waste to grow auto's as you might as well grow any photo plant, and let them become huge.

Now we just need more breeders that stabilize the strains rather than hybridizing over and over. Preferably with sativa dom. strains. Oh how I dream of a 95%+ pure auto ssh, growing to 2 meters and yielding indoor quality buds by september 1st.

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Now why would you prefere Stabilising Auto's over Hybridising them?

Lemme tell you this: Stabilising them is the biggest pain in the ass to do with Auto's, not to mention how much time of your life you need to put in that, and how total fucking boring this all is.

Thousands upon thousands of plants, separation of plots to avoid direct inbreds, all to select just a few to make any progress and again and again with no any real significance at moving forwards?
I'm sure you would want breeders to do that for ya. Lol

But to achieve exactly what?... Because you have this lill fancy going on?

I repeat, for what?

Hybridising any time mate.^^

And what are your arguments to why this would be second to Stabillising?

PS: It's just the last 3 lines of your post that don't wanna strike with me, all else I happen to agree.

outhereinthesun said:

We here in africa, have only ruderalis and sativas to smoke as dirt weed

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Africa AFAIK, has NO ruderalis... it's more a siberian type of thing. In the OLD terminology it would be Sativas and Indicas, but no rudies. THis is from the old RCC marijuana botany tome, but I betting it hasn't changed.

One of the things about autos few consider is planting them outdoors with photo varieties, alternating them in rows. It allows for closer planting & two harvests per season. When the autoflowers mature & are harvested, that's just in time to give the photo variety the room it needs to spread out into flower. It's like intercropping of veggies that home gardeners do all the time.

offthehook said:

Now why would you prefere Stabilising Auto's over Hybridising them?

Lemme tell you this: Stabilising them is the biggest pain in the ass to do with Auto's, not to mention how much time of your life you need to put in that, and how total fucking boring this all is.

Thousands upon thousands of plants, separation of plots to avoid direct inbreds, all to select just a few to make any progress and again and again with no any real significance at moving forwards?
I'm sure you would want breeders to do that for ya. Lol

But to achieve exactly what?... Because you have this lill fancy going on?
H
I repeat, for what?

Hybridising any time mate.^^

And what are your arguments to why this would be second to Stabillising?

PS: It's just the last 3 lines of your post that don't wanna strike with me, all else I happen to agree.

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Well I'm thinking inbreeding, repeatedly crossing the photo plant with its stabilized f3 auto version. Why? Because then you would have a stable strain, from which you could easily make seeds with the same results. And then you could also make true f1 hybrids with other plants with a stable, predictable outcome rather than a bunch of recessive expressions popping up all over the place. All the greatest crosses are made with stable or inbred genes, think skunk, haze, afghan, kush, c99, deepchunk etc. All that polyhybrid mishmash isnt getting us anywhere unless you're up for some extensive pheno hunting, which is no option for auto's. I'm not saying there aren't any gems to be found in poly crosses, rather that gems could be the norm from every seed you pop.

pinkus said:

Africa AFAIK, has NO ruderalis... it's more a siberian type of thing. In the OLD terminology it would be Sativas and Indicas, but no rudies. THis is from the old RCC marijuana botany tome, but I betting it hasn't changed.

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Lowryder was created with mexican ruderalis. I believe all landraces have rudi in them hidden somewhere. If you look at huge fields like in strainhunters vids there are always extremes to be found, from very sativa to very indica and ruderalis. Its just the environment that makes sativas dominate in tropical, indica in temperate and ruderalis in northern latitudes because they are more fit.

This time I almost fully agree Sprinkle But just please don't come generally dishing the poly hybrids. Trust me, they sure have got their place ! ^^

Now we only need to find this monkey in the right position and who wants to dedicate 10+ years of his life into it

If people could only share seeds publicly with each other we could team up and make this task a bit more appealing

pinkus said:

How does Ruderalis add potency to a photoperiod oriented plant? I can't wait to hear this explanation.

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Hello Pinkus, I hope you don't mind me sharing my opinions regarding your post.

When most people think of Cannabis potency, THC levels are obviously what is used as a standard measure. I think it is misleading to only judge a plants potency strictly on THC level.

I know from my own personal research that C. Ruderalis does in fact contain minute amounts of THC. Maybe 1-5% at best.

Also, let us not forget that THC is not the only Cannabanoid that determines the kind of high we get.

I had pure 100% THC injected straight into my blood stream though an IV once many years ago...long story, paid research....But let me tell you, I thought I was going psychotic. It is not a fun high and is absolutely terrifying without the other Cannabanoids (CBD/CBN/etc) present.

It is well known by now that CBD/CBN all have a direct influence on the kind of high/potency we achieve in conjunction with THC.

CBD can help with anxiety/paranoia/insomnia/pain managment/etc and it also helps you feel relaxed/calm compared to injecting pure THC or a pure Sativa variant (high THC/THC-A; low CBD/CBN).

CBN is semi-psychoactive with 10% of the stregnth of THC/helps reduce blood pressure/has anti-depressant properties/etc.

C. Ruderalis is know to have high amounts CBD/CBN which, IMHO, is a great way to get high when crossed with a high THC photo strain.

It, in my opinion, adds personality to the high. Some people want to get that racy/speedy high. Great, go smoke an African strain. Some people want a balanced high with proportionate amounts of a full Cannabanoid profile.

I dunno, I just took some huge hits off a gravity bong so my mind is all over the place.

pinkus said:

Africa AFAIK, has NO ruderalis... it's more a siberian type of thing. In the OLD terminology it would be Sativas and Indicas, but no rudies. THis is from the old RCC marijuana botany tome, but I betting it hasn't changed.

Click to expand...

In Nigeria, there is a landrace African IBL variety that will flower under 18 hours of light.

sprinkl said:

Sorry but that is nonsense. There are only one or two genes that cause a plant to autoflower. They dont affect potency. Pure ruderalis is to me the same as hemp and look what potent drug strains were created out of those over thousands of years.
The more generations we are removed from the rudi ancestors the more potent they will become. As long as breeders dont cross auto with auto to make new strains, that is lazy bullshit. Cross auto with potent photo and inbreed for 3 gens, repeat. It takes more work than 99% of seeds that are on the market but the results are great.
Last year i grew lowryder2 and easy rider and was impressed by the potency. Those are only two generations removed. Been getting high on the leaves for over a month now.
For outdoor growing above 40-50degrees north they have huge potential. They will be more potent and aromatic than any strain finishing end september or later simply because they have more light hours and heat when finishing.
If you have a heated greenhouse with supplemental lighting it would be a waste to grow auto's as you might as well grow any photo plant, and let them become huge.

Now we just need more breeders that stabilize the strains rather than hybridizing over and over. Preferably with sativa dom. strains. Oh how I dream of a 95%+ pure auto ssh, growing to 2 meters and yielding indoor quality buds by september 1st.

Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but to suggest they have no effect on potency is actually suggesting more than we really know about them at this point as far as I'm aware. But assuming you are correct, and it's not an unreasonable assumption - there are around 22,000 base pairs in a cannabis plant and presumably quite a few of those are going to effect potency and other desirable or undesirable characteristics.

To think a breeder, who most likely at best is growing a few thousand plants (and that's being super super generous these days with prohibition being what it is) - can successfully segregate these genes without effecting the potency on some level seems a bit unlikely.

To do what autoflower lovers claim is possible and has already been done will require growing millions of plants. That's just the math of it. Do you know any breeders growing millions of plants?

More likely is someone will 'get lucky' and find one plant something close and that line will be used for further breeding and eventually inbreeding depression and other negative recessive traits will show themselves... that's best case I see in the current situation and lord knows where it will come from.

It took thousands of years of breeding by humans to get our drug varieties where they are today. People forget that often indigenous people did a huge amount of selection and it took a really long time for their lines to become the potent drug cultivars they have become.

Realistically autoflowering plants will certainly improve and get closer to their photo counterparts (which largely drug cultivars were/are), but in the current legal climate I don't see them ever actually competing for those looking to get high.

Therapeutically I think they have a lot more potential value.

I've grown quite a few of them, including some of the latest and none really impressed me for my own preferences, but I don't doubt they are useful to others.

me personally I spent over 800$ on auto seeds.. grew them all .. and made a few seeds with them.. but none yielded DICK.. but this was 2 years ago.. and I said to myself.. id rather find a fast flowering photo.. then a big yielding auto.. the auto game is great for breeders.. they sell wayyy more seeds to the same people over and over again once someone finds a auto they like.