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Old 01-28-2015, 09:07 PM #31
DJM
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Originally Posted by stoned40yrs View Post
Best root porn I've seen on here! I find it amazing you can feed them 850ppm/6 times a day with no runoff and not get salt buildup. Do you use drip clean?
thanks man..no, im not a fan of drip clean..i used it before but don't dig it..im ocd when it comes to monitoring and testing ingoing water and run off..that has gave me a very confident understanding of how to counter act salt build up in my medium..imo DC is just a bandage for improper feeding, watering techniques and monitoring .. there is no substitute for understanding your medium, what goes it and what comes out

yeah it may sound crazy that feeding 6 times a day will create no salt build up ...seems counter intuitive ,but ill explain why that is the case...when water travels through the medium, its contained in its vessel of water..as that water dries within the medium, the salt looses its vessel of water and becomes trapped in the medium, leading to salt build up...allowing the medium to try out even slighty, creates spikes of ec/ppm in the medium...keeping the medium moist at all times does not...the first grow I posted, I feed the same amount of water to each plant, except I did 3-4 times a day..with this the medium did dry out slighty, making salt build up an issue and run off necessary...however when bumping the feedings up to 6x a day, the medium is always wet and salt build up is not an issue as the nutrients are always contained it that vessel of water...ive been monitoring the run off every 3 weeks, pouring extra feed through one of the pots to give me just enough run off to test..after week 5 of feeding 6x a day, my runoff tested at 925ppms, when it had never seen higher than 850ppms..last week the reading was 928..so only 75ppms of build up after 42 days of flower and a 3 week pre veg...that amount is a non issue...I aim to keep run off under 1000ppms in any medium or scenario..by flush im expecting it to be in the high 900s

its all about keeping the medium wet...when I grew in wool I used wet and dry cycles and only fed at 700ppms..salt build up would spike during each dry cycle and rise as much as 300ppms per week..i gave plain phd water every 4th feed to counter act that spike..feed strength, run off, water to air ratio in the medium all play crucial parts in a stable medium and the presence of salt build up..i wouldn't feed at 850 ppms if I was letting my medium dry, in that scenario id max out at 700 like I use to...its a delicate dance playing all the elements against eachother...people cant feed high successfully in coco because they are letting the medium dry out.. a lot of hearsay around the subject, some say dry it , some say don't.. I trust my eyes and meters...and imo if you are not feeding coco atleast 4 times a day, you are not unlocking the true capablitites in coco..the more you feed the wetter the medium..wetter the medium the higher you can feed and more nutrients they can absorb, leading to faster growth and a much more stable medium,,,ive tried water every other day, everyday, twice a day, 3, 4, 5, 6...the more I feed, the better results..so much so that i may go up to one feed every hour next run

with that said, multifeeds only work with A. an undersized rootbound pot and B. a thriving and thick root mass...if you throw and under developed root system in too big of a pot and try it , its a recipe for disaster...roots need dry cycles to thrive and expand...once root bound is when you want to start multifeeding...during early veg I use a wet and dry cycle and only start muti feeds in the final container...I do this to encourage dense roots mass as the dry cycle make the roots branch out in search of water...keeping them wet early on will not and will retard root growth ..once in final containers I start 2x a day and bump up as necessary to keep the medium wet...by flip im running 6x a day...this is with pure coco..if cut with enough perlite, once could multifeed from the jump with similar results

a lot more than what you asked but wanting to address the subject and variables for others interested..hope that helps some people out there get a better understanding of their medium and the elements that effect its stability
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:10 PM #32
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looking good DJM! how many weeks do you veg them trees before flower?
thank you for the first post..i veg for 9 weeks, two of which are under main lights. I take cuts the day before I flower..by the time I chop, plants are ready to move in , veg 2 weeks and flip again..so only 2 weeks of downtime between cycles..no different than a sog, except you can sleep at night with a low plant count
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:11 PM #33
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thanks teemu, and anyone else I forgot to thank.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:45 PM #34
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Beautiful grow! A few questions if you don't mind....... What strains ya running? What type of veg light before the final 2 weeks in the big room? How many times are you topping those girls?
Keep up the great work!!!!
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:11 PM #35
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Just lovely, really nice technique that clearly works amazingly well for you. Like you, I have always been somewhat dubious of the need to drip clean, it does seem as though it's a cop out for not growing properly.
It's interesting to note that you use this technique on root bound plants, I am never sure of how much root I have, but they are regularly "flushed" by the movement of very well oxidised water, this also means that, like you, I never get a salt build up due to the almost constant water movement.
Later on in flower, I just leave the feed on all the while the lights are on. I think this gives nutrient to the roots on demand, they don't need to go "searching" for it. I have taken this from dwc, and thus far, it seems to work well.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:59 PM #36
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Very very nice grow. Your plants obviously love what you are doing.
I must say..... those are some of the most amazing root pics I have ever seen. Cloning is my kryptonite. Tried at least 4 methods in the past 4 months. You've got to be some type of 'root whisperer' or some shit, lol. Hopefully I can learn a lil somethin somethin.



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The purpose was to metaphorically stack the deck with the best possible hand in the plants corner, so when we simply mimic rain, the plant can go all in.

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Old 01-29-2015, 02:01 PM #37
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Hey man we are attempting the same thing now. Got a few girls in 50/50 coco perlite rootbound in 5 gal mesh pots. So far so good never letting the medium dry out and getting run off each wAtering.

Just wondering how you run your bloom booster, do you just add it on top of your base to get your desired ppm?



Oh and amazing grow, inspiring stuff.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:06 PM #38
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yeah basically just tell us all about your cloning technique and environment. nutritional needs are connected with how much the plant needs to cool itself. i'm wondering what kind of VPD you run at various times, and whether you are hanging onto veg nutes through stretch, and would be grateful if you'd share. very very inspiring roots.
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:27 PM #39
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Originally Posted by wiggleworm1980 View Post
Beautiful grow! A few questions if you don't mind....... What strains ya running? What type of veg light before the final 2 weeks in the big room? How many times are you topping those girls?
Keep up the great work!!!!
I run mostly cuts that I selected myself from seed, for the sole purpose of tree growing...not many strains adapt to tree style well..when you bush a plant out, many times they wont throw large colas on all branches, but instead distribute the weight among smaller tops...I did a larger 12 strain seed run 2 summers ago and selected 6 keepers that are made for tree growing...I run mostly those 6

however the first run was a mix of stuff that friends and myself had selected...headwreck, long bottom leaf, ultra sonia, traiwreck, and la kush x killer chem ..the second run posted is half jack flash and half my selection of purple cream which is sr71pk x Appalachia x straw bream by bohdi...its an un-named cross of his so I named it
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:32 PM #40
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Originally Posted by Baron Greenback View Post
Just lovely, really nice technique that clearly works amazingly well for you. Like you, I have always been somewhat dubious of the need to drip clean, it does seem as though it's a cop out for not growing properly.
It's interesting to note that you use this technique on root bound plants, I am never sure of how much root I have, but they are regularly "flushed" by the movement of very well oxidised water, this also means that, like you, I never get a salt build up due to the almost constant water movement.
Later on in flower, I just leave the feed on all the while the lights are on. I think this gives nutrient to the roots on demand, they don't need to go "searching" for it. I have taken this from dwc, and thus far, it seems to work well.
thank you..i agree..the more nutrients you give a plant by feeding , the more it can absorb and ironically enough the more oxugen they get...the only way to starve a plant of oxygen is not watering enough..as counterintuitive as that sounds its very true..another reason im not getting salt build up, is the fact that I have such large plants in small containers..each plant is over 6 feet tall and a sq yard in diameter...big trees eat a lot..any excess salts in the medium are quickly consumed by the plant...if I ran the same size plant in a 15 gal, salt build up would be inevitable because the plant wouldn't uptake it fast enough to counter act ppm/ec spikes
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