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New way of feminizing?
- Thread starter Guy Brush
- Start date
Yall really think it's as simple as a wetting agent?
I'm curious as to the thoughts behind this idea?
Plants aren't naturally hydrophobic & foliar feeds are uptaken very quickly... Like within minutes! So the wetting agent idea kinda has me stumped.
Also, if considering a wetting agent, wouldn't Aloe be one of the easiest to source?
I'm listening though.
I've got one idea, based on a blog I've been reading.
In the blog, they keep using acids mixed w their foliars to increase the uptake of the foliar fed minerals.
Are you folks aware that foliar feeding can be 12X more efficient that feeding through the roots?
These acids are the "keys" that open the doors.
I'm curious as to the thoughts behind this idea?
Plants aren't naturally hydrophobic & foliar feeds are uptaken very quickly... Like within minutes! So the wetting agent idea kinda has me stumped.
Also, if considering a wetting agent, wouldn't Aloe be one of the easiest to source?
I'm listening though.
I've got one idea, based on a blog I've been reading.
In the blog, they keep using acids mixed w their foliars to increase the uptake of the foliar fed minerals.
Are you folks aware that foliar feeding can be 12X more efficient that feeding through the roots?
These acids are the "keys" that open the doors.
Natural high
Member
The plant's waxy cuticle is quite hydrophobic and covers most of the upper leaves, shoots and stems. This, combined with fine microscopic hairs, is designed to waterproof the plant and prevent desiccation. A wetting agent breaks the surface tension so that droplets spread out readily instead of just rolling off. Using a surfactant does risk damaging the cuticle though.
no idea if the improved STS the OP is about is due to a wetting agent, but regardless I do think a wetting agent could be an improvement. even if it's just the ease of application(similar to adding flour to pollen, it doesn't increase the activity of the pollen as far as I know, but makes it much easier to handle, doesn't fly everywhere with just 1 breath).
btw, why are you saying plants aren't hydrophobic? the surface of leaves definitely is, you can see the raindrops rolling off in the rain, I also notice it while applying STS with a pipette. I have to do a bit of effort to get the drop balancing on a bud, and not make it too big, or it'll just roll off.
I think with a wetting agent I could apply it quicker, easier and have better coverage of the buds.
edit:
theory about the improved way of feminizing, maybe it's STS+GA3? I have to look into it some more, but on a quick search I found mentions that GA3 is involved in pollenproduction(quickly read trough the abstract of a paper looking at GA3-insensitive mutants in rice, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217639/) also, I've read about it here as alternatrive feminizing spray, so possibly combining it with sts yields better results as either alone? sts to block female expression, GA3 to stimulate male expression, leading to more viable pollen(and maybe better opening flowers) as sts alone?
btw, why are you saying plants aren't hydrophobic? the surface of leaves definitely is, you can see the raindrops rolling off in the rain, I also notice it while applying STS with a pipette. I have to do a bit of effort to get the drop balancing on a bud, and not make it too big, or it'll just roll off.
I think with a wetting agent I could apply it quicker, easier and have better coverage of the buds.
edit:
theory about the improved way of feminizing, maybe it's STS+GA3? I have to look into it some more, but on a quick search I found mentions that GA3 is involved in pollenproduction(quickly read trough the abstract of a paper looking at GA3-insensitive mutants in rice, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217639/) also, I've read about it here as alternatrive feminizing spray, so possibly combining it with sts yields better results as either alone? sts to block female expression, GA3 to stimulate male expression, leading to more viable pollen(and maybe better opening flowers) as sts alone?
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I would think the complex with thiosulphate already fulfills that function, so that doesn't sound likely to me.
Good thread by reeferman showing conversion rates for pentahydrate.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=308085
Never failed to reverse a plant with this formula.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=308085
Never failed to reverse a plant with this formula.
Oh yeah nice ! And that's it
Sam the skunkman said: " A surfactant like Tween-80 helps, a drop per liter. STS action is strongly enhanced when a surfactant is added to the solution. "
Table for both sodium thiosulfate types:
I have all I wanted I think, I have just to re-check the dilution rates a little bit . And then I will go with experimentation after next crop, that's the best school
. Thanks anyway !
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Was following the STS thread quoted and ran across this, from Sam...
And this, from Charles-Scott...SamKingofSkunk said:
Charles-scott said:
So, don't give up hope and keep trying.
Save
coot said to use yucca as surficant iirc
I knew I read it before. Good to read again. Nothing is carved in stone. Try and experiment! And yes, use a wetting agent.
I'm not so sure, djonkman.
I don't think thiosulphate is a chelating agent so not so sure that humic or fulvic acid wouldn't help with the absorption of STS.
But...
Maybe a surfactant is the answer Chi was eluding to. The knowledge, however, does not fall into the proprietary category, if this is the case, as it has been passed freely for the world to see.
Natural high
Member
PM me for my method for preparation of Silver thiosulphate (STS).
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Why protect the roots? And you only spray the shoots, not the leaves?
Natural high
Member
The STS can cause considerable damage to the leaves and cause overall stunting in the plant, so applying it only where necessary minimizes these undesirable effects. Eythene is a plant hormone with numerous important functions within the plant, and blocking it via root application would have an overall detrimental effect on the plant.
I have sprayed just the top bud of one branch of a plant four weeks into flower and had it produce viable male flowers and pollen about 10 days later. This effect moved down that branch slowly and after about three to four weeks there were a some flowers about 12-18 inches down from the sprayed bud.
Cheers
The STS can cause considerable damage to the leaves and cause overall stunting in the plant, so applying it only where necessary minimizes these undesirable effects. Eythene is a plant hormone with numerous important functions within the plant, and blocking it via root application would have an overall detrimental effect on the plant.
I have sprayed just the top bud of one branch of a plant four weeks into flower and had it produce viable male flowers and pollen about 10 days later. This effect moved down that branch slowly and after about three to four weeks there were a some flowers about 12-18 inches down from the sprayed bud.
Cheers
Very interesting! How does it go together with the use of a wetting agent? Do you use any? I was just about to believe it's cool to wet the whole plant like there's no tomorrow.
There is technique to reverse plant whithouth any chems and STS...
but you need to answer 3 questions to understand what you wish to achive and why it happends..
1.Where in a plant a flowering hormone develops??
2.In what time this hormone develops??
3.What is happening if we remove this hormone in right time??
If you know answer on this questions than you will know to reverse your plants
whithouth STS and other chems and this kind of produced fem seeds are much
more stabile than those produced with STS.
but you need to answer 3 questions to understand what you wish to achive and why it happends..
1.Where in a plant a flowering hormone develops??
2.In what time this hormone develops??
3.What is happening if we remove this hormone in right time??
If you know answer on this questions than you will know to reverse your plants
whithouth STS and other chems and this kind of produced fem seeds are much
more stabile than those produced with STS.
Sounds intriguing Dog Star!
Do you by any chance know the answer to these question and are you willing to share your knowledge ?
F.Ex. how would you remove the hormone at the right time in a living plant without chemicals? This is exactly what CS does if I#m not mistaken ?
cheers,
CC
Natural high
Member
1. The elusive Florigen, which is produced in the leaves and signals the apical meristem to flower via an unknown mechanism.
2. Flowering in short-day plants is triggered when the plant experiences a number of successive long nights without light interruption.
3. Remove the leaves just before flowering is triggered?
Please explain how this will induce a female plant to make male flowers?
Regarding the stability of plants reversed using chemicals, crosses made from females reversed using chemicals (silver, GA3 etc) will inherit the same genetic stability of the parents. It is no different than crossing a male with a female.
