Pheno hunt in a 30 gal. No till?

Holderchert · Jul 20, 2020

Hello all,

Forgive me please if this seems redundant, I'm very new to the forum and haven't had any luck with the search engine. Also still quite a no till greenhorn.

For my next grow I was hoping to do some pheno hunting with some landrace seeds I've aquired. I'm wondering how this would work out in a 30 gal. no till fabric pot? I've seen a few people ( here:https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=357140 is one example, where member Land is doing exceptional work) doing pheno hunts small scale in one or half gallon containers to keep the plants small and manageable. I have limited space and have no where to store my no till pot so I'm hoping I can just plant around 6-8 plants (tight, I know) in there without too much issue.

Would the close quarters cause any detrimental issues (competition, etc.)? Any opinions and advice would be very appreciated...This forum is incredible, I look forward to spending more time here.

Take it easy,
HC

St. Phatty · Jul 20, 2020

Holderchert said:
For my next grow I was hoping to do some pheno hunting with some landrace seeds I've aquired. I'm wondering how this would work out in a 30 gal. no till fabric pot?

that's a big pot.

make it 7 plants, 1 in the center and 6 around it, and you create sort of a honeycomb outline.

anyway they would have good root space unless 1 of them Supergrows and crowds the other.

Microbeman · Jul 20, 2020

I must admit to ignorance of the term phenol hunt but that number of plants should do fine in that volume. Knowing the diameter would be helpful..

No-till really has more to do with subsequent plantings.

Holderchert · Jul 21, 2020

St. Phatty: It is. It takes up an entire 2x2.5, but much smaller than many of the no till grows I've seen around online. I think the minimum effective pot size for no till is 10 gal. Many people work with 100 gal+.

Microbeman: Sorry, pheno refers to phenotype. It's the physical expression of a plants genetics. As in bud size, color smell, plant growth speed and height etc. The seeds I'm working with are very genetically diverse so some will not be worth going to seed with. The pot is ~24" in diameter and 16" deep.

So I guess my main concern is that they would compete for root space. I've read on one blog that this may not be the case. Here is the link:

https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/plant-growth-comparison-of-cannabis-sativa

Do you guys, or anyone else, have personal experience growing a few (maybe 7) plants together in a small space?

Much appreciated,

HC

Microbeman · Jul 21, 2020

Holderchert said:
St. Phatty: It is. It takes up an entire 2x2.5, but much smaller than many of the no till grows I've seen around online. I think the minimum effective pot size for no till is 10 gal. Many people work with 100 gal+.

Microbeman: Sorry, pheno refers to phenotype. It's the physical expression of a plants genetics. As in bud size, color smell, plant growth speed and height etc. The seeds I'm working with are very genetically diverse so some will not be worth going to seed with. The pot is ~24" in diameter and 16" deep.

So I guess my main concern is that they would compete for root space. I've read on one blog that this may not be the case. Here is the link:

https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/plant-growth-comparison-of-cannabis-sativa

Do you guys, or anyone else, have personal experience growing a few (maybe 7) plants together in a small space?

Much appreciated,

HC

I know what pheno refers to but not the term pheno hunt.
I invented notil indoor putting plants proximally planted.

Depending on your purpose so far as plant size, photoperiod etc. you can plant them equally spaced successfully.
As I said notil is more about subsequent planting.

If you plant to eliminate some undesirables and get seeds from one, no problem

Holderchert · Jul 21, 2020

Microbeman said:
I know what pheno refers to but not the term pheno hunt.
I invented notil indoor putting plants proximally planted.

Depending on your purpose so far as plant size, photoperiod etc. you can plant them equally spaced successfully.
As I said notil is more about subsequent planting.

If you plant to eliminate some undesirables and get seeds from one, no problem

View Image

Oh I see, my apologies. I wasn't aware I was talking to the inventor himself. How did those shelves work out for flowering?

That is correct, no till isn't very related to my question, but I thought it might help explain why I'm using a 30 gallon pot indoors haha.

Thank you Microbeman, I will keep that in mind.

Best,
HC

Microbeman · Jul 22, 2020

Holderchert said:
Oh I see, my apologies. I wasn't aware I was talking to the inventor himself. How did those shelves work out for flowering?

That is correct, no till isn't very related to my question, but I thought it might help explain why I'm using a 30 gallon pot indoors haha.

Thank you Microbeman, I will keep that in mind.

Best,
HC

It was half tongue in cheek but it is almost true except 3 little birds posted about it before I. Those are not shelves but bins which are 14 inches deep. We ran the same soil for 5 years and harvested about 4.5 pounds every 60-64 days per room; 5 rooms average.

St. Phatty · Jul 22, 2020

I've known knowledgeable growers who claimed they could do an effective pheno hunt just planting 4 plants. - in Mendo.

And another who usually planted 100. - in BC.

Rico Swazi · Jul 24, 2020

Not indoors , but I did 50 seeds with friends outdoors in July 2018.
25 Jack Herer seeds in each 35 gal tub July 18th pic (47 popped)
Approx. 2 inch spacing in rows with peas to promote bacterial and fungal associations (MNs)

four of us got together and chose 3 'best of' to take cuts from. One top contender was disqualified for drooping at night shown in last pic taken Aug 8th. Our goal was to select for fastest flowering and hardiest among competition. Plants were culled shortly after not wanting to chance a late hermie

How many landrace seeds we talking and what are your goals HC?

Holderchert · Jul 24, 2020

Rico Swazi said:
Not indoors , but I did 50 seeds with friends outdoors in July 2018.
25 Jack Herer seeds in each 35 gal tub July 18th pic (47 popped)
Approx. 2 inch spacing in rows with peas to promote bacterial and fungal associations (MNs)

View Image View Image View Image

four of us got together and chose 3 'best of' to take cuts from. One top contender was disqualified for drooping at night shown in last pic taken Aug 8th. Our goal was to select for fastest flowering and hardiest among competition. Plants were culled shortly after not wanting to chance a late hermie

How many landrace seeds we talking and what are your goals HC?

Wow Rico, this is exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. Very happy to see that this is possible, thank you for taking the time to respond. Do you think taking them all the way to seed in those tubs would cause them to herm? I'd like to avoid that if possible so I don't end up breeding with plants prone to herming.

I don't have many seeds of each variety, 12-24 seeds of 7 varieties from RSC. Some Thai, Lao, Iranian, and Himalayan varieties many of which are still quite ferrel or a little domesticated by ganja farmers from the region (very pure genetics). There's no way I'll get a complete look at each genepool with so few specimines. Given that, I'd like to be self sufficient in the future with my own seeds, and I'd rather not end up with a bunch of seeds from less that great parents if I can avoid it. Or at least pick from the best of the lot.

Maybe I'd be wasting my time? ...How did your trials turn out Rico?

Rico Swazi · Jul 26, 2020

Not sure how much influence overcrowding would be on herming, didn't test for that. I believe genetics play a larger role .The herm issue for us was the use of an unknown male that bumped uglies with a friends Jack. He grew out some of those seeds the previous winter indoors had some nanners late flower. but the high was an incredible euphoric effect, gave a permagrin. so each of us popped fifty seeds for a total of 200 plants to select the fast and vigoriest

Our goal was not to flower them out but rather take cuttings of the best, see where they take us, and use the most ideal of those for cuttings and breeding stock., most important was to cull the rest like ol' luther taught us-

"Bear in mind that in the production of any new plant, selection plays the all-important part. First, one must get clearly in mind the kind of plant he wants, then breed and select to that end, always choosing through a series of years the plants which are approaching nearest the ideal, and rejecting all others. -Luther Burbank (in James, 1964)"

the quote above came from Marijuana Botany An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis by Robert Connell Clarke
here is a link to the PDF
https://www.bing.com/search?q=marijuana+botany+pdf&FORM=QSRE2

not a waste of time if you have an idea of what you are looking for. Reading and understanding Marijuana Botany will help .
Nice stash of seeds. Post some pics and keep us updated with how you proceed. Good luck in your efforts .

I am happy to say with a permagrin the trials are growing well.

Holderchert · Jul 28, 2020

Looking good so far! The little plant to the side is an experiment to test the efficacy of se KNF inputs I've made and run some plates / scope out the microbial life after said inputs. I'm worrying cane sugar may be no bueno for ferments but I wanna see for myself.

Rico: cool stuff! Big fan of Luther Burbank and what he's done with regards to other species but I had no idea he had done any work with cannabis cultivation, but it makes total sense. Thank you for sharing this!

Yeah I guess I'm working with the space I have. It's more of a slightly selective seed run than a breed selection I guess. I'm sure to really get the most out of a large gene pool you need to plant many more (50+?) seeds. Thank you for the encouragement though! I will update periodically how it turns out. May be better suited for the landrace subforum though.

Rico Swazi · Aug 3, 2020

Sorry to have given you the impression Luther was working with cannabis, as far as I know he hadn't. The quote was Robert Clarke referencing Luther on what had to be done to get a desired result.

to get the most out of any gene pool , thousands of seeds would be needed, a bit more than most of us can do.

But nothing to say you can't have fun trying to find that diamond in the rough with only a few plants.

Good luck on your selective seed run !

Mattbho · Aug 6, 2020

Rico culled a plant for drooping at night?? My favorite dosido does that i tell people she's snoring. Was it because she wasnt growing fast enough? I really doubt you would cull the most vigorous just because she was a freak in the sheets

Rico Swazi · Aug 9, 2020

I really doubt you would cull the most vigorous just because she was a freak in the sheets

Must have culled thousands before I found this one and no doubt 'bout it brother after 32 yrs marriage she is still a freak in the sheets !!
on the hunt for that ideal pheno so maybe I can keep up with my wife... lol

What I showed earlier was a friends project, his male was nice but unknown. The smoke has a great high but poor taste nor does it flower or finish any sooner. The JH cut from the breeder (coastal highs) has a reliable taste and effect and is what I continue to grow.

Last year, we found this cultivar, Snoops Dream from the same breeder,and fell in love with it in most every way. pic taken on the Aug 6th and well into flower. Remedy CBD on the right.

this is her last year Sept 12, Motor Head and Jack Herer in background to give an idea of how fast she is to flower.

For me, Snoops has a great body high with some pain relief on the back end of an initial soaring happy high. Makes me want to get up and do things and not hurt. A longer soar before the floor would be nice and that may come with timing of the harvest. Close to ideal.

Holderchert hows things ? All above soil vigorously growing ? If you have a way of putting images of what you scope would be great. KNF inputs specifically . Thanks mate

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Pheno hunt in a 30 gal. No till?

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