Water Cooled Growers Unite!

LoudBlunts · May 3, 2010

Ryan, whas the best product to insulate reservoirs with?

that reflectix stuff?

also....what fittings are those that come on the reservoirs?

like what size and what type?

mr freez · May 15, 2010

If u have a pool u can put a coil in it and get free cold water fall winter and spring! also chillers are not new tech it is just being modified for smaller apps. unico is a company that is now making systems for homes check them out at. http://www.unicosystem.com

watercooled@ · May 16, 2010

krunchbubble said:
this is a great thread! will be water cooling this summer........

^ This is the best post on here. I can't wait to see what and how you install it

Lazyman said:
In the future I'm gonna have a couple geothermal loops dug in, so I can pump water in one side and it will always come out cold on the other. No chiller needed, just a pump and a heat exchanger...

No your not..

Lazyman said:
Aha, found this clip when I googled geothermal cooling loop costs:
Cost
As a rule of thumb, a geothermal heat pump system costs about $2,500 per ton of capacity. ....

... You figured it out. Geothermal cooling is EXPENSIVE!

mrwags said:
Ground water is usually below 65 degrees so I think your on to something here...

Yes it is!

Too bad WCG.com left. I know he's full of knowledge.

Anyways, for those of you who don't know I setup a room with 12 ice boxes on 12,000 watts and supplement cooling with a single 16,000 BTU watercooled A/C. Did I mention there is NO Chiller in this room?

The water to the iceboxes is fed from well water which goes through the iceboxes and A/C in a PROPERLY setup manifold. It exits to a second well on the property. The room can maintain 78 degrees with lights on in currently shitty outside temps.
The ballasts are in the room, so is a water cooled dehumidifier and (a standard dehumidifier which rarely runs)

I believe that storing cooling energy in a larger reservoir is a good idea. So I would size the reservoir according to the space allotment making it as large as I can.

AND... even though I had a bad experience with a JBJ commercial chiller I would consider it as a chiller in the future, but for large applications would also consider Jandy pool heaters. Jandy already have some heater with the chiller function, but would also build out any of there heaters into chillers if you call them and ask.

The last thing I would point out is water cooled air conditioners. These are really cool because there is no air compressor that sits outside. Not quite as efficient as using a chiller and Iceboxes (or better yet, no chiller and iceboxes with well water :dance013:

), but still a good option if you don't want extra A/C's or chillers visible. You can install a $200 above ground pool too cool a water cooled A/C and add a small fountain to it in order to cool off the water which is heated when the compressor is running.

webehi · May 17, 2010

If you are on rural property with a well next to a creek and run DTW is it really a waste. Doesn't it go right back into the water table? Or does the earth just soak it up so my great grandkids won't have any?

teddybud · May 17, 2010

I've been think hard about trying water cooling.. done it on my computer with great success now.. i'm thinkin its time for the grow.. I'll only be running either a 1000watt or a 600watt... so i don't think I would need that powerful of a chiller... thinking maybe the 1/2hp chiller plus a 6 inch icebox and 30gal rez would work.. someone plz correct me if I'm wrong..
edit- on second thought maybe I would need a 1hp chiller..

toohighmf · May 18, 2010

I got the call and my 28000btu window AC is now a 2+ horse chiller. now to clear out the weeds and leaves, dump some dg and drill a couple of holes. I guess I better go grab the res and materials for the manifolds. iceboxes, hydroGEN-II, hydroGEN pro controller, & 1/2 horse flotec on order next week. I'll just use it to cool the room/lights, and burner this run, but next one I can do my 16 off 4 water cooled.

bodonovich · May 18, 2010

i cool 3 1000w in a sealed room with a co2 burner and dehumidifier and 3 ballast making heat in the room with a 1 fan chiller and the fan i changed to a 10inch axial that uses 70watts only and my temps stay at 86 degrees even when temp outside gets to 25c

Rednick · May 18, 2010

Just had to chime in on the whole concept of heat exchange.
@ Whatever person said Air cools better:
Solids (metals) are the most CONDUCTIVE of energy for a given element (most of the time). Evidenced by heating up one end of a knife and having to wear mits for a knife hit. And to all those that say, well Styrofoam is solid? Not solid in the Chemical sense. Contains air pockets.

Liquids are less CONDUCTIVE, but their ability to move around and have different molecules contact more freely make them a good choice. This is why a radiator is a bunch of metal fins (Solids) with a sugar solution (Liquids) that courses through it.

Gases are the LEAST conductive. That is why they are used as insulators between different mediums. They do however have that ability for molecules to freely move about, without restrictions that liquids and solids have.

This all derives from the molecular spacing of the different states.
Gases (most spaced), Solids (least spaced). This is also the reason that for a given element with a given mass, volume is smallest in Solid form and largest in gaseous form. Solids are most dense.
Water is an exception because of the Molecular Geometry of the H2O molecule.

This molecular spacing distinction is very important when we start considering Super Critical Fluid Extraction...but that is off subject.

Point is, yes! Liquid cooling works more efficiently, and now that you don't have to lose lumens to do it, I may be trying my hand at it this year.

Rednick · May 19, 2010

My head hurts,
I just had an idea.

RE Geothermal backyard:
What if instead of running a coil you ran the tubes into plate heat exchangers or radiators. I am assuming the conentration of surface area would be one obstacle to overcome, but could it be a way to use less material (and perhaps cheaper material) to achieve the same Btu capacity?

Okay, maybe cheaper material.
I guess surface area is surface area regardless of shape.

ajc0k · May 20, 2010

whats up guys im in the final process of planning my 4k vertical open bulb garage grow. im wondering if a 1 hp chiller with a 8" icebox on a recirculating 532 cfm fan/scrubber, acting as a/c would be sufficient cooling? thanks

toohighmf · May 20, 2010

I'm going to make an AC from a 2HP chiller, and 4 Iceboxes with some 8" rigid duct & Tees and an 8" fan. I imagine it would be sufficient to cool 5-6kw uncooled if properly installed.

DevilWeed · May 20, 2010

Tagging along as I'm really interested in these systems. Toohigh, keep us posted as you progress!

toohighmf · May 20, 2010

It's not quite a priority for me yet, but I'm going to start plumbing/wiring my chiller n build my manifolds. pics up as soon as I get it over here. I might just dig me a ditch and bury a res. if I can keep the water cool that way, I'll do it, and save this chiller for a bigger project. the area is well shaded and concealed by a fence. it may just do the job. i'm going to consult a friend who understands geothermal cooling a little better than I do, but to cool 4k constantly seems pretty easy to keep cool.

EDIT. just spoke w homey and he says that burrying the res will help insulate the res, a smaller chiller would suffice, or run my 2.2hp much less. more work. yay

LoudBlunts · May 20, 2010

ajc0k said:
whats up guys im in the final process of planning my 4k vertical open bulb garage grow. im wondering if a 1 hp chiller with a 8" icebox on a recirculating 532 cfm fan/scrubber, acting as a/c would be sufficient cooling? thanks

an air handler hooked up to a chiller would prolly be better in your situation

Lazyman · May 20, 2010

toohighmf said:
It's not quite a priority for me yet, but I'm going to start plumbing/wiring my chiller n build my manifolds. pics up as soon as I get it over here. I might just dig me a ditch and bury a res. if I can keep the water cool that way, I'll do it, and save this chiller for a bigger project. the area is well shaded and concealed by a fence. it may just do the job. i'm going to consult a friend who understands geothermal cooling a little better than I do, but to cool 4k constantly seems pretty easy to keep cool.

EDIT. just spoke w homey and he says that burrying the res will help insulate the res, a smaller chiller would suffice, or run my 2.2hp much less. more work. yay

I like the way you think. :tiphat:

Never thought to bury the res, great tip! Just thinking of surface contact area, the higher the better:

55g drum, 23" X35":
side: 2527.7 sq in
+
base 1303.9 sq in
= 3831.6 sq in.

Volume of soil to displace ea: 8.4 cu ft.

115g square flat reservoir 50L" X 50W" X 14.5D"
Base: 2500 sq in
4 Sides of 750 sq in ea: 3000 sq in
=5500 sq in

Volume of soil to displace: 26 cubic feet

Whew, I didn't expect the barrel to win that one, but sure enough! Bury a pair of plastic ones for less work and more cooling power. Still gotta dig 35" instead of 15" deep, but young blood is good for shoveling work and the two barrels are cheaper than the 1 115g. Good deal!

I do recall reading somewhere that 100g is recommended per ton of cooling, but I think with a chiller it's up to you how much you wanna work to prevent it from cycling.

toohighmf · May 20, 2010

figured keeping the res around 58-60f burried in the earth would definitely insulate it & help reduce the cycling of the chiller. hence more efficiency. that is the main advantage to watercooling, no?

Lazyman · May 20, 2010

Hells yeah. Though I did the math the other day, since most folks will buy chillers and exchangers the initial investment is almost double that of AC. In my case it takes about 5 years for it to pay for itself, which isn't great. I'd expect the chiller to start having compressor issues after that much service life, butif I'm ever in a spot for ten years it's gonna be geothermal all the way. Horizontal loops are tons cheaper than verticals, and can DIY with a small backhoe or excavator. Rent one for a few days and you can have all the cooling you'll ever need, if you have the land!

Doradoguy · May 20, 2010

River 75 feet away

River 75 feet away

How cold do we think the river needs to be. I know the bottom is cooler if I had to guess maybe 58 degrees at the bottom. I'm afraid it would warm up traveling the 75 feet. How warm would be acceptable? Anybody have a clue?

toohighmf · May 20, 2010

after the hookup, it will cost me about $1500-2000 all in for my chiller, hydroGEN, hydroGEN controller, manifolds, iceboxes, line, pump, and res. it will pay for itself a bit sooner. to be honest while I strive for efficiency, it's the benefits for CEA and my 70 year old salt water riddled garage that requires a no pressure, low humidity solution to my problems with this location. 40 amps of lighting and cooling at it's most efficient.

Lazyman · May 20, 2010

Doradoguy said:
How cold do we think the river needs to be. I know the bottom is cooler if I had to guess maybe 58 degrees at the bottom. I'm afraid it would warm up traveling the 75 feet. How warm would be acceptable? Anybody have a clue?

You want to maintain at least a 10-15*F temp differential, so a 75*F room should get roughly 60*F water.

My advice would be to bury the tubing in a trench to keep it underground (rent a trencher to get it a few feet deep at least) and then backfill it. Tubing sitting on the surface would indeed get too warm and would be prone to more damage. If you have gophers make sure your lines are chew-proof, I think they make an aluminum-sleeved- PEX line now that oughtta work but I'd do some homework on it to be safe.

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