Males of which you grew out the progeny

Howdy folks,

can people here chime in and let us know of males which they used in breeding where they actually grew out the progeny and the males passed along desirable traits?

All this talk about male selection this and that and I rarely ever read something along the lines of:
"I used this male to pollinate and grew out the progeny. The progeny convinced with being shorter flowering/higher yielding/more potent across the board".
Or something to that effect.

Even more helpful would be a conclusion along the lines of:
"In retrospect, now that I know this male was desirable for breeding and passed on desirable traits, what most characterized the male during veg and flower was X"

i find with more stable strains that the mother dominates the cross

more hybrid strains it can go anyway , to sunday .

i try to grow all my own offspring , but lately thats not possible . now i,m slowing down and working one line its becoming very predictable in what i,m seeing in the offspring .

my personal preference is to make f2 grow those out and go back into them and find the pheno,s i know went well and f3 . its easier if your able to keep clones and pollinate the desirables though , but i,m not set up for indoor .

When you say it becomes very predictable what you will see you mean when you take a line to F3 and beyond?

Or due to experience you can predict by looking at the male or something?

As soon as I detect a male that seems promissing, I collect (and store) its pollen to knock up the females that I feel are most suited for the characteristics of the male.

While I have found that the chemotypical traits of a male are passed on rather easily (at least as far as you can tell), resulting in F1-generations that exhibit these traits in varying degrees, the inheritance of the phenotypical traits seem to be either more 'liberal' or it can't be identified as easily (I suspect the latter) - the female genes seem to be more dominant in this respect. But that's just my very own experience.

However, when using 'stable' strains, this changes significantly insofar they seem to pass on a much larger number of traits to later generations. For example: A few years ago a friend of mine, who's from Afghanistan, brought back some seeds he aquired from a family member back home. Of the few I've popped so far, all showed similar characteristics that appear to be extremely dominant in crosses. All offspring I've grown out yet looked/looks very similar, no matter what mom/dad I used. Only their aroma varies, depending on the other parent, but the aroma of the Afghanis is always present.

Anyway, many breeders / seedbanks build their genetic libraries around certain 'proven' males that have shown to pass on their genetics in a way that appears to be very desireable. Rare Dankness for example use their RD#1 male for a huge number of crosses. As is Gage Green Genetics with their ubiquitous use of their so called 'Joseph' (Underdog OG).

A male that has proven again and again that it enriches whatever female it's crossed with is a super nice thing, since you know what to look for from the mom's side as well as the dad's side. So when you have a female that's great in all respects but one and you have a 'proven' male that has shown to add the very trait you miss from the mom, you can simply cross these two and chances are good for your 'superman' to do his magic once again.

bigbadbiddy said:

When you say it becomes very predictable what you will see you mean when you take a line to F3 and beyond?

Or due to experience you can predict by looking at the male or something?

Click to expand...

no , predictable ..... as in once you grow so many of a f1 and f2 and see all the pheno,s , making f3 becomes predictable .

saying that i normally will grow quiet a few f2( over a 100 and beyond ) sometimes , so i see all the pheno,s . i,m lucky enough to have the space . so the f3 is normally a given , whats on the way . its still a surprise though , but very uniform in results .

recently i grew 20 f3 you could not tell them apart . which is what i was going for . i guess it could have went either way though . but knowing your strains is the key and seeing enough of the f2 , then choosing the ones you enjoy

saying all does,nt mean your going to get the same results every time you make f3 .

i,just a pollen chunker though but its nice when a plan comes together . mind you i could be talking out my ass as i,ve really just started down the f3 road , but i like what i,ve seen so far and look forward to growing the f4 i just made .

can people here chime in and let us know of males which they used in breeding where they actually grew out the progeny and the males passed along desirable traits?

Click to expand...

^ exactly.

my keeper seeds of Africa Malawi gold mandingo clone produces the best smoke. I've smoked her for three years now. my soa mg male I used actually passed on better attributes than the mandingo reversed pollen.


some plants do not effectively pass on their superior attributes into their progeny.

The more inbred strain dominates ime, unless it has accumulated deleterious mutations. The more distantly related the parents are, the easier it is to see the traits that dominate. Can't tell as much by crossing polyhybrids with each other.

In my crosses the female usually passed on more of the flavour, while the male affects the structure more, but I imagine this is case dependent.

I had a male I used for stem strength/stretch, THC, white frost, recessive aroma/flavor, and exceptional rooting- basicallly added vigor, made cloning easy, pepped up the looks and kept potency up while maintaining the mothers smoke qualities. He was sedating, but that trait was probably not double dominant and most likely was heterozygous for that.

I lucked out as these traits were regularly conferred to the majority of the crosses I made of which were a dozen or two. I could recreate the male breeder and create variations (like one with yield traits!).

You have to grow out several progeny generations in addition to multiple test crosses to *know* his breeding value.

Short males will increase shortness. F2 the short ones with the structure you want to find parents for that trait. The tip off on yield for males is by growing several of them and noticing the bigger flower clusters- also notice density, and cluster number early on. Those ones give higher yielding offspring. Typically you could expect 25%-75% to have what your looking for. Personally I don't like short much, but its easy to breed and you can get plenty of shorties in a year or two.

bigbadbiddy said:

Howdy folks,

can people here chime in and let us know of males which they used in breeding where they actually grew out the progeny and the males passed along desirable traits?

All this talk about male selection this and that and I rarely ever read something along the lines of:
"I used this male to pollinate and grew out the progeny. The progeny convinced with being shorter flowering/higher yielding/more potent across the board".
Or something to that effect.

Even more helpful would be a conclusion along the lines of:
"In retrospect, now that I know this male was desirable for breeding and passed on desirable traits, what most characterized the male during veg and flower was X"

Click to expand...

If you take two ibls that you have selected for truebreeding traits and combine you can predict to a degree... random males from packs of seeds is a crapshoot 9/10 times

Taken one line to f15 ish, give or take a gen. Can honestly say that pre-predicting phenotypical expression of any one seed is impossible. For a group of 50 you can say so many will show this and so many that, but not this seed will tapdance.

It all depends upon if your parents have dominant, recessive, or codominant traits.

I found a co dominant male that increases stem and flower size and plant vigor but let the smell and look of female come through... been proving the line out and now am at 3 gen out cross and still seems present in 25% of offspring... fun stufff...

I had a Jacks CLeaner male that my buddy Loran gave me. He was a true stud. Made most thing really frosty and gave most everything that jack smell and flavor.

The male was used to make Kush Cleaner. The match between sfvOG and the jack is incredible. The same male crossed to Erkle did something completely different.

What I'm getting at is one male might cross really well to one female but not to another.

Very interesting infos!

See this is the first time I hear that a male can massively improve one line and then not do much for another.

I used to believe (like many others I think) that you basically search for a "stud" and that "stud" will simply make anything its crossed to better. Some will add frost, some vigor, some smell etc. etc.

The statement that results depend on how that "stud" meshes with the strain its crossed to makes a whole lot of sense to me.

But it also just reinforces my opinion that we have paid little to no attention to males as a community and that we know way too little about it.

And I believe that most breeders guard the info they have about males instead of sharing it, which is sad but I suppose understandable.