[Landrace] Malawi, Durban (CBG), Ethiopian and Honduras

dubi said:

Welcome ikinokori

Thanks for choosing ACE Seeds for your current grow and to start to get familiarized with the growing of landraces.

Glad to see your seedlings survived from the contamination and cleaning, it's very important to keep clean the growing area and nearby areas to avoid infections. If you need to clean the room with something aggressive is better to take out the plants, then do the cleaning in depth and only after that bring back the plants to the growing area again.

Don't overwater your plants (especially in seedling stage), let the soil dry propely before doing another watering, keep the growing area and air flow clean, provide constant warm temps around 25ºC and your plants will eventually surpass the problem.

Some of your seedlings need already a transplant, other will need it soon. After they get used to the new pot and transplant, they will start to grow rapidly with proper light intensity and with the other variables in the correct range.

Hope it helps and best wishes!

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Thank you very much for these infos, it does indeed help, will take everything in mind. Today is repot days for the honduras and the other big ones (and maybe others too if i see they have filled their pots properly), can't wait to see them having fun in bigger pots i am a little bit scared of the honduras though, i don't know where you guys find her and how you trained them, but geez they are some kind of monster plants haha they are so strong !

I will do a proper update in the following days but i just wanted to make a quick comment first.


My initial goal with this grow was to discover what a landrace strain is, see the different strains in their original state and store them for preservation. I think i kinda start to see how they are different from normal hybrids or even pure but domesticated varieties. Mostly, the Honduras and Ethiopian behave very differently from what i used to grow and from each other and it's very early in the grow. Durban too to some degree, it looks like they all have very special needs of their own which i'll explain later. The malawi though feels a lot like a "normal" strain right now. It is a compliment actually, because me saying that is because even though they took the biggest hit initially, they are just so well behaved and regular in the vegetative state that it's kind of a bliss growing them right now. Strangely enough they are the most sensitive to heat, seems they really want "typical" indoor temperature.



I will explain more on the whole thing in my future update, but right now i just wanted to say for maybe newbs like me that if you are not confident with going sativa you should maybe try her because she just feels, again for the moment, very much like anything i've grown before in terms of easiness, except very vigorous. I will try to not go too far in my assumptions and wait for the flowering and harvest to make any definitive assesment, but i think i could see myself recommending her to new growers as first strain which is kind if incredible. i have dealth with poor hybrids from "great" breeders and its kind of crazy only a few weeks in seeing the difference, specially when i fed them litteraly only 2 times and give them only 13 hours of light per day. Mayhe flowering will change my mind about that so we will see, but right now i am kind of amazed and i wanted to share that.



On another note, i was right about the Honduras : they are just monsters, they grow like crazy it almost scares about their potential final height. more on that later

here's a little preview for you guys (from left to right in vertical line : Honduras, ethiopian, Malawi, Durban)

How many days from bean are they in the pic? Nice healthy looking plants btw.

thank you ! They are from 20 days to 25 days for some, some had long germ rates and they really halted during the chemical incident so they may be a little bit behind to what they are supposed to be

i wanted to say too, if my plants look very "light green", it's because my light kinda washes out everything. It is an eye hortilux cmh and it looks very white, which also has the opposite effect of hps with visibility of issues as the cmh highlights every single issue, insect bite and deficiencies. very practical ^^


for example, here's how one of the malawi looks on a more "normal" light :

So, here is the update.

The plants are doing really well. Today i will start the switch to 11/13 bybreducing the daylight time of 16 minutes per day so it will take a week. It may be a little bit brutal, but since they are real sativa i can't take the risk of them being too big, i think i may even be a little late but i wanted them to recover from the vinegar incident and get used to their new pots.

There was a heat wave for a few days so the temperature went from a steady 80 degrees to 90 all of the sudden. They initially didn't like it, but it was also the moment where i was about to start the silica spray. Now, they still don't like it but they don't show the typical cupping of the upper side leaf from heat stress. It doesn't seem to slow them down either, as they keep growing at a pretty rapid pace, if anything it probably helped me if it did haha

There was also an initial pest outbreak. It was very minor and there's just a few bites on some leaves and now i don't see any evolution ( it was almost a week ago). I use a special mixture of neem oil with essential oils to get rid of them. Apparently, the presence of chitine, the main component of insects shell, or body or whatever it is called, triggers them and stimulate their natural defenses so i dont really mind having a few insects there and there as long as there is no damage to them. I will still keep an eye and spray regularly

Also, in my quest of trying to emulate a more unforgiving "wild" environment (maybe stimulate their survival abilities ?) and also trying completely new things like feeding as little as possible, i tried to water the least frequently possible.I used to water every 2 or 3 days when "the soil was dry from an inch" but this time, i wanted a clear indication they were thirsty so i waited for them to have the "underwatering droop". It didnt happen, it has been more than a week and they are still very perky even though the pots are pretty light and dry. I now feel very dumb because i probably used to overwater them a lot in the past. And this is with the heat wave, i can't imagine how long it may take when the temps are normal.

Some of them show clear signs of underfeeding on the bottom (aka honduras and it is starting very slightly in one malawi), but overall they look pretty, plus when i look in the wild, i see it very often too so my assumption is maybe they are probably better suited at surviving in low nutrient environment than in excess nutrients. Also they look so much better than when they are mass fed so i'll probably keep this approach

Maybe it is not ideal, but I have experienced overfed and overwatered plants because of how much products the hydro person used to recommend to me and because of my own beliefs (probably caused from our society of mass consumption) that more is always better, and it is the first time i really have underfed and underwatered plant for trial and error. From now on i think i will always work my way up with nutes (feeding more and more until finding the right balance for each of them) instead of aiming for the max and feeding blindly till nute burn to then going down. I assume one of the main benefits of this is maybe that it reduces a lot potential nutrient lockouts, something i really despise.



Next posts will focus on each strains. I'm sorry, it may be annoying, but i can't upload more than 5 pictures per post apparently so it's the only way i can show them properly with a proper break down of each strain and individual plants.

Honduras :

So as said previously, they are incredibly vigorous. They grow no matter what and seem unstoppable. They resist the heat, the pest, have already started branching out and take a lot of space. If they look like they have similar height as some malawi, it is only because i have buried half of their stem when repotting, and they have at least one or 2 extra pair of leaves.

Honduras #1 :



Honduras #2 :


Honduras #3 :



They are also all underfed. It is hard to see in the photos as i said previously, my light washes out everything so even the malawi, which are very deep green, look underfed under it. But the Honduras all display some kind if yellowing on the bottom, and the Honduras #1 looks really underfed on the oldest leaves . #2 have slight discoloration on bottom leaves and #3, which is strangely the most vigorous and biggest of them all, only have slight yellowing tips.

Picture of the yellowing leaves of the Honduras #1



This started a long time ago, it seems they were underfed from the start and even repotting in new soil didn't fix that. i will try to up the nutes, but either way they grow so big, so fast and so strongly that i will not go overboard and it would probably have been a disaster if they were properly fed haha ^^

Ethiopian :

I am very perplex about them. They are the smallest and the slowest of them all. i was wondering if i did something wrong, specially since this was the case since sprouting and before the whole fiasco. I went to look on some grow reports and i saw someone having the exact same experience. He said his ethiopians were "runts" (i don't know what that means but i guess something not good) and never grew above a certain height (i don't remember which), so he culled them.


Ethiopian #1 :


Ethiopian #2 :



Ethiopian #3 :



Since i don't really care about that, it doesnt really affect me and even reassures me as that's probably how they are. Still, i don't like low vigor plants, they are often the weak point of the garden and can be a vector of infections and pest attack. This doesnt seem to be the case here, as they are the most heat resistant, were almost the only ones not affected by the pest breakout, have not a single apparent deficiency and look like they are doing just fine. Maybe they are just slow and short ? Also their roots were comparable to those of the other ones when i repotted them, so i am very confused. If someone sees something i don't, don't hesitate to point that out.

One thing though, some of their leaves have a curve at the end. They are not pointy, not drooping, just curved and it is a large part of it, like half of it is straight and perky and the other half has a rounded curve. It appeared since their first true leaves and never went away. No browning, yellowing, discoloration... I thought it was maybe they were constantly overwatered, but their soil is pretty dry right now and they haven't been watered in an entire week with no changement at all... All of them are like this, the #1 maybe a little bit less.

Either way i like them and they are pretty so if it is just how they are, then so be it ^^

Malawi

i have already talked a little bit about the malawi, and they really feel like a good old hybrid. They are pretty vigorous, have fat leaves and grow well. They don't seem as hungry as Honduras while showing a vigor that can somewhat be compared (somewhat)

They are very pretty. Their leaves are so wide that it looks much closer than what we may refer as an "indica", even though i saw the indica / sativa separation is not as clear cut as what is traditionnally known (some sativa do have short flowering times and fat leaves apparently)

They are the most sensitive to "unusual" environmental conditions though. They were the ones who were the most "biten" by insects and the most sensitive to heat, they do show the "cupping" of high heat even though it is better now since the silica spray. When nothing is wrong, they look the most adapted to my "indoor" grow room


Malawi #1


Malawi #2


Malawi #3





Malawi #3 is much shorter than the other 2 and fatter. It has lower vigor than the other too. I will have to keep an eye on her as she (or he) looks more fragile. #1 is showing that she wants more food, and i think #2 is starting too. it is nowhere near the Honduras level of underfeeding, but i will definitely feed them some food next time.

Also, they all look different. i already talked about that, as they all do look like they come from the same strain, but compared to the other strains which are very homogenous, these ones have clear and dinstinc phenotypes, just like with the traditional hybrids i have grown in the past. #1 is more "sativaesque", #2 is a fat girl (or boy) and #3 almost looks like a full blown "traditional" indica. I suppose this shows this strain has been worked a lot and show some variation as a result of that.

Either way the strain as of right now is very manageable (the most manageable actually), very predictable and pretty vigorous so congrats to ace about that.

The durban is the most "unusual" of them all. My initial finding that they were the most "elongated" and airy ones is even more apparent now. Their leaves are very slender, which is pretty nice to see. It is pretty hard to see in my pictures as everything looks flatter on a screen. i can't wait to see them in flowering.

Durban #1



Durban #2


Durban #3



They are the most picky ones too. They don't seem to like a lot of food first of all although this has to be confirmed further as they had very low nutrients from the start. The most apparent thing is that i think they may have a much higher need for cal/ mag than all of the other ones. None of the malawi, honduras and ethiopian show calmag deficiency, yet the durban all show something that looks like it. Durban #3 is the most affected, and show very obvious sign of a deficiency

Here is a pic of the most affected leaf (the brown part is the vinegar burn and is unrelated to the deficiency which appears on other leaves too, also it is much more "reddish" and apparent in real life, i couldn't manage to focus properly the camera) :



It appeared a long time ago actually, when they were small in the small pots and evolved worse and worse but stopped right after i sprayed them with calmag. None of them seem to show this issue on newer leaves and there is no evolution of the issue on lower leaves when it kept worsening everyday before. The calmag in my regimen is supposed to come from the soil + water, not from my liquid fertilizer and the other ones don't show any calmag issue, so to me it is unlikely to be an underfeeding issue but rather that they need more of these specific micro. Maybe the soil in durban is very cal/magish ? Either way the issue is under control right now but it's funny to see how their different latitude of origin can affect their needs, i would love to see and touch the soil they grow naturally.

In any case i will definitely keep an eye on this issue and will probably keep giving them a slight amount of it all through flowering. I don't mind a regular nute deficiency, but micromineral deficiency just plain sucks in my opinion.

here's a picture under "normal" lighting. They look much prettier but i am still thankful for the harsh white cmh, cause under this lighting, even though it is also very white, many issues goes undercover haha

ikinokori said:

(last premade post, a few days later) Something has happenned. Due to issue with mold (not plant, but from moldy clothes) i have entierely disinfected my grow room with vinegar and peroxide hydrogen (not mixed). it worked apparently, but i put so much vinegar everywhere that i became dizzy and had to run for oxygen. Its not the first time i cleaned with vinegar, but i put so much everything was drenched in it. I even became very ill the next day and caught a big flu.

The plants did not like it at all either. They got all burned and almost died. It was such a dumb mistake i feel very stupid. And for info, they were not even in the same location where i vinegar'd everything, which shows how much i messed up.

I know i have said i will be ok if this doesnt go well but it is not true. I feel very sad when i see them as they look terrible. I was wanting to trash them down and start over but this would go against what this whole thing is and be very coward-ish, plus i'm responsible for what happenned to them so the least would be to fix this whole thing and care for them to make up for it so i decided to suck it up and make them get better. I will do my best for them to recover, and my plan is to just let them be with water, heat and sun. Some parts are still green and the roots seems compeltely unaffected so i hope this will be a bad memory soon. After all, we are both ill so we both need to recover

We will see what happens.

when they were fine :

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right after the vinegar bath (speaks for itself) :
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a day after :
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The vinegar is acidic, so flush your soil medium with pH water to make sure there is no vinegar in the soil. Wash the leaves very well. What is the pH of your soil and water? You could also be getting a nutrient, mineral lockout if the pH is too high or too low causing the deficiency.
Have you fed them recently? What is in the soil?
Good luck my friend, they should recover. Keep us posted. Otherwise, looking really nice. Good job.
Peace, God bless

SolarLogos said:

The vinegar is acidic, so flush your soil medium with pH water to make sure there is no vinegar in the soil. Wash the leaves very well. What is the pH of your soil and water? You could also be getting a nutrient, mineral lockout if the pH is too high or too low causing the deficiency.
Have you fed them recently? What is in the soil?
Good luck my friend, they should recover. Keep us posted. Otherwise, looking really nice. Good job.
Peace, God bless

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Thank you I have detailed the the vinegar incident in previous posts, there is no vinegar in my soil thankfully, the chemical burn came from the air. I soaked an entire room in vinegar, and even though the plants were in another room, they got severely damaged (and me as well haha) because of the vinegar fume. It was very early in the grow (they almost just had sprouted) and they were in extremely small pots, i have repotted since. You can check the previous pages, i detailed the incident, they looked terrible i thought they would die The burned leaves are the remnants of the incident, they had only one pair of very small leaves back then

Here is how they were



My water has the correct ph and my soil has a ph of 6.2 if i remember correctly. i know there is dolomite, organic matter plus extra soil conditioning stuff. the issue only appeared on the durban (none of the other strains show calmag issue) and it got away after repotting and spraying with calmag, they were having low nutrients before repoting and they were never feeded since repotting. since the issue was present very early on, even when they were first potted in their small pots with nutrient rich soil i think it is possible they may just like more calmag than usual maybe ?

oh sorry, i didn't see you saw my post i didn't read the quote, my bad ! anyway don't worry i don't think it is an issue anymore and that this is related for the reasons i explained in my previous post ^^

hello, quick update :

they are all doing fine. seems the incident is longway gone. they look all happy. love that. Nothing much to add except that all my suspicions seemed to be valid : the honduras wanted food; they are now doing better, the durbans (specifically #2) are calmag hungry and i have to give them regularly calmag or #2 will start being upset. so i give what (s)he wants and so far (s)he's happy ^^










Just one thing though ... Ethiopian #2 has already shown its sex, and its a male ?!? How is that possible ? Its been only 5 days since i "started" the switched, so not even full blown switch as i go 16 minutes per day in reduction im not even at the full 11 hours yet and he already showed all his corones... interesting.






Thoughts ? that's the first time i ever saw that

ok so i rechecked to see if she's a hermie or whatever and nope, no pistil anywhere, just balls... very interesting.


Also, if malawi #1 apex looks weird, is becaused i accidently smashed it with my hands while taking pictures of ehtiopian 2" male parts no real harm or anything but they start to be at the size i need to be careful when i open the grow box... i guess its time to move to the flower box

ikinokori said:

...Just one thing though ... Ethiopian #2 has already shown its sex, and its a male ?!? How is that possible ? Its been only 5 days since i "started" the switched, so not even full blown switch as i go 16 minutes per day in reduction im not even at the full 11 hours yet and he already showed all his corones... interesting.

Thoughts ? that's the first time i ever saw that

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Yes, male. It's not clear from your post what your current duration for on/off is, but since Ethiopia is ready in late November and is a 13-14 week strain, that means that it probably starts flowering BY mid August, and the duration of daylight in Ethiopia in mid August is just under 12.5 hours. It may be showing flowers already because your daylight duration has been reduced to the vicinity of 12.5 hours. Just conjecture on my part though.

brickweeder said:

Yes, male. It's not clear from your post what your current duration for on/off is, but since Ethiopia is ready in late November and is a 13-14 week strain, that means that it probably starts flowering BY mid August, and the duration of daylight in Ethiopia in mid August is just under 12.5 hours. It may be showing flowers already because your daylight duration has been reduced to the vicinity of 12.5 hours. Just conjecture on my part though.

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interesting... i see. From what i gathered, the longest daytime in ethiopia is around 12h38 max of daytime in june, and shortest is around 11h36 min inndecember, which is very narrow, so i wonder if they are maybe extremely sensitive , because for example the honduras daylength modification is more marked (13h04 in june vs 11h11 in december)... the situation is extremely similar for malawi, with around 13h04 in december and 11h11 in june.



That's very interesting though, next grow i will pribably play a lot more with daylength, i'm kinda sad i went so abrupt, looks like it could be very fun to play with daylength ^^

Durban is even more interesting, aeems the longest is around 14h04 in december and shortest is 10h13 in june ! I wne tmaybe a little bit too much ahead thinking they were all 13/11ish, but seems it is much more complicated than that. That is great information still, and definitely correspond to what you say. because then, maybe their "veg time" is around 12h30 of daylight, and because the difference is so narrow, by august like you say, as soon as it gets lower, they start to flower maybe ! i am thankful i can log this and talk to people for help, because this was a good lead and i will have these information logged for future use, because my plan is to discover each species, to do single run later in order to reproduce the seeds for preservation. Its a dream i have so i don't know if it'll happen, but if i can I'm sure i will have lots of fun doing that and emulating as closely as possible their original environment !