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Is it possible this is pre-US/European contamination Jamaican?

C

centr1fuge

Member
Mustafunk said:
There's no reason to think that Jamaican cultivar hasn't been hybridized before, it looks like a classic NLD/BLD hybrid. Contamination happened since the 80s just like in Mexico, Hawai, Thailand, Colombia and so on... one of the reasons, the old Jamaican heilrooms being eradicated back then when the helicopters started spraying Paraquat all over Colombia, Jamaica, Mexico and so on. John Holdt already chanted about how they were burning the ganja fields and the helicopters in his classic song from 1983:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smWVKR_LYjs

The Jamaica Blue Mountain 1985 is already a 1st generation hybrid, yet you can find more "untamed" expressions where the bud has the classic ganja structure. On the other hand you can find much more compact phenotypes with hashplant traits (different sized bracts, more trichomes on bud leaves and so on) segregating indeed plus the sweet strawberry terpenes from the JBM85 are not the ones you could expect on traditional ganja cultivars, normally spicier and more similar to old Colombians, South Indians and so on.

Oldschool Jamaican is not much different than oldschool Punto Rojo or Kerala.

Hope it helps,
Best.
Click to expand...

It is beyond helpful. Thank you for your generosity and time/effort spent sharing. I'm so sorry, but, I'm completely clueless as to what NLD/BLD stands for (NLD = Northern Lights dominant?).

Frankly, I dream of growing old-world tropical strains for myself and my loved ones (some of whom originally hail from Tamil Nadu and Karnataka), and since you mentioned Kerala, the South Indian sativas are at the tip-top of my bucket list. It sounds naive, I imagine, but I came into gardening with intent, knowing those are the types of (pre)historical populations I wanted to grow, simply for that deep connection to the shared evolution of mankind and ganja. I had this dream of getting ahold of some South Indian, open pollinating as many as I could to keep the line well-seeded, and then trying every phenotype that might emerge. I have no idea what seed places are worth taking a chance on for pure parental seeds like that; I remember seeing a place selling Kerala normal, but I cannot think of a testing the veracity of that claim without offending, plus, they seem to be no longer available.
 
PDX Dopesmoker

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
therevverend said:
I almost loaded the Tosh photos those are great. When I think of Jamaican I think of those pictures. Thin, wispy leaves and very light green color. Jamaican plants don't get huge, the first ganja plant I ever saw growing was a 7 foot tall Jamaican growing outdoors. Harvest was a couple weeks away, the grower told me that if I stripped the fan leaves I could keep them. I was happy as could be.

The only thing I'd had to Kookied's description, and to answer PDX's question, there was likely an influence from British Empire hemp early on. There were attempts made in the 18th century. In the 19th century the British sent a Russian hemp expert to the island to see if it could be cultivated but the attempt failed. Probably because the days are too short for European hemp plants to mature properly plus the humid tropical climate.

The Spanish grew hemp in Cuba and attempted growing in Guatemala but quickly switched to sugar because it was much more profitable and productive. Hemp was grown much more successfully in Mexico from Cortez's time until the 19th century. European hemp strains from Brazil to the Caribbean to Mexico bred into the early drug strains in the region. Before the indentured East Indians arrived with Indian strains starting in the 1850s.

Hemp plants grown as landraces in the tropics rapidly lose their 'hempy' attributes and increase in THC, probably to around 10%. Jamaica was emancipated in 1838 it's not a coincidence that hemp smoking became popular around this time. Likely the former slaves had recognized the hemp plants as cannabis from their experience in Africa.

It's funny centrifuge, the more ganja you grow the more you recognize phenotypes from your past. Looking at your pics and your new ones of the dried stuff it's very similar to hybrid strains I've grown and enjoyed. (from California not Jamaica but who knows where they came from earlier) If you get the chance to run it outdoors you'll be pleased with the results. I'd guess finish by the end of September.

I feel like breeders in places like Jamaica don't get enough credit for the work they do. It's a tragedy the old landraces are getting lost but the growers in Jamaica love their ganja and are breeding great stuff. It hits home when you look at Mustafunk's pictures the modern hybrids look great although I'd love to see some old school thin leaf Jamaican. A big overlooked factor is how indoor growing has influenced growing in the Caribbean and Jamaica. You can't grow the old Narrow leaf types indoors for production. It's not a coincidence the Indica craze took hold in the 80s when indoor lighting tech improved.

Gainsville Green, nice. I don't know much about old East Coast strains. Don't know the specifics but the original GG was a piney hybrid, mostly sativa. By 1980 it was getting skunkier and more Indica. Not sure if the Micanopy Madness was a hybrid of the GG by an Indica or a different strain altogether but it was much more of an indoor strain, skunky and indica leaning. Of course everywhere ganja gets a reputation, if it's Maui Wowie, Acapulco Gold, Lambsbread, or Gainsville Green, once the reputation is built if it's excellent ganja people will call it by it's moniker regardless whether it's the genuine article. All the OGs nowadays are a great example of this.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I was reading about the origins of the Hunter Valley cannabis infestation recently and it struck me that if everything I read about Captain Cook & Joseph Banks was true then the same types of cannabis plants they tried in NSW were probably spread around the rest of the British empire as well. Theres so much else of east India in the West Indies, mostly transported there by the British empire, that it wouldn't surprise me either.
 
therevverend

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
hanks, I was reading about the origins of the Hunter Valley cannabis infestation recently and it struck me that if everything I read about Captain Cook & Joseph Banks was true then the same types of cannabis plants they tried in NSW were probably spread around the rest of the British empire as well. Theres so much else of east India in the West Indies, mostly transported there by the British empire, that it wouldn't surprise me either.
Click to expand...

Let me check my sources maybe I'll start a thread about Australian hemp in the landrace section. I'm fairly certain it was British hemp a lot of it was grown in Austalia, most feral hemp descended from it.

They tried growing 'Indian hemp' but it was unsuitable because it wasn't a high yielding temperate hemp strain. I'm going to look for references to growing Indian drug cannabis I think they were growing a small amount in Australia to supply British medicinal needs which were surprisingly large throughout the 19th century. I believe most of their hashish and ganja came from India.
 
Mustafunk

Mustafunk

Brand new oldschool
Veteran
centr1fuge said:
It is beyond helpful. Thank you for your generosity and time/effort spent sharing. I'm so sorry, but, I'm completely clueless as to what NLD/BLD stands for (NLD = Northern Lights dominant?).
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, yeah as they posted above that stands for classic Narrow Leaf x Broad Leaf hybrids (instead of the classic Sativa x Indica nomenclature), which also represent the historical transition when the older heirloom cultivars started becoming hybridized with faster Broad Leaf genetics (hashplants from Hindu Kush: Afghan, Pakistan, etc) hoping that will cut the flowering time as well as add better production, structure, potency, resin and all those "more desirable" characteristics for commercial crops.

Unfortunately this started happening all around the world althought it first happened in California back then with the classic hybrid cultivars (Blueberry, Skunk, Early Pearl, Northern Lights, Big Bud...), where the growers realized they couldn't finish their import (tropical) plants properly before the season ended and frosts came.

Then I think it was something favored by both greedyness of dealers and illegality of the plant in most places, as everyone was trying to make the most of their gardens and crops. But the result was that most old narrow leaf tropical cultivars got extinct in most traditional ganja producing areas as a result.

Cheers.:tiphat:
 
willydread

willydread

Dread & Alive
Veteran
I often wondered if, with the legalization, this mix of indica and sativa over the years can not evolve towards the nld side, more suited to the tropics ...
 
J

jaded1

We still get the high grade sensi from Jamaica that has been the same light green nld buds since the 80's.
 
PDX Dopesmoker

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
therevverend said:
Let me check my sources maybe I'll start a thread about Australian hemp in the landrace section. I'm fairly certain it was British hemp a lot of it was grown in Austalia, most feral hemp descended from it.

They tried growing 'Indian hemp' but it was unsuitable because it wasn't a high yielding temperate hemp strain. I'm going to look for references to growing Indian drug cannabis I think they were growing a small amount in Australia to supply British medicinal needs which were surprisingly large throughout the 19th century. I believe most of their hashish and ganja came from India.
Click to expand...

Thanks, pot plants that live in the wild interest me. Thats what got me interested in the Hunter Valley cannabis infestation to begin with, learning about the natural habits of a wild cannabis plant might make me better at taking care of and understanding the captive ones. I read somewhere that Banks made a mistake when he sourced the seed for the colony and that what he brought was medicinal Indian cannabis plants which wasn't useful for hemp. Do you have any idea about the origin of Jamaican native worship of the hindu goddess Kali? Did that come with the seeds?
 
willydread

willydread

Dread & Alive
Veteran
PDX Dopesmoker said:
Thanks, pot plants that live in the wild interest me. Thats what got me interested in the Hunter Valley cannabis infestation to begin with, learning about the natural habits of a wild cannabis plant might make me better at taking care of and understanding the captive ones. I read somewhere that Banks made a mistake when he sourced the seed for the colony and that what he brought was medicinal Indian cannabis plants which wasn't useful for hemp. Do you have any idea about the origin of Jamaican native worship of the hindu goddess Kali? Did that come with the seeds?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure it's collie and not kali.
In fact the Jamaicans called the Indian workers
"collie", then collie weed = Indian weed.
 
willydread

willydread

Dread & Alive
Veteran
If you look at the picture of Peter tosh, you will notice little males, so that crop was not sinsemilla, besides you can admire the thin sativa leaves ...






In this image (1978) you can see that the plant has a different structure, probably one of the first hybrids ....
picture.php
 
therevverend

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Do you have any idea about the origin of Jamaican native worship of the hindu goddess Kali? Did that come with the seeds?
Click to expand...

Jamaicans are very Christian people I don't think Hinduism ever gained a foothold on the island. Trinidad and Tobago has quite a few Hindus. Almost 20%, the population is quite noticeably East Indian. Lots of tasty curries.

A friend of mine in high school's parents were rich hippies, owned land on the island of Tobago. One of my deep regrets is not taking the opportunity to travel at the time it sounded incredible. I've always wondered why Trini strains are so rare considering what a stoner's paradise it was and probably still is. It seems to get overlooked but if I make a trip to the Caribbean I'd favor it over the tourist meccas like Jamaica.

It looks like they're headed in the right direction..

https://www.talkingdrugs.org/trinidad-and-tobago-to-decriminalise-cannabis-consider-legalisation

And from Wikipedia:

In 1915 Trinidad created the Ganja Ordinance, by which all cannabis sold on the island was gathered into bonded warehouses and distributed only to sellers who paid a license fee, similar to the system found in Bengal.[1] Cannabis was banned in the islands in 1925.[2] In 2018, the head of the Caribbean Collective for Justice has called for the nation to decriminalize cannabis.
 
willydread

willydread

Dread & Alive
Veteran
Trinidad (like a Jamaica) is a beautiful but dangerous island, and where the people are poor and hangry, the violence is easy...
I would to look to others island...
 
Goodherb

Goodherb

Well-known member
Therevverend, what willyDread said, do gold true. You could come to my small island (SAINT VINCENT and the GRENADINES)good ganga culture. But what is interested,is just like Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago, what use to be refer to as local strains are hardly recognized as such ,if at all . Some
foreign medical cannabis companies here, hope that they'll find it. The modern gene pool has over run land. The local/traditional farmers has falling deep ,head over heed with the kushites (pun intended)ggelato's,cookies .. As good as some are. Myself and many of the older-schoolers ,yearns for the introspective,meditative,motivational strains.
But they're not aware of what's out ,mainly lamb breath, purple haze,but 99% of them ,myself included never smoke them.
It's an invasion from northern modern marijuana money movement!
 
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