So the PH doesn't rise in the medium if you water right after mixing? Why do some people not have problems without bubbling and why do some people in this thread say PH doesn't matter while others say it does?
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Earth Juice PH
- Thread starter highbrid1
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So the PH doesn't rise in the medium if you water right after mixing? Why do some people not have problems without bubbling and why do some people in this thread say PH doesn't matter while others say it does?
GetUpStandUp
Active member
Just so many factors to your or others questions to be exact, everything is a guessing game until you perfect YOUR style, cuz water, strain, medium, nutes, even climate can all alter or mess with PH. The ones who have no PH meters like me, well first I grow for self, so no need to get all pro style on everything, I am a cheap date, but Organic is the best in my book, its what MJ is, its what the planet, and all the fuss is over, mj is natural. The more natural you get, and use all the natural things around you the better it and you become.
EJ is more for this type of grower, not for the new grower who grows Synthetic and is use to the steroid effect in the plant. So if your going to use an organic feed you must get your soil in check before all else, even before planting, I know it sucks but you must. Organic soil is alive, so many things working, and living working off each other, some of these things if more abundant can effect PH, some of these things eat off each other, so if the thing is eaten all up, then they both are out of equation now, as one is gone because one ate it, and the one ate it will die because nothing for it to eat. So you get natural PH spikes in your soil.
The trick is to establish a good compost that has cooked for a while this is not only food, but filled with new army of life, keep them happy and alive you see no problem, they die off you see problems. My only theory of all the different PH readings is that the soil is still establishing, the plant was put in too early while the soil was lacking, or to strong in one thing, then the plant started taking from that soil which depleats the life in soil adding to what ever shortage you see in leaves. So at times we think its all PH when in fact its a banana in compost not fully decomposed, and adding to much on one thing.
Synthetics will kill your soil life, anything man made is a problem, or will be. A very good thing to help with PH flux is Limestone powder, not dolimite lime, DL disapates to fast, and can not sustain long ph power in a alive soil. This is why I use distilled to water, its at 7, and so will my soil with the limestone, so I go heavy on citris fruits, lemons oranges, grapefruit tomatoes in the compost, hella bananas, and greensand, Limestone, gypsum, and phosphate powders in the worm bin, this is used when its all poo-ed up, and top dressed when needed.
And no I dont use PH meter, never will unless testing a new water source, just remember she will grow all by her self, but man adds to much to the equation when pushing her to push out more, if you job demanded manditory 3hour overtime when ever they felt, how stressed would you be after the first day, ease her, guide her, give her treats when she is happy, she will surprise you every time. Good luck.
been using ej since og days. even used it my greenhouses. i dont bubble it. got tired of all that bubbling and experimented using it fresh in raised beds organic soil. moved on to container plants . aint going back to bubbling. i think because i use it weak it works for me. dont plan on switching anytime soon . i will try other organic ferts tho.
Tactical Farmer
Member
I like the last two posts 
i agree but when getupstandup said dolomite dissipates too fast .i dont agree with that part
GetUpStandUp
Active member
Yes your right, but talking reusing soils and running thru compost bin it will. I know DL is used quite regularly, with great results, but in all organic, and using rock dust at higher rates it helps with the balance using limestone, its higher rated calcium can be this factor, not sure. Its basically High brix growing, remineralizing your soil, if you used gypsum, and phosphate by themselves, the DL has way less cal., also depending on how much used too. I just push the Limestone powder because its multipal benifits with stonger ph balance for all thing added to the equation.
I personally love the stuff for the calcium, as it is the important building block for everything on the planet, and most the time is the cause of issues, or it may be magnesium, this stuff just does the job better. For me anyways, Hell I aint no pro thats for sure, and super your pretty on when you speak, I listen, but on this little fact I only push because its whats working for me at the moment, and thats coming off of a nightmare of trying all kinds of things. So this was just my fix for my issues.
i think some folks have ph issues cause their soil mix blows . make sure to add lime ,castings,compost. if i was running straight sunshine 4 with out any extras i bet i would have ph issues.
GetUpStandUp
Active member
This is true, as I am learning that plants can grow really quick, and big if they have all they need at everytime it goes for food, its when those things are depleated the plant starts to compinsate for losses, inturn eventually start locking things out that are abundant still in soil, but cant use without the thing that is lacking from the soil, its like a balancing act. Lots of calcium use from plants will yeild the plant lots of big cell structure, but if there aint something to fill these new cells, you have an issue, its really majical, and brings a relationship to this life form that really communicates to us if we speak its language.
What if you're using "stable" mixes like FF Ocean Forrest? You still need to add peat(?) to keep the PH down? Never had the problem with FFOF using other nutes.. no amendments ever needed.
Here is something I have saved that I picked up on a organic thread from this forum a couple years ago that may be helpfull....scrappy
Soil Biology and pH by Jeff Lowenfels
The success of the AeroGarden, the first plug-and-grow aeroponic kitchen appliance, is testament to the fact that ordinary people do not understand the concept of pH and don't want to deal with it in their growing situations. Make it so you can practice hydroponics without this chemistry barrier and they will come, apparently.
Frankly, the concept of pH also confuses soil gardeners. Heck, the definition of pH was inadvertently reversed in my book "Teaming With Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web." (Yes, some readers noticed; I received two "you made a mistake" notes. But that's not as many as I thought I'd receive.) Fortunately, the mistake was corrected in time for the second printing.
In any case, soil gardeners have been told certain plants require acidic conditions- for example, rhododendrons and azaleas- or else they won't grow. The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.
A bit of quick pH review is in order (if only to make amends for the mistake in my book). You may remember that pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution on a scale of 1 to 14; 1 being most acidic and 14 being most alkaline. A more technical description is that pH is the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, H+. If you have lots of H+, the pH is low, or acidic. If you have few of them, the pH is high, or alkaline.
If you are adding fertilizers and using chemicals, you are stuck in the chemical realm. Organic gardeners, soil food webbies in particular, realize that pH has more to do with biology than it does with chemistry. That's because of the way plant roots take up nutrients. Root hair surfaces are covered with positive electrical hydrogen cations. Think of these charges as ping-pong balls. If soil particles are small enough, their surfaces are covered by these ping-pong ball charges, both positive (cation) charges and negative (anion) charges. These cations are not limited to hydrogen; they also include calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and ammonium. All are important plant nutrients.
When a root encounters a clay or organic particle, it can exchange one of its hydrogen cation for another positive one from the particle. It can choose from calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen, as these are all cations carried by clay and silt and are all, as luck would have it, major plant nutrients.
This is known, incidentally, as cation exchange capacity, or CEC. Sand and silt have low CECs, because they comprised of particles that are too large to hold electrical charges. This is why humus and clay are needed to make soil good. They are extremely small particles and can carry cations.
So, back to pH. Every time a plant root exchanges a hydrogen ion for a nutrient ion, it increases the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. Thus, the pH goes down and things should become more acidic.
Ah, but things usually balance out because the positive cations on the root surface also attract negative charges. Here, hydroxy ions (OH-) are the exchange ping-pong balls, and addition of hydroxy ions lowers the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution, and pH goes up.
I know this still sounds like chemistry and not biology. However, each plant has an optimum pH requirement. What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.
So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn't have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.
Soil Biology and pH by Jeff Lowenfels
The success of the AeroGarden, the first plug-and-grow aeroponic kitchen appliance, is testament to the fact that ordinary people do not understand the concept of pH and don't want to deal with it in their growing situations. Make it so you can practice hydroponics without this chemistry barrier and they will come, apparently.
Frankly, the concept of pH also confuses soil gardeners. Heck, the definition of pH was inadvertently reversed in my book "Teaming With Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web." (Yes, some readers noticed; I received two "you made a mistake" notes. But that's not as many as I thought I'd receive.) Fortunately, the mistake was corrected in time for the second printing.
In any case, soil gardeners have been told certain plants require acidic conditions- for example, rhododendrons and azaleas- or else they won't grow. The solution advocated by most experienced gardeners is not dissimilar from what a hydroponics grower would do: adjust the pH with chemicals, such as agricultural lime, to make the soil more alkaline. To make alkaline soil more acid, we are told to add sulfur. Because they are chemical changes, these solutions work for a short time. But to me pH is a biological matter.
A bit of quick pH review is in order (if only to make amends for the mistake in my book). You may remember that pH is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution on a scale of 1 to 14; 1 being most acidic and 14 being most alkaline. A more technical description is that pH is the measurement of the concentration of hydrogen ions, H+. If you have lots of H+, the pH is low, or acidic. If you have few of them, the pH is high, or alkaline.
If you are adding fertilizers and using chemicals, you are stuck in the chemical realm. Organic gardeners, soil food webbies in particular, realize that pH has more to do with biology than it does with chemistry. That's because of the way plant roots take up nutrients. Root hair surfaces are covered with positive electrical hydrogen cations. Think of these charges as ping-pong balls. If soil particles are small enough, their surfaces are covered by these ping-pong ball charges, both positive (cation) charges and negative (anion) charges. These cations are not limited to hydrogen; they also include calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, and ammonium. All are important plant nutrients.
When a root encounters a clay or organic particle, it can exchange one of its hydrogen cation for another positive one from the particle. It can choose from calcium, potassium, sodium, magnesium, iron, ammonium and hydrogen, as these are all cations carried by clay and silt and are all, as luck would have it, major plant nutrients.
This is known, incidentally, as cation exchange capacity, or CEC. Sand and silt have low CECs, because they comprised of particles that are too large to hold electrical charges. This is why humus and clay are needed to make soil good. They are extremely small particles and can carry cations.
So, back to pH. Every time a plant root exchanges a hydrogen ion for a nutrient ion, it increases the concentration of hydrogen ions in solution. Thus, the pH goes down and things should become more acidic.
Ah, but things usually balance out because the positive cations on the root surface also attract negative charges. Here, hydroxy ions (OH-) are the exchange ping-pong balls, and addition of hydroxy ions lowers the concentration of hydrogen ions in the solution, and pH goes up.
I know this still sounds like chemistry and not biology. However, each plant has an optimum pH requirement. What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don't) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant's rhizosphere by the plant's exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.
So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn't have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.
blooper
Active member
so pH swinging is normal with EJ? i just bubbled a medium dose along with a handful of very high quality, myco inoculated EWC for 24 hours and the pH is over 8. just checked the meter and it's correct. this is the first time i've bubbled the EJ at all and so far the gals are looking beautiful so i'm considering either just going back to a tried and true grow nutrient until the organic amendments kick in or figuring this out. maybe another 12 hours with some peat moss bubbled in to bring the pH down? also have humic acid (TM7) available. i know a lot of organic growers say throw the damn pH meter away and let the living soil do the work but work sucks so i figure better to keep it easy on the microbes.
For pH control, I brew my EJ nute mixes, inoculated with EWC and/or a couple of kinds of compost, monitoring the pH till it's in range, then apply. BTW, the mycos won't survive in a brew. Also, I don't brew EJ Microblast. I add it just before applying, otherwise the Fe and possibly others can fall out of solution. Good luck. -granger
blooper
Active member
thanks Granger2. wish i could find high quality castings that come without mycos. i'm just using the lower dose of EJ Grow right now to help after transplant but i'm beginning to think there just aren't enough dry amendments in this soil. i couldn't get an exact recipe from the soil supplier but i was assured it would do fine for a few months but i might have to get a full line of organic nutrients unless a little salt isn't detrimental to microbial life. i wouldn't mind using up the rest of my hydroponic nutrients but i'm hoping to keep a healthy living soil environment so i can just amend and re-use the soil next season.
A light hand at feeding poses no problems. Very light for any PK flower style feed. I'm always proponent of using what is available/you have at hand.
It's a common misconception that conventional fertilizers sanitize microbes from soil. The issue comes with constant feeding. Diversity of soil microbes suffers as the plant becomes less dependent on the microbial loop/decomposition cycle for nutrition.
It's a common misconception that conventional fertilizers sanitize microbes from soil. The issue comes with constant feeding. Diversity of soil microbes suffers as the plant becomes less dependent on the microbial loop/decomposition cycle for nutrition.
still rocking ej .. I love that the bloom has no n.... I do not use the grow...bloom,meta k,microblast,humic, and sometimes hi brix,catalyst...yeehaw ...supermanlives indeed
Hello Ground Up!
I've been searching for info about growing in hydro with the sugar peak line. I'm changing over from the over-priced AN line.... I know lol
Cant find much info about it, but have heard some good things. Perhaps you could enlighten me? AN line is just too damn expensive and from what I read, its a bit of a scam/rip off (?)
Any info would be much appreciated
I've been searching for info about growing in hydro with the sugar peak line. I'm changing over from the over-priced AN line.... I know lol
Cant find much info about it, but have heard some good things. Perhaps you could enlighten me? AN line is just too damn expensive and from what I read, its a bit of a scam/rip off (?)
Any info would be much appreciated
