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New Charles Bukowski and John Martin Sabotaged Bukowski

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
A new Bukowski book came out this month, The Mathematics of the Breath and the Way: On Writers and Writing. Not my favorite subjects to read about but it's Bukowski.

It's easy to get distracted by the mythology he created about himself, the surly skid row alcoholic poet, but he's a fucking great writer. One of the few poets I can read without dozing off.

Years ago I was looking at a book of his poetry that came out after he died. It sucked. It was like a book that was incomplete when the author died, then the book was finished by a hack to make money off the dead guy.

It turned out I was correct. After Bukowski died his editor Charles Martin rewrote most of the poems for his posthumous collections. Removing curse words, references to drinking, rewriting, changing the meaning of his poetry.

I'm not sure why and he's never said but he might have been making Bukowski more palatable for mainstream audiences. And I doubt he ever respected Bukowski's writing skills. Ironic, because Martin is a terrible writer his changes are awful.

If you want to see examples check out The senseless, tragic rape of Charles Bukowski's ghost by John Martin at the Bukowski.net. Sad stuff, Bukowski stabbed in the back by his longtime editor and friend Martin.

Good news is that when Mrs. Bukowski found out about this Martin was fired and there's new editors that respect and enjoy Bukowski's work. The new stuff that's come out the last couple years is either unedited (poetry) or edited the way an editor should edit, not completely changed into something shitty.

With the internet it's impossible to hide, I'm sure Martin thought no one would discover his treachery. There's plenty of manuscripts to compare to the published versions to see what was changed.
 

hamstring

Active member
Veteran
Bukowski

Wow he is/was one of my favorites. I am in my mid fifties and in my late twenties early 30's I read almost everything he and Sylvia Plath wrote. I have loaned out most of my favs over the years and many have not returned.

Bukowski spoke to me because he was a common man. Worked for the post office and spoke the language of the common man. Plath was from the nonworking class but she spoke to me too. As you get older you look at life through a different lens. Nice to hear his name again because his poetry has molded me forever.

I have a question for thee Bukowski lovers. What was his favorite author/book? Cleft palate is a clue.
 

nksv

Member
I remember seeing one of his after death books in a book store and wondered wtf. Picked it up, read a bit and it was god awful. You just knew it wasn't Buk. I always feared getting any of the Ecco reprints etc...got Betting on The Muse recently on Ecco and it's all good. Phew.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Betting on the Muse was the last good one. It came out in 1996 I believe. Martin destroyed the poetry collections that came after.

Until 2017 when Storm for the Living and the Dead came out. I've gotten it, it's good. It's edited by Abel Debritto. I've read stuff he's blogged online about Bukowski. Seems like a decent human being. He's used the original manuscripts as Bukowski typed them.

I stopped loaning out my Bukowski books. I've learned my lesson.

People criticize Bukowski because he writes about people no one cares about. The poor, alcoholics, prostitutes, societies' losers. Which is why I like Bukowski. I'd rather read about a misfit that doesn't fit into society then a guy with a job who goes to church every week.
 

nksv

Member
Yeah man, I lost a TON of Black Sparrow editions. Pretty devastated and really don't want the Ecco editions but trying to rise above these things!

Well, look at the world. Look what's popular, it's always better to be into the ones who are criticized by the common realm. That man is a western shaman.
 
T

Teddybrae

I was given a paperback in the 80's of his short stories " ... something or other, Ejaculations or something of a Madman". (can't recall. too stoned to search.)



some of those stories were SO funny and others oozed Pathos. (there is one which cans Cannabis smokers for their affected cool ... man)



No doubt his style is unique ...


So unique I haven't yet found anyone to pass the book onto.


It lies complete but unglued in a brown paper bag at the bottom of my Office cupboard.


So much for Great Style ...



Cheers from the Land of Oz!
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
https://https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uOdol3IdLJc

I’m not tech savvy but I like to read. Here is a sample of Bukowski narrating. It’s a pretty powerful poem.

Yeah that's a great poem. Your link doesn't work properly and I'm not a fan of the music playing in the background. If you like it, that's fine, but to me it distracts. Here's a link that hopefully works better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdX9gkfJqgE
People like to call the poem Born Into This (the name of a 2003 documentary that's pretty good except for all the John Martin screen time) but it's title is Dinosauria, We.
I popped up here today because I was reading some new manuscripts and came across some more bad 'editing'. After throwing up I decided to post it here as an example of Martin's destructive rewrites. It's just a small part of a larger poem.

The Original Bukowski:

Too much literature has been created
as a counter-function against
loss
of late, I've preferred writing when
I'm feeling good
good or good and drunk,
it doesn't matter

John Martin:

too many of my poems have been created
only in response to losses such as this
of late, I've preferred writing only when I'm feeling good
good or very good
it doesn't matter

The rhythm, nuances, and Bukowski's personality have been destroyed. In Martin's world Bukowski has just a guy who liked feeling good. No drugs or alcohol needed. He feels so good that he regrets writing poems when he wasn't feeling good.
This kind of shit doesn't make me feel good or bad. It makes me feel angry.
 
T

Teddybrae

People criticize Bukowski because he writes about people no one cares about. The poor, alcoholics, prostitutes, societies' losers. Which is why I like Bukowski. I'd rather read about a misfit that doesn't fit into society then a guy with a job who goes to church every week.


Yes. That is principally what I enjoy about Bukowski.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
A new book was just released, Bukowski on Drinking. A collection of his works on his favorite topic, getting drunk. I think it contains letters, poems, essays, stories. I know it's got some unreleased stuff along with material that's appeared in past collections.

They've released other collections like this, Bukowski on Love, Bukowski on Cats. Didn't bother to pick those up but I'll get this one. I'm sure the editor had a lot of good material to choose from.
 

Raho

Active member
Veteran
A new book was just released, Bukowski on Drinking. A collection of his works on his favorite topic, getting drunk. I think it contains letters, poems, essays, stories. I know it's got some unreleased stuff along with material that's appeared in past collections.

They've released other collections like this, Bukowski on Love, Bukowski on Cats. Didn't bother to pick those up but I'll get this one. I'm sure the editor had a lot of good material to choose from.


I'm gettin this for sure. Thanks for the thread Rev :tiphat:
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
If I didn't recommend it earlier I should now, check out the Bukowski.net website.

https://bukowski.net/

It's amazing for Bukowski fans. Every few weeks there's new unedited poems taken from manuscripts, you can find out about Bukowski merchandise for sale, people that knew Bukowski stop by, it's a great site to browse around on a rainy day.

There's a collection of pictures there that's awesome, Bukowski had an amazing face, beautiful in it's desecration. There's a database of most of his work, when it was published and what it's appeared in. Recordings of his readings.

The caretaker of the website explains the deal about John Martin rewriting and ruining Bukowski's poetry after Buk died. Much better then I've tried to here.

https://mjpbooks.com/blog/the-sense...is-ghost-by-john-martins-black-sparrow-press/

It's got comparisons between the poems as Bukowski wrote them. To the versions that were printed after he died when John Martin was able to fuck them up. I'll copy one here as a quick example from the site. The poem is called Basic. It was published in Slouching Towards Nirvana but the original manuscript as Bukowski typed it is very different. This was written around the time Bukowski was dying.

The original manuscript goes:

basic

the short poem
like the short life
may not be best
but generally
it's
easier.

this is a short poem
from a
long
life

sitting here
looking at
you

then
leaving.

The version re-written by John Martin goes:

basic

the short poem
like the short life
may not be the best thing
but generally
it's
easier.

this is a short
poem at the end
of a
long
life

sitting here
looking at
you
now

then
saying
Adios!

Ha ha I'm not a poetry expert or anything but the second version makes me want to puke. Adios?
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
Oh man I just saw the list of stories, letters, and poems from On Drinking. I've decided I have to buy it, the ones I've already read are excellent and the new ones look really good. These new editors are dedicated and into Bukowski, they know their shit.

For sometime I've been planning on going through my Bukowski material and writing about his opinion On Cannabis. He usually has a smug superior attitude, cannabis is all right but it's weak compared to alcohol. What's cool is that he talks about smoking and attitudes from the 1930s to the 1970s, it's hard to find info on cannabis earlier then 1970. A lot of his attitude comes from putting down his audience, the hippies. He loves having a combative relationship with his readers and talking down cannabis and talking up alcohol is one way to do it. But it's obvious he's not one to pass once a joint gets fired up..

I've always had the exact opposite opinion, when I was in my teens I had an epiphany. I realized that alcohol is all right but it numbs you, cuts you off from your true emotions and reasoning. While cannabis connects you to your spirituality, feelings and emotions. At that moment I realized my drug of choice would always be cannabis.

And my feelings about alcohol also stretch to other drugs, opiates, cocaine, all those types of drugs numb you and detach you from your body and your feelings. Cannabis is unique in that it intensifies your connection to your body and your feelings about life and the world around you.
 

grayeyes

Active member
I worked with Mrs. Bukowski's lawyer. I KNOW she bit hard on Martin and rightfully so. We who appreciate Charles work would never go for 'fake'.

Good for them.
 

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
As good a time as ever to post one of my favorite poems. It appeared in a posthumous collections re-written by John Martin. The title changed to 'Democracy and the meaning changed thus dulling the impact of the piece. I'll post it here the way Hank wrote it:




the other day I saw a man reading the Wall Street Journal as if it did contain something---


the problem, of course, isn't within the System, it's the
parts that make up the System--such as
the first person you pass on the street on any given
day: multiply
him or
her by
3 or 4 or 30 or 40 million
and you will know
immediately
why things remain in a non-functional state
or
worse.

I wish I had a cure for these chess pieces of
Humanity...

they've undergone any number of false
cures

but the one on the way
NOW
will cure almost
everybody:

bright at
last: one bunghole, one
intestine, one last giant
wail
swallowing
Noah
the Ark
the Crucifiction
the Crucifixation
the fleas
the floozies
the fucks
the fakers
name
it

the problem never was the
System, the problem was

you
 
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