Need advice please

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

hello,

First time grower here, could use a little help

I've chosen Dutch Passion seeds: Auto Night Queen.
I have a 4x4x5 tent with a Viparspectra 900w led light.
For now only the veg switch is turned on and it sits @ 90cm (36") from the seedlings (recommended user instructions distance)
For now since the setup is in the basement the light runs 24/24
Grow medium = 50% coco, 50% perlite, 15L (4Gal) pots.
Flushed the pots with ph'ed TAP water to which i added half of recommended strength CalMag.
It took 120L (30Gal) to get the same ph drained back out, than i placed the pots in the tent to warm them up.
24h later i started the seeds in Root-it sponges, which i have soaked in Root-it FirstFeed at the recommended strength @ 5.8 ph.
The seeds all popped at the same time around 75 hours later, up and untill than everything seemed fine.

In the following days some of them started to show some yellowing on the pointed leaves, nothing dramatic, just doesn't seem right.
This is a picture of the most affected one, now @ day 7&1/2 from seed touching water.

Now since i bought my ph & ppm pen in a little store, where the dude didn't know much bout it, i ended up with pens without the necessary calibration tools to start using the ppm pen right away.
Result i only have been able to test it very recently, and came to the conclusion that the tapwater comes out @ 0.9EC, what seems very high imo, as i added the recommended strength Root-it to the sponges that might have been 1.5 if not 2.0EC, what could have been overfeeding them maybe..?

I have now ordered a reverse osmosis waterfilter, but it might take up to a week before i get it delivered here.

Any tips on what might have been the cause of this and what steps to take..?

These are pics of the 2 others affected, much less than the one above tho, the other 4 are not affected at all, strange..

Thx for reading, have a nice weekend.
Blunt

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

I forgot some important info:

T° in the tent is between 24.6°C & 25.2°C at all times.
The humidity is between 59% & 64% at all times.

yts farmer · Jun 25, 2017

What brand coco are you using?

Not saying your wrong or anything but might of been better to go through the potting up process, that way you can see what sort of root system you have got going on below ground.

Can you tell why your adding cal mag, first week above ground you should just give water as seed plant's have enough neuts stored.

What is root it, is it just a root stimulator?

Peace.

Speed of green · Jun 25, 2017

That tap water is terrible, go buy some distilled water until the r/o arrives. Most grocery stores carry it in the water section. distilled is the same as r/o.

The pots you are using as way too big for the seedlings, they drink very little at this stage of life, it would take weeks for them to dry out that big container, they will show signs of overwatering and the PH will go crazy during those weeks.

You can poke some holes in the bottom of disposable cups and transplant into them for a week or two until they get a few more sets of leaves. make sure the cups drain properly.

Coco and perlite are both inert, that means they have no nutrients in them. you need to add nutrients with every watering, take it easy on the seedlings though, 1/4 strength is a good baseline to start with.

You can buy calibration fluid at most hydro stores & online.
I would youtube search for a video on how to calibrate your specific brand/model. This is a crucial step to ensure a successful harvest.

Good luck!

HqFarms · Jun 25, 2017

There is no need for food at all. The cotyledons have all the food they need at that stage. Just water them with ph water. I prefer around 6.0ph. I also won't do complete soil drenches until they get their third set of real leaves about. I use a spray bottle to keep my coco wet

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

yts farmer said:
What brand coco are you using?

Not saying your wrong or anything but might of been better to go through the potting up process, that way you can see what sort of root system you have got going on below ground.

Can you tell why your adding cal mag, first week above ground you should just give water as seed plant's have enough neuts stored.

What is root it, is it just a root stimulator?

Peace.

Hello,

I used Plagron coco.

For the roots, yesterday i accidentally hit one of the root sponges while working in the tent, and did exactly what you asked since it was almost removed anyway, there was roots popping out everywhere but barely, so i suppose they just started to make their way through the little sponge.

The reason why i added the CalMag to the coco: saw that in some guide i'm following.
They should not have touched that in the first week anyway or weren't supposed to.
As said above the roots did just pop through the little sponge yesterday.

Root-it is a root stimulator yes, i just followed the instructions for that, pré soaking the sponges in the root stimulator.

Thx for your response & time.
Blunt

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

Speed of green said:
That tap water is terrible, go buy some distilled water until the r/o arrives. Most grocery stores carry it in the water section. distilled is the same as r/o.

The pots you are using as way too big for the seedlings, they drink very little at this stage of life, it would take weeks for them to dry out that big container, they will show signs of overwatering and the PH will go crazy during those weeks.

You can poke some holes in the bottom of disposable cups and transplant into them for a week or two until they get a few more sets of leaves. make sure the cups drain properly.

Coco and perlite are both inert, that means they have no nutrients in them. you need to add nutrients with every watering, take it easy on the seedlings though, 1/4 strength is a good baseline to start with.

You can buy calibration fluid at most hydro stores & online.
I would youtube search for a video on how to calibrate your specific brand/model. This is a crucial step to ensure a successful harvest.

Good luck!

Hello,

Yeah for the tap water i figured that was a big problem, not much i can do but not returning to that store anymore

For the pots they are autoflower plants, i've read countless times i should NOT transplant them, they needed to be planted in their final container..?

I have not fed them yet, waiting for the 2nd node to feed them for the very first time, just added the CALMag in the coco that's it.

I have everything i need now, EC pen is calibrated, not sure why you think it isn't, how would i know my tapwater is 0.9EC otherwise

Problem with stores around here is no one even heard of hydro

I bought the 2 BlueLab pens there, took like 10 days before he got them, and he didn't know these needed to be calibrated..
So i ordered online the calibration kit, not knowing each pen needed a different kit..
So i ended up with the Ph pen ready to use and had to re-order the other pen's calibration kit, that's how i ended up with the EC pen not ready when i started the grow

Thx for your answer & time.
Blunt

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

yts farmer said:
What is root it, is it just a root stimulator?

Forgot to add this in my reply

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

HqFarms said:
There is no need for food at all. The cotyledons have all the food they need at that stage. Just water them with ph water. I prefer around 6.0ph. I also won't do complete soil drenches until they get their third set of real leaves about. I use a spray bottle to keep my coco wet

Hello,

I just added the CalMag as i read countless times i need to add that to the water all the time since coco doesn't have enough of it in itself.

But i didn't water with it, just flushed the pots the very first time to clean the coco and get runoff same ph as the water that got in.
I didn't water the pots since i planted the sponges in it, just kept the top of the sponges wet with around 10 drops a day pure water ph 5.8
It was 0.9EC tap water tho, wish i knew how bad it was by than

Phases · Jun 25, 2017

Yeah I will have to agree with the above comments that were made, the water quality will definitely cause problems. I recently moved and the water is .6-.7 ec and I could notice the issues within a few days of using the tap water. I've now resorted to refilling the bug 5 gal jugs of RO until I get my plumbing all sorted and get an RO machine.

And definitely next time put them in cups or small pots so they don't stay wet for so long. Need to get fresh o2 to the roots.

Hopefully everything recovers nicely. The water change will definitely help big time.

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

Phases said:
Yeah I will have to agree with the above comments that were made, the water quality will definitely cause problems. I recently moved and the water is .6-.7 ec and I could notice the issues within a few days of using the tap water. I've now resorted to refilling the bug 5 gal jugs of RO until I get my plumbing all sorted and get an RO machine.

And definitely next time put them in cups or small pots so they don't stay wet for so long. Need to get fresh o2 to the roots.

Hopefully everything recovers nicely. The water change will definitely help big time.

Hello,

So it was wrong than what i read that you CANNOT ever transplant autoflowers..?

I have to admit that i just now understanded why you guys tell me the pots are too big, the water in the coco will not dry up since there are no roots in it yet to suck it up, that is when the fresh o2 gets to the roots, right..?

Think i might have forgotten to tell a bit more about me in the very first message:
I'm really a complete noob at this

I'm a recently disabled electrician, this is my very first encounter with nature haha, i even lived my whole life in gardenless houses, never even had a plant inside

I did spend about 3 months on youtube hours/day, but that's about it..
So please don't be scared to treat me as a noob, couldn't be more true haha

So now back to the topic, what should i now do than..?
I ordered already the RO filter and could get distilled water ASAP
but..
even if i had RO water right now, if i understand well, watering them now is a really bad idea since that will restart the wet/dry cycle that is already compromised because of the size of the pots..? :s

Thx for your answer(s)

Mikell · Jun 25, 2017

All this malarkey about not feeding seedlings is for other mediums.

I put sprouted seeds in 0.5-1L containers, Canna coco watered with 0.6-0.8EC 5.8-6.2pH base feed. Works every time.

Seeds will adapt to the environment they start in. Think about seeds popping naturally in the great outdoors. This soil is not devoid of nutrients.

I don't know much about autoflowers. You can sprout in containers that large but it is something to do when you have experience.

Clean starting water, nutrients in EC/pH range and a wet to moist cycle for watering frequency until they are roughly the size or greater of the pot.

This cycle will not go well, there is little room for error with autoflower. Most people have issues with new mediums, more so with coco and little experience overall. We have all been there. Do not be discouraged, pay attention and learn as much as you can.

Think of a loaf in the oven. Maybe you can see it is not cooking so well, but it is too late to make dramatic change and you ride it out.

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

Mikell said:
I don't know much about autoflowers. You can sprout in containers that large but it is something to do when you have experience.

This cycle will not go well, there is little room for error with autoflower. Most people have issues with new mediums, more so with coco and little experience overall. We have all been there. Do not be discouraged, pay attention and learn as much as you can.

I think i understand what needs to be done now, in stead of waiting for the entire pot to dry out, i need to learn to estimate where the roots are, for now it's easy they just popped out of the sponges, so when the area around the sponge is dry it's time to water.
Sure won't be an easy task

I will never be discouraged nor give up!

Thx for answer

Mikell · Jun 25, 2017

You have a bit of leniency with all that perlite. I would water every 3-5 days or after the pot no longer feels "just watered heavy".

The downside is the medium wicks almost too well and looks moist when it is dry to bone dry. I do not think that sponge will ever look dry.

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

Mikell said:
You have a bit of leniency with all that perlite. I would water every 3-5 days or after the pot no longer feels "just watered heavy".

The downside is the medium wicks almost too well and looks moist when it is dry to bone dry. I do not think that sponge will ever look dry.

Hello,

Yeah that sponge is never gonna dry you've got that right, i stopped watering it a couple of days ago and won't water it ever again, i have a spraycan so i can easily water around it without water touching it.

To get an idea if the pots are dry or not i guess i will have to plunge my hands in it, i see no other way, gonna have to be extremely carefull tho as to not touch/break roots, wish me luck haha

Still not sure what to do tomorrow tho, i'm gonna go get some distilled water asap, but what do i do than..?
They will be exactly 8 days & 12 hours old (since water touched seed*)
Should i first give them a good flush with fresh water to get rid of that tapwater, or just lighly water them..?
Also should i add nuts, they are still all @ first node..?
Maybe best to wait untill they recover a bit at least..?

Thx again for the answers, really appreciate it.

Speed of green · Jun 25, 2017

4 gallons of coco is enough medium to grow a large plant, i havent dabbled in auto's but i doubt they will ever fill out that pot.

I think you will be okay , just be sure to water correctly.

When i have small plants in large pots i start by watering right at the base of the plant when necessary, you want to water just enough to get you through a couple days, as the plant begins to grow you can begin to water more volume each time.

I would mix a small amount of nutrients 1/4 strength .6-.8ec ph5.8-6.0 and just give the root cubes you started in a little drink maybe like 1/2 cup or 120ml, wait a couple days and repeat as needed.

If your roots are just now coming out of the cubes you would probably be safe to step down a pot size without stressing the plant out.

Mikell · Jun 25, 2017

Mix a batch of base nutrient feed @ 0.6EC and water the pot thoroughly.

As mentioned, coco and perlite have no nutrients. Tap water and root supplements provide nothing it needs to produce good growth. When I say water, in coco terms, that means feed. Flushing or watering with plain water is not advised. If you muck up a batch of feed (over strength, pH, whatever), remix it properly. Flushing to correct issues is for mediums with high CEC such as peat. All we do in coco is replace the available root solution.

Misting around the puck is bad practice. Water thorougly every 4-5 days or soon after the pot loses the just watered feel to the weight. Raise feed and watering frequency as you go. After a feed or two of 0.6, rise to 0.8, 1.0, 1.2. You should be watering once a day by the time it is the size of the pot or sooner depending on growth/water uptake.

Seedlings are vigourous. I have not grown an auto from seed in a oversize container but that is what I would do based on on what I know.

For a regular seed I would have depotted into a 0.5-1L. Speed of Green sounds like he's done it with an auto.

Bluntpower · Jun 25, 2017

Great tips again, many thx :bow:

This is the feeding chart i intended to follow, it's the original but all strengths at 1/4 of recommended and in ml
I haven't fully figured out how the EC works tbh..
Is the 0.6EC the sum of ALL nutrients (Power Roots & Pure Enzym included) or just the A&B ones..?
And another question i still haven't found answer to:
Do i still need to add CalMag too on top of all those..?

Jellyfish · Jun 25, 2017

When your plants get bigger, you can put the light a lot closer than 36 inches above the tops. I use ViparSpectra too, and for flowering, the light is only three or four inches above the canopy with no burnt leaves.

Be careful with your eyes. LED's aren't good for eyes, and this being your first grow, you may spend a lot of time just gawking in wonder (we all did the first time, it's okay). Just don't stare at the lights.

Speed of green · Jun 26, 2017

Bluntpower said:
Great tips again, many thx

This is the feeding chart i intended to follow, it's the original but all strengths at 1/4 of recommended and in ml
I haven't fully figured out how the EC works tbh..
Is the 0.6EC the sum of ALL nutrients (Power Roots & Pure Enzym included) or just the A&B ones..?
And another question i still haven't found answer to:
Do i still need to add CalMag too on top of all those..?

Whatever container you are mixing into make sure to leave some extra space to add more distilled water in case the mix is too strong.

for example i will add one gallon of r/o to a five gallon bucket, this way you can stir it vigorously without worrying about it spilling over the sides.

Start with your r/o or distilled in your case.

add calmag to .2ec

then add all the nutrients including your additives, make sure to add them in the specific order the manufacturer requests.

then check your e.c

if the e.c is greater than .6 then add some distilled water to the mix to dilute it down to .6

once you reach the desired e.c, ph your mixture last and feed.

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