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Help me on my grow, what nutes, how does it sound so far?

So I'm going with an indoor grow, growing out a bunch of plants, cloning them, and throwing the clones outdoors. Then some of the plants will be kept and flowered indoors, proceeding with a typical "clone mothers" in veg room to flowering clones deal.

So we've got 100 seeds going in propagation trays, about 50 of them have sprouted. I've got more feminized seeds on the way, as this seems like the fastest way to get female clones to put outside.

The strains that are coming:
Mandala #1 fem
GHS Lemon Skunk fem
GHS A.M.S. fem
GHS The Church fem

The strains that are popping up as we speak:
Mandala Satori
Mandala Hashberry
GH Big Bang fem
Mandala Safari Mix
Nirvana Early Girl
Nirvana Swiss Miss

I want to grow (for the duration of indoors) in a mix of organic soil and coco coir.

Currently everything is under cool-white T-12 floros, 4 tubes. Seedlings are still popping up as we speak, the oldest of them are only 24 hours old or so.

I have a 400 watt CMH kit on the way.

The grow is taking place currently in a closet, which will have to be sealed in the very near future, as the CMH is going to shine waaaay too bright compared to the floros, and I'm going to need and exhaust/intake hole.

Since the closet is only 2.5ft wide, but 13 ft long (currently only using half of it) I'm not too sure as to how to seal it. One thought had been just to create a duct tape wall, and perhaps put a zipper or something in, I dunno.
Part of the problem is that the closet is so narrow, there really can't just be 1 entry into the closet, I'm thinking maybe a horizontal zipper/flap, so that I can access the plants from anywhere outside the closet. The advantage here is that the closet doors can be closed, and it appears to be a normal closet, whereas the extenda-closet is obvious as soon as someone was to enter the room. Though with a ballast sitting outside (though it could be stored inside perhaps), cords running into the closet, and exhaust/intake holes somewhere, we may truly be better off just building the extenda-closet, who knows.

Anyways, lots of work to do here, but doable IMO. Again most everything will be going outdoors, with the remaining plants used for a typical indoor grow.

So I need to pick up a EC/PPM/PH meter, but what nutes should I be looking at using? How does my plan to mix organic soil with coco coir sound? How should I do the mix? (I've been baking the soil off in the oven just in case).

The outdoor side of things has it's own plans, water crystals, organics, etc, but talk indoors with me.
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
All seedlings less than a month old need is a good soil mix. They don't need any nutes.
IMO Female seeds are a ripoff. You stress one of them and it'll hermie on you and pollinate the whole crop.
Burn1
 
BurnOne said:
All seedlings less than a month old need is a good soil mix. They don't need any nutes.
IMO Female seeds are a ripoff. You stress one of them and it'll hermie on you and pollinate the whole crop.
Burn1

sure, but after that month, what am I looking at?

and during the first month, should I be watering with ANYTHING other than straight water?

and what about coco coir+soil, should I do it, or just pure soil?
 
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G

Guest

Help me on my grow, what nutes, how does it sound so far?

With respect, it sounds like you went off half cocked and planted a bunch of seeds without a clue as to what to do next. Don't you think it would have been better to figure out what you were going to do before you actually began?

pedro
:sasmokin:
 
pedro48 said:
Help me on my grow, what nutes, how does it sound so far?

With respect, it sounds like you went off half cocked and planted a bunch of seeds without a clue as to what to do next. Don't you think it would have been better to figure out what you were going to do before you actually began?

pedro
:sasmokin:

:/

I know what to do next more or less, it's simply a matter of "how" or "what way" to do it.

The rush with the seeds is that there's a timeline on how late one can put plants outdoors, and I need to get some solid clone mothers going sooner rather than later.

There are two main projects going on here, which are linked at the hip.

Do I know exactly which nutrient solution to use, no? Could I pick a random nutrient line on my own and do fine with it, certainly. Would I rather ask questions, and find out something solid through here (such as which line to use, and whether or not one really should buy all the enhancers), certainly.

I'm aware that I won't really 'need' any nutrients for some time, in fact, the seedlings really don't need anything for the first 3 weeks, no?

Is this the optimal way to go about things, plant first? No, does that mean I won't be able to make it work? No. My attitude is that catching this outdoor season is a great move, trading seeds and/or clones +time for marijuana isn't a bad deal.

This is not my first grow, though it is my first in 5+ years, and I have never grown commercial, nor outdoors. Nor have I grown more than 1 strain.

However I am prepared to invest the time and money to make this happen. No I don't intend on flowering every single plant in my grow space, given how many I have, a good number of seedlings will be making their way outdoors.

So onto the nutrient solution, which line should I look at, and do I really need enhancers? My concern is that in using 3 different enhancers, I might do more harm than good. So what do you think?

I'm guessing I'll need something like a "sensical" cal/mag product just in case, it seems like a good thing to have.

So this is the organic forum, what is a good nutrient line for a beginner?

I've seen the canna products, earth juice, and more. The enhancers are numerous. If there really isn't an answer to my question, and I can just pick any one of these, then that's OK, but I'd still like to know about enhancers (ie anything other than bloom/grow formulas).
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
^^^ Every outdoor plot is different. Some are rich, some are sandy, some are full of clay, some are acidic and some are just plain shitty and won't grow anything. I'd make sure you get the dolomite lime in there for sure.
Look at the beginner recipes I posted. Try to give the plants what they need. You will gain experience, even if you fail.
Good luck.
Burn1
 
BurnOne said:
^^^ Every outdoor plot is different. Some are rich, some are sandy, some are full of clay, some are acidic and some are just plain shitty and won't grow anything. I'd make sure you get the dolomite lime in there for sure.
Look at the beginner recipes I posted. Try to give the plants what they need. You will gain experience, even if you fail.
Good luck.
Burn1
that has been my attitude all along. For outdoor, the plan is to use a portable soil tester as a basic "check" against highly acidic soil, and then prep soil by digging holes (maybe 1' by 2', 2' by 2', just depends), and retossing that soil with 1lb or so of water crystals (dry), worm casting, perhaps some kelp, and some sort of solid bloom organic, perhaps high P guano, or something like "rainbow mix" bloom seen here: http://www.greenfire.net/hot/F040.html? (4-8 lbs per 100sq ft means I won't have to carry much)

So my indoor plan is this:
Veg plants until they sex (now I might run into issues here) OR get too big to effectively transplant outdoors to my location, this does not apply to feminized strains, or "indoor keeper" strains (plan on flowering indoors). If plants don't sex in time, I'll just have to put them outside, and kill males as they show.

Once plants show sex, (or before if feminized) start cloning. Clones are to be placed outdoors.

At some point, the best looking plants will be moved to the flowering room, and flowering will begin, with a few mother plants kept in the veg room for future indoor flowering through clones, perhaps some clones will be kept as well. I will likely only end up with 1 maybe 2 for some, plants per strain flowering indoors, this is not commercial, this is about variety, and finding which high(s) and plants I really enjoy.

The indoor flowering will likely take place in 5 gal pots.

Currently everything is in propagation trays (little planter cells, 72 per tray), and will be transferred to "18 oz keg cups" (double cup method for easy transplant).

So as far as my indoor flowering goes, and indoor veg (as far as eventually having clone mothers) I am wanting a line of organic nutrients in solution. These will not be used outdoors.

Hence I am wondering which line to choose, and what the deal is with all the enhancers (to me an enhancer is anything other than a typical "bloom/grow" fertilizer), ie what package should I go with.

My plan is to measure my tap water, and assuming it has decent PH/EC/PPM, mix in nutrients as needed (not often if at all until flowering) making sure to maintain low EC/PPM (perhaps using mandala guide in their subforum) and stable PH. Obviously different strains will have different needs, but the main product of this entire endeavor is not marijuana, but experience.
 
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Jon

Member
pedro48 said:
Help me on my grow, what nutes, how does it sound so far?

With respect, it sounds like you went off half cocked and planted a bunch of seeds without a clue as to what to do next. Don't you think it would have been better to figure out what you were going to do before you actually began?

pedro
:sasmokin:

Trial and error is a grower's best friend. Last year I prematurely bought a GDP clone at a dispensary because I didn't want to miss out on the strain. I took the clone and put it right into the garden on April 11th where it flowered until May and then re-vegged.

This year, I saw a beautiful Lavender clone that I wanted in the beginning of March. Without any lights I went ahead and bought the clone because I didn't want to miss out on it. (There are always clones available, just different strains all the time.)

So I bought her and put a 15 watt aquarium light that I shown on her until I got some better lights. Better than puting it out prematurely, right? Live. Learn.

1Love, I’m in the (almost the exact) same boat as you. I have a small half-assed indoor setup with 3 fluorex lights in a 2.5 x 4 area. It’s a wide closet without much depth. There’s more area. Possibly 13 feet, but I don’t use that part of the closet. Like I said, almost exact same situation as you.

I’ll be interested in how you’re going to solve the problem. Right now, I don’t pay too much attention to reflective surfaces or sealing because in the morning, I take the plants outside. At around 11pm to 12am, I bring them back inside for some additional lighting.

I bought about 12 feet of mylar at my local growshop. I’m thinking I’ll just use that to seal the closet with ductape with a flap so I can go in there and tinker around.

Tomorrow night (payday!) I’ll be taking a trip to Ikea to see if there are any do it yourself structures that I can use to make a small grow tent using the structure as the skeleton and some mylar as the skin. The closet setup is ok for now, but actually need to set up a real indoor grow area because I’m going to start my girls flower cycle indoors before I put them out so I can get an early harvest.

I’m going to turn the page back to the beginning of my post and talk about philosophy for a second. The best way to get involved with something you really want to do is to take that first step and force yourself to learn on the fly. That was my philosophy with girls when I was a teenager and I ended up faring pretty well. That was also my philosophy last year with my first grow and I got some unbelievable bud that had my friends salivating for October 2008.
 
G

Guest

Jon:

I've been growing things on my own since I was a kid, almost 50 years ago. I've also lived a pretty full life too now that I'm 60+.

I know more about "trial and error" than most on here having been involved in a number of pure research projects....nevermind all the trials and errors I piled up just living life :))))

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. However, I see SO MANY people on here who clearly haven't thought through what they were doing when beginning a grow. But....maybe I'm just old and out of touch with today's generation(s).

You seen that TV commercial with Dennis Hopper sitting on a sand dune and he says:

"You don't need a tip and a tuck, you need a plaaaannnnnnnnnnnn."

I realize everyone is anxious to get growing, especially new growers. I know I was!! All I'm saying is planning ahead often saves a lot of heartache down the road.

Ilove1earth:

I hope you weren't offended. That wasn't my intention. I wish you luck...and listen to BurnOne. He's another old fart, but a lot smarter than I am and God knows he's more patient than I am :joint:

pedro
:sasmokin:
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The reason I give those recipes in the Beginner sticky is because they're a "tried and true" method to start with. I have ALWAYS had successful grows using those methods.
I have done lots of experimenting and have made lots of mistakes. I can always come back to a point of reference with those recipes and go in another direction. Sometime for the better, sometime not.
Pick a soil mix and a recipe and stick with it for a few grows. Lavender Cowboy suggests you stick with one strain as well until you figure out what the plant likes. That guy always has wisdom. I'm just a student.
Burn1
 
I here ya, the best thing someone can offer is being straight.

It's going to be a rough at times, I have no doubt, certainly aspects of it have been so far, sourcing everything, measurements, construction of the closet.

Still, they aren't really that hard to grow... Most problems come from doing too much, or going flat out OCD on plants in my opinion, but I haven't had a large number of grows under my belt either.

I hear ya though, there's the way I see things going for the indoor flowering, the way I see the room situated, and I have full knowledge that as soon as those seeds popped, a time bomb started ticking, and I'm racing against the clock here to get things up to speed.

Still, I really wanted to catch this outdoor season, and it's a good opportunity to not be lazy.

The mix of strains will be daunting, but likely we're only talking about 5 strains indoors, alot of them will strictly go outdoors. I mean, I have no idea how many different strains are rolled up into one within the safari mix, but for outdoors, I figure if I do them right by prepping the soil, nature will do the rest.

It seems like it's a good bit more popular to use solid nutrients and mix them into the soil than to use liquid organics?

I mean there's nothing stopping me from using a "bloom" organic mix like the one seen here: http://www.greenfire.net/hot/F040.html

would most folks make their soil mix using a product like the one above, and then only add liquid nutrients if direly needed? IE you'd only ever really apply it once? Does that mean you'd transplant before flowering?
 
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it would also appear that most folks like to use a tea, in leu of using a pre-made product.

So if I was wanting to go the "make your own" route, one concern I have to following the "sticky" recipes is that the quality or strength of the ingredients might vary from place to place. I mean, I've found this place http://www.greenfire.net/hot/ALLF.html which seems to carry most if not all of the ingredients listed in this recipe:
Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
Add 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 3rd watering.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

I'd love to do it, but can you suggest a source for all this stuff? Again my concern is that I'm not in a position to tweak the finished product should individual ingredient quality/strength vary, and I'd like to stay consistent to the original recipe.

I take it tea is likely far cheaper than pre-made products...

I can setup a bubble bucket pretty easily.

So where to get the tea gear?
 
I add guano and kelp directly to the soil mix. I use the above ingredients but at a much lower rate than listed above. This is where the trial and error comes into play my friend.
The tea "gear" is as simple as a 5gal bucket and an aquarium bubbler. What you really need to do my friend is read every sticky in the organic section...use the search for your questions and then if you have something specific you are unsure of come back and ask. You'll likely get better responses.
 

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