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Silica in flowering?
- Thread starter maimunji
- Start date
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
First week of flower only.
Otherwise you need to use a grinder or scissors to break the bud up.
Otherwise you need to use a grinder or scissors to break the bud up.
Zen Medz
Member
I have good results using Si up to week 2 of flower. I also foliar apply it with seaweed and neem once a week. Si is immobile and will benefit your plants if applied foliarly.
Doesn't everyone use scissors and a grinder to break their buds up?
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
I don't.
Hold the flower by the stem against the side of the bowl. Gently press the flower against the side of the bowl with your other thumb. Gently twist the stem while still pressing with your thumb and slide the stem (notice I'm using the singular form) out of the bowl.
Press the broken pile of little frosty bits into the bowl with your thumb. Enjoy.
I find silica to be a very over used element with growers.
HughGhasso
Member
I too use protekt up to flush. Maybe i need to reconsider.
MrBungle
Active member
I can see it possibly bumping K too high (one of the more forgiving elements in excess) when added to a complete formula... but what about when KSil is part of the complete formula?
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
If you're unable to gently crush a flower with your fingers and have it break into small fragments, I'd start with the silica in flower. Yep.
HughGhasso
Member
I'm very happy with the quality of my herb but like most growers I'm cheap too. if I can save an additive that means cleaner bud for me and more $ to give to someone else. I've never looked at how long to use it I just added it as part of the routine.
Hmmm, "KSil", I bet "K" stands for the element Potassium and "Sil" stands for Silica. Besides, using Potassium Silica as a plant nutrient is not allowed for "organic fanatics"--but OK for disease protection.
MrBungle
Active member
KSil yup... a pretty commonly used abbreviation for Potassium Silicate at least in the forums I've been part of...
I use KSil from veg til I just use plain water the last 7-10 days of flower
I hope you didnt think i was being sarcastic, I was honestly curious...
I can't see a reason to stop using silica in flower... There are so many benefits, but if there is a real reason other than its not "organic" to stop in early flower I'd like to learn about it
I honestly think the way people use it is not proper and that's why people are so apprehensive when using
I use KSil from veg til I just use plain water the last 7-10 days of flower
I hope you didnt think i was being sarcastic, I was honestly curious...
I can't see a reason to stop using silica in flower... There are so many benefits, but if there is a real reason other than its not "organic" to stop in early flower I'd like to learn about it
I honestly think the way people use it is not proper and that's why people are so apprehensive when using
No problem, just that there are other sources of Si that do not contain potassium that can wisely be used during the flowering cycle. So many people mistakenly think they can obtain Potassium Silicate in dry form (Ag Sil), mix it and then use it for plant nutrition and still be "organic"; Potassium Silicate is on the forbidden list when used for plant nutrition (period).
the disease/pest protective benefit comes from the nutritional benefit potassium silicate gives the plant. Your interpretation of the NOP rules is flawed.
Oh Avenger, why do you make this so easy?
Do we not agree that NOP guidance is provided at CFR §205.601, Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production?
In accordance with restrictions specified in this section, the following synthetic substances may be used in organic crop production: Provided, That, use of such substances do not contribute to contamination of crops, soil, or water. Substances allowed by this section, except disinfectants and sanitizers in paragraph (a) and those substances in paragraphs (c), (j), (k), and (l) of this section, may only be used when the provisions set forth in §205.206(a) through (d) prove insufficient to prevent or control the target pest.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div8&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7.354.2
Then, if we agree on that, then a review of those regulations will reveal that "potassium silicate" (search that term Ctrl F makes it real easy) is permitted under two conditions:
Insecticide §205.601(e).
(2) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1) - the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.
Plant Disease control §205.601(i).
(1) Aqueous potassium silicate (CAS #-1312-76-1) - the silica, used in the manufacture of potassium silicate, must be sourced from naturally occurring sand.
Synthetic substances approved for plant and soil amendments are identified at §205.601(j) which I cut and pasted below. Do you see "Potassium Silicate"?
(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed) - Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids - naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate - chelating agent, dust suppressant.
(5) Magnesium sulfate - allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients - not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products - can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.
(9) Sulfurous acid (CAS # 7782-99-2) for on-farm generation of substance utilizing 99% purity elemental sulfur per paragraph (j)(2) of this section.
And we have the actual NOP Board decision.https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Pot sil technical advisory panel report 2003.pdf
The juice of the document is cut and pasted below:
Concluding remarks
Clearly, potassium silicate is a synthetic because, although the potassium carbonate and sand are mined, they require very high temperature treatment to form potassium silicate, and therefore a significant contribution of fossil fuel or fossil fuel replacement energy.
As a fertilizer, potassium silicate is highly soluble (generally a trait that puts a material in the prohibited grouping) and ‘jolts’ the soil with a rapid release of nutrients, even though the effects of a rapid availability of potassium and silica is not believed to have nearly as profound an impact as other materials such as sodium nitrate (an allowed non-synthetic material, with restrictions).
As a source of potassium or silicate for soil fertility, there are several effective non-synthetic, low soluble alternatives (lack of alternatives can mitigate other prohibited traits). Although synthetic silicates of metallic micronutrients have been allowed, they are not allowed as a source of silica, and probably should remain so: the reason for allowing these synthetic metallic silicates is the lack of acceptable materials, not that they are compatible with organic philosophy. The weight of the above evidence puts potassium silicate as a fertilizer in the prohibited column.
As a fungicide, the same concerns about synthetics are present. However the amounts used are much smaller, there is no ‘jolt’ to the soil and, most importantly, effective alternatives are not available. Unfortunately, there is not convincing evidence that potassium silicate will be even as effective as the alternatives, and its mode of action is not understood. These are important considerations. Sulfur and copper are allowed synthetics because, although they have some non-target toxicity and environmental troubles, they have a well-understood mode of action and breakdown products, have been used by organic farmers for a long time, and are proven effective. Potassium silicate does not have significant non-target toxicities, environmental risks or breakdown products, but does have a poorly understood mode of action, a short history of use, and has not been proven widely effective.
Recommendations to the NOSB:
The substance should be listed as a prohibited synthetic on the National List.
Now, where is the flaw in my interpretation of NOP rules? Or is it.....you?
If you're unable to gently crush a flower with your fingers and have it break into small fragments, I'd start with the silica in flower. Yep.
G `day DC
I like a good generalisation too . lol .
Got any proof other than anecdotes above ?
Thanks for sharin
EB .
your loss not mine buddy(eclipse420?).
I'm sorry you never learned to comprehend what you read.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
Grew without it for over a decade, flowers were always highly frangible. Easily break into tiny, frosty bits of yummy goodness.
Silica scene came around and a couple years ago I played with it. Different times, concentrations, couple of different runs. Use beyond first filling flower res is low-grade to me, hotter/harsher end smoke with tougher flowers. I now use it, where appropriate, and mid-end flower is not it.
Flowers are back to easily broken yumminess.
Why not articulate your position? IMO, honesty and integrity are two things that we can either embrace or....ignore. I am in the "embrace" camp.
Douglas.Curtis
Autistic Diplomat in Training
I'm embracing the fact the both of you are about to go on ignore...
