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Pollen chucking questions

S

Safe Gardener

Active member
Hello guys/gals,

When two different lines are crossed let's say Nirvana Bubblelicious and Nirvana Black Jack. Would those seeds be called an F1? If those seeds are then grown out and crossed what would the result of that be called? Is there any reason not to do this? Thanks

SG
 
who dat is

who dat is

Cave Dweller
Veteran
Yes, F1 cross. If a male and female of that f1 cross were bred together you would have F2s.

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S

Safe Gardener

Active member
When working a cross like this is there a reason not to go to a F5 generation or even F10 ect...

And what about a F1 female and a F2+ male that are both expressing traits your looking for. Is there a reason not to cross those togeather? genetically or other?
 
DerpNerpem

DerpNerpem

Member
F2 male*F1 female is called a backcross, bx1. F5-F10 and such is a double edged sword, recessive traits can become dominant which can be good like those superdank phenos you want, or some bastardly asshole shit like hermaphrodites becoming dominant. Usually by F3-F4 you can find what you're seeking.
 
L

Limeygreen

Well-known member
Veteran
What you're doing is making a polyhybrid, not a true f1 but can be classified as an f1 but a poly hybrid none the less. If you inbreed the lines separate to fix traits where the seeds are stable then you have a parent line (purified line) which when you cross two parent lines you end up with a true f1. None of this really matters if you're having fun and just making seeds for fun.
 
S

Safe Gardener

Active member
Limeygreen said:
What you're doing is making a polyhybrid, not a true f1 but can be classified as an f1 but a poly hybrid none the less. If you inbreed the lines separate to fix traits where the seeds are stable then you have a parent line (purified line) which when you cross two parent lines you end up with a true f1. None of this really matters if you're having fun and just making seeds for fun.
Click to expand...

First and foremost, yes this is just making seeds for me to work with. And yes I am having lots of fun. So far the longest I've had one plant was just over two and a half years. Many cuts to keep it from becoming unruly, and ran it 4 times. Only to decide it wasn't for me. The last I worked was was the aforementioned lines and after a few micro at most people here's level and a couple small batch seed runs I am playing with the progony now.

Are we calling it a polyhybrid because both parents are hybrids themselves? When you said I would need to run the line inbred for a bit to fix some traits are you saying keep a female from the poly f1 and polinate it with male f2+'s to 'clean it up'?
 
S

Safe Gardener

Active member
I realize Nirvana doesn't get a lot of love around here. I first started with their stuff because it is cheap and it's been a great learning experience. A huge bonus is that I don't even remember the last time I bought a bag for my head.

I do have some stuff I bought before Breeders Retail closed up shop and I just hit up Ace on their Black Friday sale. Just homing my skills before I start working with that stuff.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

SG
 
PDX Dopesmoker

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
Limeygreen said:
What you're doing is making a polyhybrid, not a true f1 but can be classified as an f1 but a poly hybrid none the less. If you inbreed the lines separate to fix traits where the seeds are stable then you have a parent line (purified line) which when you cross two parent lines you end up with a true f1. None of this really matters if you're having fun and just making seeds for fun.
Click to expand...

I saw the who dat is post earlier and I wanted to say that some folks would won't like it if you call just any old cross an F1. If you have seeds that are like (A x B) x (C x D) then you're supposed to call it something else if you're properly educated, because the seeds off a true F1 and a polyhybrid will behave differently?
 
Oregonism

Oregonism

Active member
PDX Dopesmoker said:
I saw the who dat is post earlier and I wanted to say that some folks would won't like it if you call just any old cross an F1. If you have seeds that are like (A x B) x (C x D) then you're supposed to call it something else if you're properly educated, because the seeds off a true F1 and a polyhybrid will behave differently?
Click to expand...

In Burbank's world, no, but a true F1 with stabilized parents may be more apt to actually displaying heterosis, the opposite of outbreeding depression if you will. Polyhybrids would seem to gain outbreeding depression, as none of the deletorious traits are been bred away from future gens, just the prettiest and highest Thc are driving the current craze with little stabilization. Heterosis is lost by F2 in a bunch of the elites imho...which is another topic in itself.
 
L

Limeygreen

Well-known member
Veteran
When inbreding a line you keep all the plants that fit the traits you desire then the next generation you select for traits you want until you stabilize it how you want it from seed. When the traits fix (could be around f5-f7) then you have a parent line that has firm traits.

Poly hybrid because they are hybrids yes. There is probably some sort of term to describe f1 of hybrids to make polyhybrids but I am not into breeding terminology so I am unaware of it. For me it's easy to say f1 and poly hybrid but that's me.
 
Oregonism

Oregonism

Active member
Limeygreen said:
When inbreding a line you keep all the plants that fit the traits you desire then the next generation you select for traits you want until you stabilize it how you want it from seed. When the traits fix (could be around f5-f7) then you have a parent line that has firm traits.

Poly hybrid because they are hybrids yes. There is probably some sort of term to describe f1 of hybrids to make polyhybrids but I am not into breeding terminology so I am unaware of it. For me it's easy to say f1 and poly hybrid but that's me.
Click to expand...

You are right in your thinking on polys, they dont have firm traits, thats the main distinction, that could be good or bad, depending on how you look at it...

Safe Gardener said:
When working a cross like this is there a reason not to go to a F5 generation or even F10 ect...

And what about a F1 female and a F2+ male that are both expressing traits your looking for. Is there a reason not to cross those togeather? genetically or other?
Click to expand...

Something to think about, a lot of parent lines will be worked down the line then backcrossed, worked some more down a line etc etc....lots of variations, which is different then say c99 which is bx5....

Safe Gardener said:
I realize Nirvana doesn't get a lot of love around here. I first started with their stuff because it is cheap and it's been a great learning experience. A huge bonus is that I don't even remember the last time I bought a bag for my head.

I do have some stuff I bought before Breeders Retail closed up shop and I just hit up Ace on their Black Friday sale. Just homing my skills before I start working with that stuff.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

SG
Click to expand...

Nirvana has faded a bit because of stateside banks imho, but stock originally came from the Positronics break up, Kc Brains appeared after that as well. Underappreciated really.
 
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