Why go 24 hours lights on??

spurr · Nov 12, 2010

Japanfreakier said:
I'm a grower, only thing I care about is the weight. End of story. get over it. I'm not going to read your boring links because I already know I get more with 24/7. What don't you get about that? Not rocket science.

Because you don't "know you get more with 24/7". You are ignoring all the factors that affect yield more than hours per day, like I wrote about. Plants do not use hours per day for photosynthesis, they use photons per day. Thus you can get the same, or better yield with less hours per day if your photons per day (DLI) are the same or higher due to higher PPFD.

It's not rocket science that yield is not a good measurement tool (unless my caveats are meet, such as no including water weight of buds in the total weight of buds). Nor is it rocket science that hours per day doesn't matter, it's the photons per day that matters!

For the record, I gave very few links and references in this thread, so you don't need to read "boring" links to educate yourself, you can simply read what I posted

Either read what I wrote and learn, or don't...it's up to you. But don't keep suggesting your are correct, because you are not.

I am just spinning my wheels, I tired, oh well. see ya around.

Japanfreakier · Nov 12, 2010

spurr said:
Because you don't "know you get more with 24/7".

It just eats you up that in fact I do know doesn't it. It's sad that more and more we see pot boards with people linking stuff and making claims that never hold up. Experience is better than any link and my experience tells me I get more weed with 24/7. End of story. You would too if you can get over your links.

spurr · Nov 12, 2010

I have the whole field of plant physiology, tons of research and my own experience over the past 15 years of growing to back me up, and my own analytical testing too. You only have anecdotal evidence, with that you cannot know, or prove, 24/0 is better than 20/4 or 18/6, etc. Like I wrote many times, it's about photons per day, not hours per day! Which is worth more, what I provide in this thread or what you provide? hummm... (that's a rhetorical question btw, no need to answer it)

What bothers me is you being so obstinate and obtuse. Like I wrote, I posted very few links and references, in this thread.

Your lesson for today is that plants care about photons per day, not hours per day in veg as long as it's > ~16 hours.

legalizeDK · Nov 12, 2010

spurr
dude get over yourself.

Japanfreakier · Nov 12, 2010

spurr said:
I have the whole field of plant physiology, tons of research and my own experience over the past 15 years of growing to back me up, and my own analytical testing too. You only have anecdotal evidence, with that you cannot know, or prove, 24/0 is better than 20/4 or 18/6, etc. Like I wrote many times, it's about photons per day, not hours per day! Which is worth more, what I provide in this thread or what you provide? hummm... (that's a rhetorical question btw, no need to answer it)

What bothers me is you being so obstinate and obtuse. Like I wrote, I posted very few links and references, in this thread.

Your lesson for today is that plants care about photons per day, not hours per day in veg as long as it's > ~16 hours.

I guess you impress yourself a whole lot don't you. lol, I still get more weight when I use 24/7 during veg than when I use less hours of light during veg. I don't really care why that is, just know that it is for me, and I encourage anybody who is curious to try it and see the difference for themselves. I'm not trying to prove shit you see, just sharing my experience (which is backed up by most in the thread by the way). So run along and go see if you can't impress somebody cause you aren't doing it here.

statusquo · Nov 12, 2010

Japanfreakier said:
It just eats you up that in fact I do know doesn't it. It's sad that more and more we see pot boards with people linking stuff and making claims that never hold up. Experience is better than any link and my experience tells me I get more weed with 24/7. End of story. You would too if you can get over your links.

Sigh =/ Experience is necessary but he's right about the lack of actual quantitative data regarding a lot of this stuff. Much of it is based on here-say, loose 'scientific method', and general lack of knowledge of what is actually good for a plant (even in a controlled study where it was shown that yield was increased with 24/0 that isn't necessarily the only variable we are all concerned with).

Japanfreakier · Nov 12, 2010

I'm not saying that it is, somebody else pointed out that there is a point of diminishing returns with 1k lights because of cost. The question of the thread is why do people use 24/7 and I use it because it gets me to the height I want to flower at faster and I end up with more weed. I use 400 & 250 watters by the way.

guambomb813 · Nov 12, 2010

Its sad that most threads here that have potentially good information from peoples experiences/studies are always derailed because you guys keep bickering like you're entire growing experience has set in stone that you are correct. Unless you have every single variable possible controllable(which some of us here have lots of money invested and could very well have every variable controlled) then you can never really know who's more correct.

Spurr - you speak of factors that can effect yield for japan but you can't say that through your tests between the different light cycles that you have had every other variable possible controlled and consistent. Or you might but I'd like to know what your controlled variables are.

Japan - #'s are everything in the end thats what we grow for (most of us haha) but without controlling all variables from grow to grow you can never scientifically know. Your main points were that you get to the height you wish faster with 24/0 vs any other time but you can't know this for sure without at least considering the fact that you might have certain variables that could have possibly effected your growth.

Can't we just post our experiences without too much debate as to who's more correct or not because nobody's running under the same conditions so for some the 24/0 can seem to increase growth and for others can seem to make no difference. Your both probably correct in certain ways but to act as though "your science is wrong" or "your experience is wrong" is just redundant.

Last year I did try 24/0 throughout the veg and they did seem to enjoy the constant light, I know i did no need to worry bout timers! -.- Can't say that it was better but I can say it didn't make them any worse! Then again I have no real comparison because I have never had 100% consistent variables, I have alot of controls but only for the main stuff. Due to electricity and the amount of lights I run I couldn't afford to keep running the cycle.

I think the purpose of this thread is to share experiences with the light cycles you've used mainly, then to help others share some info, but to do so just for the debate is ridiculous and not fun to follow along just to watch you guys bicker about who's more right then the other....

-.- happy growin

statusquo · Nov 12, 2010

guambomb813 said:
Its sad that most threads here that have potentially good information from peoples experiences/studies are always derailed because you guys keep bickering like you're entire growing experience has set in stone that you are correct. Unless you have every single variable possible controllable(which some of us here have lots of money invested and could very well have every variable controlled) then you can never really know who's more correct.

A lot of spurr's sources are .edu sites...I think I'll go ahead and trust university horticulture departments lol. I'm sure the information on these .edus were derived from much more controlled settings than any of us on these boards, including me haha.

Noobian · Nov 12, 2010

SumDumGuy said:
Hi thcrefugee,

By leaving lights on 24/7 you guarantee closer internodal spacing. Plants stretch in the dark and I do not like stretch. Aside from the EXPLOSION in growth my reason for the 24/0 is to achieve much smaller spacing while increasing overall structure in a shorter amount of time.

INDOORS YOU ARE GOD!

Yup came here to say that. One of the reason's I use 20/4 is cause that schedule decreases stretch and internodal distance, something that is very precious to growers in a small enclosed cabs. The more darkness you provide the more stretch you are going to have so if you want to keep you girls as short as possible for the longest time possible you should give them more light. A little stretch is good though, but not too much

statusquo · Nov 12, 2010

Noobian said:
Yup came here to say that. One of the reason's I use 20/4 is cause that schedule decreases stretch and internodal distance, something that is very precious to growers in a small enclosed cabs. The more darkness you provide the more stretch you are going to have so if you want to keep you girls as short as possible for the longest time possible you should give them more light. A little stretch is good though, but not too much

I assume you mean 24/0? I feel like the claim that 24/0 results in shorter plants goes against the claims proponents have been making about faster/explosive growth with 24/0. Thoughts?

spurr · Nov 12, 2010

FWIW,, plants grow the most during night and very early morning hours; this is proven many times over.

What affects stretch the most is low light levels, DIF, and red to far-red ratio intracanopy.

P.S. I got your PM and will respond today.

spurr · Nov 12, 2010

Japanfreakier said:
I'm not saying that it is, somebody else pointed out that there is a point of diminishing returns with 1k lights because of cost. The question of the thread is why do people use 24/7 and I use it because it gets me to the height I want to flower at faster and I end up with more weed. I use 400 & 250 watters by the way.

That is what I thought, see this post of mine on page 4. The PPFD of your lights is low (even if not using PPFD as meter^2, say using foot^2), thus you need longer days to provide higher DLI vs. someone who uses provides (high) level of PPFD (ex. ~1,000 to ~1,500):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3999275&postcount=56

What it sounds like to me, is you maybe do not provide enough irradiance, so you need to provide the lower irradiance for a longer time period (hours) to provide high DLI for better growth. You might want to try increasing your irradiance and reducing your day hours...I bet you would be surprised at the result in better growth and health, with the same, or probably better yield due to the plant getting a dark period.

The fact is, plants need a night time to carry out light-independent reactions. Cannabis can grow without a night, but it does better with a night.
If you provided the same DLI to two gardens: one with a night of 4-8 hours, and one with no night, the garden with night would be heather, grow better and possibly yield more (it certainly won't yield less). These are facts of plant physiology...you can't claim otherwise with any degree of correctness.

Hammerhead · Nov 12, 2010

I use 20/4 this give me what im looking for

spurr · Nov 12, 2010

statusquo said:
A lot of spurr's sources are .edu sites...I think I'll go ahead and trust university horticulture departments lol. I'm sure the information on these .edus were derived from much more controlled settings than any of us on these boards, including me haha.

Most of my info comes directly from peer-reviewed and published academic studies in respected journals. I have well over 500 studies on my HDD; many studying cannabis (as drug bio-types and non-drug bio-type). But I also make extensive use of some .edu sites and info.

The Phoenix · Nov 12, 2010

Yeah guys, dont discount what spurr is saying IMO.

Hey, Japan would need to run those 400 & 250 watters 24/0 to get the performance that a 1kw bulb will crank out in 18/6, and it will do it with more plants stuffed under it also.

If you guys want to see real performance, move up to a high blue spectrum 1kw bulb for your veg. You can run 24/0, 20/4, or 18/6, and it will out perform those small bulbs.

oval · Nov 12, 2010

Removing for Removal

hotfootelliot · Nov 12, 2010

So I have a question. I see a lot of post's talking about leaving the light on a 24 hour cycle for veg so they don't have to worry about light leaks. My question is if in the veg cycle and the light is ok to be on for 24/7 then if u run a 18/6 schedule would light leaks really matter during the 6 hours of dark if it is a veg tent?

superpedro · Nov 12, 2010

The main reason i use a dark period when vegging is to maintain the plants circadian rhythm. They stretch less and goes into flower faster if you make sure the middle of the dark period, and light period

, is kept at the same time when adding the extra hours for flowering.

How well plants can make use of all 24 hours of light very much depends on your grow conditions.
If you use you lamp to keep your plants warm, and the temperature drops when it gets dark, the plants won't convert the stored starch into growth anyway.
If you are using a few t8's for vegging, the plants won't have anything to eat while "sleeping".
Using high wattage light and an optimal climate in the dark period, makes for 24 hours of growth and a lower electrical bill.

Japanfreakier · Nov 12, 2010

guambomb813 said:
Japan - #'s are everything in the end thats what we grow for (most of us haha) but without controlling all variables from grow to grow you can never scientifically know. Your main points were that you get to the height you wish faster with 24/0 vs any other time but you can't know this for sure without at least considering the fact that you might have certain variables that could have possibly effected your growth.

Been growing over 8 years straight with multiple gardens, thousands of plants. Yes I can know. I don't need to know any science (of course I do know a lot of science) to know what I know. Kind of like a that show "Time Warp" when they look at the world's stone skipping champion. He doesn't know the physics around why his stones skip the furthest, he just does it. Saying a grower has no idea what's changed or hasn't changed in his garden is just silly.

Why go 24 hours lights on??

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