Cheap, High Quality, Huge line up....Did i say Cheap?

hey everyone

ive been hearing lately a lot of ppl complaining about the high price of their nutes, and with a large number of bottles to buy, it can get costly.

i my self switched to Advanced Nutrients last run, i baught all the additives and base nutes came out to 3500 for one run....and i have to say i wasnt super impressed with the yield or quality.

well i have the solution to the "high price" nute companies.

as every one knows liquid ferts are basically dry ferts that have been diluted and liquified with h20, then bottled and sold. so why not buy the dry ferts? theyre easy to mix, easy to store, and ultimately cheap.

quality and npk is where most ppl have the discussion about which nute is better. i hear AN talking all the time about how a quality nute should be chelated and how expensive the chelation process is. and they boast how they have the highest % of chelated nutes in theyre line up.

well i would like to introduce you guys to Jacks professional fertilizer line up. its made by J.R.Peters, a trusted fertilizer company making nutes for small house plants to greenhouses.

jacks professional is made for professional greenhouse applications, they can be mixed to creat custom npk, and use only the highest grade minerals and a lot is chelated.

heres the website http://www.jacksprofessional.com/

heres the pdf of the line up http://www.jacksprofessional.com/products.pdf

i really urge some of you to check it out, you may save alot of money and you may find it gives a very high quality end product


just thaught id mention that a 25 lb bag of this stuff goes for 75$ in my area and is good to last me 2-3 runs, so its a huge $$ saver

heres what i got and use, but they have a full range of ferts for anyones desired needs

miracle grow tomato food, maxi bloom, peters, scotts,, all the same crap and they all work once dialed in.

IwannatokeNbone said:

miracle grow tomato food, maxi bloom, peters, scotts,, all the same crap and they all work once dialed in.

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Shhhh....you'll ruin the secret...

I was just talking about this to a new grower. I can't tell the difference between Miracle Grow and A/N Sensi a/b! To a plant...food is food... That's my limited personal experience.

Cheap, High Quality, Huge line up....Did i say Cheap?

I really like the green light line of products. Cheap and works great but like has been said they work once dialed in. Green light super bloom has chelated iron. My buds have been great so far and I wouldn't expect anything less in the future.

IwannatokeNbone said:

miracle grow tomato food, maxi bloom, peters, scotts,, all the same crap and they all work once dialed in.

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ive never seen miracle grow used in any professional applications, jackspro is formulated for professional greenhouse crops, it says right on the label, for professional use only

Pure MaxiBloom from start to finish is all you need. Less than $20 for 2.2 pounds of it. How can you go wrong with that?

Kush Farmer said:

Pure MaxiBloom from start to finish is all you need. Less than $20 for 2.2 pounds of it. How can you go wrong with that?

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Is that what you use from start to finish?

It is now in my soil/coco grows. I use only MotherPlant A+B, which is a little pricey but goes a very long way, on my mothers. I go a little more complex on my hydro.

Sorry to double post.

Check this thread out.

My god this so sad. It really reveals how little the cannabis growing community knows about plant nutrition. You all really need to look up a guy called Justus Von Liebig and the law of plant nutrition that was named after him. If ANY ELEMENT is in low supply, that will be the limiting factor. Then you need to look up some guys called Arnon and Stout and their laws of essentiality. Then you guys need to look up the latest list of essential elements. Ill save you a little effort (in no particular order):

Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Molybdenum, Manganese, Copper, Cobalt, Nickel, Zinc, Chlorine, Sodium, Iron, Boron.

Then you need to figure out which of these are in the product, not only in the guaranteed analysis, but also in the derived from list. Unfortunately, (here's another piece of important info), when a product is sold strictly for soil use and makes no claims for hydroponic use, there are different registration requirements. If you market for hydro, you have to give more detail on whats in the product. In this case, little info is given. Not to mention the micro nutrient concentrations are crazy low, especially in comparison to the N-P-K levels. Let's go through this list on this crap. It contains:

Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium, Boron, Manganese, Copper, Iron, Molybdenum, Zinc

.........9 elements........ wow...... missing 7 ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS and the OP is advising people to give this to their high value crops? This is meant for COMMERCIAL USE in SOIL that is also AMENDED with ADDITIONAL PRODUCTS to make up for what this product is LACKING. It is also meant for EASE OF USE because it is not practical for a farmer with 100,000 acres to be mixing up three part solutions. It is also meant to be CHEAP which is why it is lacking so many elements. Every element added to the mix costs the manufacturer more money.

THIS CONTAINS NO MAGNESIUM, SULFUR, COBALT, CALCIUM, ETC..... AND YOU THINK THIS IS GOOD TO USE ON YOUR PLANTS?

Im sure some bonehead will come along and say that the tap water contains some of those elements but it is nowhere near sufficient unless your starting tap water is at like 800ppm. Not to mention you have NO IDEA what ratio those nutrients are in and you are getting a bunch of other stuff that is bad for your plants like flouride.



Think before you post. If you have no idea what you are talking about then please keep your mouth shut..... or.... your fingers off your keyboard I should say.

Yes advanced nutrients is a rip-off, yes most products are snake oil, but that doesn't mean there is no difference between miracle grow or jacks or shultz and a high quality hydroponic fertilizer. I just put up a post explaining how Dyna-Gro seems to be the best product in terms of bang for your buck. You get all 16 essential elements in a one part solution that is super concentrated. Of course it is still more expensive than jacks professional garbage but its the most fairly priced high performance nutrient out there IMO.


If you don't believe me in terms of the shortcomings of any powder fertilizer like jacks, dump some of that into a recirculating hydro system with RO water and see how your plants do. Death and deformity will be the result. Unless your plants are getting those missing elements from some other source these products WILL NOT WORK. PERIOD.


You HAVE TO give your plants all the essential elements. You DO NOT HAVE TO pay $3500 dollars on garbage from a company that rips people off. You SHOULD do some research and figure out what you are getting for your money. If you are buying solutions that are 3-2-4 for example, with maybe another 3% in micronutrients, you are getting a product that is 88% water...... Some dutch master and House and Garden products are up to 97% water..... THATS RIGHT..... MANY OF THE PRODUCTS YOU ALL GO TO THE STORE AND PAY HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS FOR ARE UP TO 97% WATER.... WHY?


BECAUSE THE NUTRIENT COMPANIES MAKE MORE MONEY


Yes there is a limit to possible concentration in a liquid solution, BUT, There is nothing that needs to be that weakly concentrated in order for it to stay in solution.
The companies just want to make more money. People need to think about concentration, not just whats on the price tag.


FINAL WORDS:

It is not a good idea to use products like this on your plants. They are not meant for what we are doing.

Most nutrient companies rely on uneducated customers to continue purchasing their watered down, incomplete products. If people would spend 20 minutes a day doing some research we could put all of these rip off companies out of business.

Every time someone posts false information, hundreds of people read it and spread that info to thousands more. PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST. DO SOME RESEARCH AND MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT OR YOU ARE PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR LOWERING THE OVERALL LEVEL OF ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE THAT EXISTS IN THE GROWING COMMUNITY.

If anybody is interested, I have a post up about a Dyna-Gro recipe that I use with phenomenal success. They are the only company that has figured out how to get all 16 essential elements into a one part solution and they made it super concentrated on top of that. I stand by the stuff 100%.

If anyone has questions on other products and how complete they are please post them up. We can check off of the bullshit products one by one.

to the guy above, i was not advocating the k-trate to ppl, i was advocating the jacks professional product line, if you look at the pdf you will see they have a whole line up with diff levels of npk as well as diff levels in micro/macro, you really misunderstood the reason for this thread.

its for ppl like me with a large grow room with large quantity of nutes used, where they will actually see the $$ savings each crop.


jacks pro is made by scotts/peters, a trusted company that has been around for decades, they came out with the jacks professional line up for greenhouse growers who produce comercial crops for sale, like tomatoes, lilys, ect.....and from what i know every greenhouse in my area uses jacks pro.

and yes they are meant for what ever application you would like, including weed, or tomatoes, or peppers........get the point, they are high quality nutes that live up to their name for a long time, they would not be used by professional greenhouses if they did not live up to par.

joe fresh said:

to the guy above, i was not advocating the k-trate to ppl, i was advocating the jacks professional product line, if you look at the pdf you will see they have a whole line up with diff levels of npk as well as diff levels in micro/macro, you really misunderstood the reason for this thread.

its for ppl like me with a large grow room with large quantity of nutes used, where they will actually see the $$ savings each crop.


jacks pro is made by scotts/peters, a trusted company that has been around for decades, they came out with the jacks professional line up for greenhouse growers who produce comercial crops for sale, like tomatoes, lilys, ect.....and from what i know every greenhouse in my area uses jacks pro.

and yes they are meant for what ever application you would like, including weed, or tomatoes, or peppers........get the point, they are high quality nutes that live up to their name for a long time, they would not be used by professional greenhouses if they did not live up to par.

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Wow man, I tried to be civil and give you a scientific explanation for why those products suck and your refuse to accept it. KEEP USING YOUR GARBAGE PRODUCTS THEN MORON. ILL JUST KEEP GROWING HIGHER QUALITY PLANTS AND OUTYIELDING YOU EVERY TIME.



PEACE

I think putting the correct information out to others is just as good as the next guy, but the way in which you go about doing it is all wrong. Name calling, CAP TEXT, etc are all good way to make yourself look like a fool. In other words, no one is going to listen to the guy that resorts to these childish ways.

I'm not saying anything joe fresh posted is wrong. Just pointing out that how this guy goes about convincing people is all wrong.

SmilinBob said:

I think putting the correct information out to others is just as good as the next guy, but the way in which you go about doing it is all wrong. Name calling, CAP TEXT, etc are all good way to make yourself look like a fool. In other words, no one is going to listen to the guy that resorts to these childish ways.

I'm not saying anything joe fresh posted is wrong. Just pointing out that how this guy goes about convincing people is all wrong.

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Bob, listen man. Im gonna explain one thing. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am stating scientific fact. I will go about doing that in WHATEVER WAY I FUCKING CHOOSE. If you dont want to accept my factual info based on how it was presented...... well.... TOUGH SHIT. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WILL BE MISSING OUT, NOT ME.

How will I be missing out? I do this because I love it, and for personal use. I haven't complained, and neither have my leafy friends. indoors or out. cannabis or otherwise.

But you've got it all figured out. I just don't see the point in replying to someone the way you do. You make yourself look silly. It's irritating, and sorry if I'm wrong here, but very much resembles a troll.

Have fun trolling and advocating Dyna grow.

cannabomber said:

Bob, listen man. Im gonna explain one thing. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am stating scientific fact. I will go about doing that in WHATEVER WAY I FUCKING CHOOSE. If you dont want to accept my factual info based on how it was presented...... well.... TOUGH SHIT. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WILL BE MISSING OUT, NOT ME.

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I won't enter the debate of which nutes work the best.
But let me tell you, if this is your way of stating scientific fact, you'd better make it a bit more formal, if you want people to listen to what you have to say (or else simply don't post). What you are saying makes sense, but why get pissed off because someone is being honest to you and telling you that there are better ways to express yourself? Debating ideas is a good way to reach a consensus, but stating facts in a semi aggressive way is not. You may not care what others think or if they are even going to listen to you, but I think they don't care if you outyield them either. So in order to avoid everyone ignoring others' point of view, I think being open to debate is the best way to bring something constructive to the discussion.

To be honest I kinda agree with cannabomber

First scotts owns miracle grow there a huge company look into it .So the same folks that make jacks make miracle grow .
The fact you spent 3500 last run on AN and now are basicly suggesting a mass produced scotts product is disturbing .

Comparing sensi a-b to miracle grow is absurd.I have used both in soil and there is a big difference in yeild and taste. That said I think the 2 plus system is a waste of money. But using the cheapest mass produced you can find is also silly .

Plants don't care what price you payed for the salts you feed em, as long as the salts are horti grade and the npk is correct and the 7 key trace elements are present in chelated form, then it can be used to grow weed. I just buy the raw salts in bulk form and mix up my own nutes, costs me about a twentieth of what it would cost if I used bottled products. I don't believe in fancy boosters, just the correct npk for the stage of growth and a constant supply of trace elements.

Bozo is absolutely right. Jacks is miracle grow. Peters is owned by another member of the same family. They are all the same shit.

I will acknowledge that my brash approach may have been a little harsh but I cant believe that its 2010 and there are still people on here recommending we use miracle grow. I think a better question is why you are more concerned with my posting style than with the information contained within. If you think I look foolish thats fine with me. I think you are the fool for being unwilling to accept information.